BoozeRS05 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Good feeling finishing that job, wasn't sure I had it in me, but it wasn't that bad either truthfully. Lots of experience around these cars, and between you guys at LGT, youtube and nasioc all the info is right there to find. With 14k miles, my JmP turbo looks basically brand new on the exhaust side. So that's nice. Next is to sell the specB, get my garage space cleaned up, take the heads off the motor, and get my wagon back from my dad's and into it's rightful garage spot. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) It can be done. Its just a pain. Its a little easier when you and the car are on flat ground and not standing over a set of rollers (2 feet off the ground) on a dyno. Release fuel pressure so you dont get a squirt in the eye. Swapped injectors 1/2 and 3/4, misfires still most prominent on #1 (with more across the board as well). I'm completely stumped now... I wonder if it's electrical? When I was pulling the LH side injector shield, I heard a massive amount of clicking from the fuse box (key turned to "OFF"). On further discovery, the ground connected to the shield will trigger some relays as soon as it's connected. I initially zip-tied it to a nearby bracket, but that gave a weak connection, and the ECU seemed awry in that case ("Run mode system check" message, no crank, coolant temperature pegged, etc.). I relocated it to one of the bolts holding the TGV to the block and all of that went away, but same symptoms as yesterday. Edit: Pulling the cyl1 coil pack connector and cranking the car made seemingly no difference. Could fuel starvation (low pressure from clogged filter/dying pump) cause this sort of issue, where cyl1 shows the largest problem? I would assume not. Edited June 23, 2020 by solidxsnake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanyb505 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) Haven't given my car much real love in the last few months. I've given it attention, but apparently just attention isn't its love language. Need gifts for that. To that end, I've been doing a lot of internet window shopping for suspension, steering, brakes, and some visual items. "Babe what if we reduce the upcoming house down payment..." The shopping progresses Posted in the suspension/brake section as technically none of this was done to my 4th Gen Legacy today. For that, I parked it outside, again, and put a piece of cardboard down to catch the steering rack leak. Edited June 23, 2020 by seanyb505 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabo Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Turns out my head gaskets were fine and the issue lied somewhere else. Needless to say lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Turns out my head gaskets were fine and the issue lied somewhere else. Needless to say lesson learned. How deep did you get before figuring out the root cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabo Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 How deep did you get before figuring out the root cause? Not too deep..... New radiator caps and right before burping it realizing two coolant lines were reversed (re-installed wrong ). Fixed the issue, burped the system and began testing. 6 psi, 11 psi, 18 psi, 24 psi (x4) and the issue never resurfaced. Coolant temps also never went over 199*F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4th gen only because 2 days in, I was considering trading in my wagon. have been driving a 2020 outback while the wife's wrx is in the shop for warranty work. Finally got a chance to drive my test route after mucking with the controls to turn off the driver aids. seats are really comfortable and the memory feature includes the mirrors. The driver settings unfortunately don't include the seat/mirrors, but does set up most of the comfort features. Cruising is pretty quiet. The stop/start feature is nice, but very sensitive to brake pedal movements. Spirited driving is a tire-howling experience at low speeds. The seat is almost useless for holding you in place. Otoh, the abandoned lot next door provided no impediment. Because its a dealer loaner, I didn't test to destruction. interior space was what finally nixed it as a replacement for my wagon. Had to return a 10' 4x4. It barely fit even with one end nudged up against the windshield on the dash. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Yeah, driving a new car is dangerous... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinkus Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 i sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylew Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Not a 4th gen but was my first car. 6 years ago I bought this '96 outback, that taught me so much and got me hooked on the wagon life. One of the rear subrame mounting locations was really rusted as well as the pinch welds were caving in (not able to pass inspection anymore). It was time for the send off to the junk yard, but not before some dicking around. Don't worry my 05 GT Wagon is very much safe from this fate edit: more fun in the link Edited June 26, 2020 by jaylew For your viewing pleasure Wagon is LIFE! - 265,000 miles and climbing Unofficial Build (Restoration) Thread Steering Rack Rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Not a 4th gen but was my first car. 6 years ago I bought this '96 outback, that taught me so much and got me hooked on the wagon life. One of the rear subrame mounting locations was really rusted as well as the pinch welds were caving in (not able to pass inspection anymore). It was time for the send off to the junk yard, but not before some dicking around. Don't worry my 05 GT Wagon is very much safe from this fate Awesome pictures. How was the landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylew Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Surprisingly plush. These pics are the highest I was willing to go before chickening out. It was actually smoother the faster I went because landing was on all 4, but at lower speeds it nose dived hard Wagon is LIFE! - 265,000 miles and climbing Unofficial Build (Restoration) Thread Steering Rack Rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Sgt.Gator launched the race wagon after the brakes failed at orp years ago. There were no pics mid-flight, but now I understand why the radiator support is all bunged up and the frame has a bit of a twist. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Swapped injectors 1/2 and 3/4, misfires still most prominent on #1 (with more across the board as well). I'm completely stumped now... I wonder if it's electrical? When I was pulling the LH side injector shield, I heard a massive amount of clicking from the fuse box (key turned to "OFF"). On further discovery, the ground connected to the shield will trigger some relays as soon as it's connected. I initially zip-tied it to a nearby bracket, but that gave a weak connection, and the ECU seemed awry in that case ("Run mode system check" message, no crank, coolant temperature pegged, etc.). I relocated it to one of the bolts holding the TGV to the block and all of that went away, but same symptoms as yesterday. Edit: Pulling the cyl1 coil pack connector and cranking the car made seemingly no difference. Could fuel starvation (low pressure from clogged filter/dying pump) cause this sort of issue, where cyl1 shows the largest problem? I would assume not. You have the coil wires running to the proper coils, yes? They can be accidentally swapped. Air, fuel, compression, spark, timing. 5 components to a misfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 So...... Anyone want to buy a 500WHP Spec B with a potential headgasket issue? What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabo Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 What happened? False alarm.... In my rush to get the car done for retuning I reversed the turbo coolant reservoir lines By the way I immediately started wishing you were still in business. Almost jumped the gun and bought a closed deck to use with the V25B cylinder heads that I'm still holding onto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) You have the coil wires running to the proper coils, yes? They can be accidentally swapped. Air, fuel, compression, spark, timing. 5 components to a misfire. Yup, for sure. Black connector towards the firewall. In any case, it wouldn't have idled so well initially if they were swapped, right? Air and timing are certain. Going to do a quick test for fuel in a bit (spray carb cleaner or similar into TB hose), and if that's not it, will check compression just because. Don't know what to think if I don't have compression on a brand new built shortblock, or how I'd have screwed up the assembly process so badly that I'd lose compression due to e.g. poor HG sealing. I'll be checking spark when I get a friend over by pulling coils/plugs and holding the ground electrode against some metal while my friend cranks the motor with the fuel pump unpowered (and accel pedal to the floor to disable the FI for good measure). If it does turn out to be fuel, I assume next step is to check fuel pressure in the engine bay. Will rent a kit from AutoZone, but first I might just pull the fuel pump and give the pump/filter a quick looksee. I wonder if the pump just went out from having a miniscule amount of gas in the tank over the last two times the car's been driven. I hope it is just the fuel pump, I've been meaning to replace it with an AEM320, and I'd much rather do that job than pulling the manifold and cleaning all the fuel lines . I have a little hope that's the case, since when I pulled the injectors, all four rail/injector spots dumped plenty of fuel, so the fuel is at least getting to all four injectors (of course this says nothing about the pressure, though). Edit: Whelp. Bad news. Cyl1 has absolutely zero compression. Starter motor doesn't even slow down with the compression tester plugged into cyl1. Cyl 2-4 all showed almost exactly 130psi. So somehow I managed to break something within the first 200ft I drove the car? UGH. Edited June 24, 2020 by solidxsnake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Yup, for sure. Black connector towards the firewall. In any case, it wouldn't have idled so well initially if they were swapped, right? Air and timing are certain. Going to do a quick test for fuel in a bit (spray carb cleaner or similar into TB hose), and if that's not it, will check compression just because. Don't know what to think if I don't have compression on a brand new built shortblock, or how I'd have screwed up the assembly process so badly that I'd lose compression due to e.g. poor HG sealing. I'll be checking spark when I get a friend over by pulling coils/plugs and holding the ground electrode against some metal while my friend cranks the motor with the fuel pump unpowered (and accel pedal to the floor to disable the FI for good measure). If it does turn out to be fuel, I assume next step is to check fuel pressure in the engine bay. Will rent a kit from AutoZone, but first I might just pull the fuel pump and give the pump/filter a quick looksee. I wonder if the pump just went out from having a miniscule amount of gas in the tank over the last two times the car's been driven. I hope it is just the fuel pump, I've been meaning to replace it with an AEM320, and I'd much rather do that job than pulling the manifold and cleaning all the fuel lines . I have a little hope that's the case, since when I pulled the injectors, all four rail/injector spots dumped plenty of fuel, so the fuel is at least getting to all four injectors (of course this says nothing about the pressure, though). Edit: Whelp. Bad news. Cyl1 has absolutely zero compression. Starter motor doesn't even slow down with the compression tester plugged into cyl1. Cyl 2-4 all showed almost exactly 130psi. So somehow I managed to break something within the first 200ft I drove the car? UGH. FACK!!!! Not what I wanted to hear. I was not following your build process. If you have questions PM me. I might be slow to answer, but I will answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) False alarm.... In my rush to get the car done for retuning I reversed the turbo coolant reservoir lines By the way I immediately started wishing you were still in business. Almost jumped the gun and bought a closed deck to use with the V25B cylinder heads that I'm still holding onto. Pooh happens. I too make mistakes. Glad you got it worked out. I am missing the shop right now. :icon_sad: Edited June 25, 2020 by m sprank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 FACK!!!! Not what I wanted to hear. I was not following your build process. If you have questions PM me. I might be slow to answer, but I will answer. Thanks, I appreciate it. Tried the compression test again after squirting some oil in cyl1, same result. A leakdown test will tell me if it's block or heads, so that's my next step (before offing myself over the frustration ). I really have no idea what could have happened... was "running fine" (as seen in the video I posted a couple days ago), but by the first stop sign, it seems cyl1 was gone. Shortblock was fresh from a somewhat-local machine shop that has tons of EJ experience, and the heads were re-built by a local Subaru performance shop (which likely used this same machine shop for the machine work last year). As far as I'm aware, I'm SOL in terms of any sort of "warranty," which is understandable from the shops' perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I hope it's just an unadjusted valve on your cyl1... Had to pull the engine from my middle son's 2010 OB when it wouldn't start because compression was not there. Adjusted the valves and it started from the first crank. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Valves are shimmed, not adjustable. But, the incorrect bucket could have been used. There are several scenarios that run through my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Thanks, I appreciate it. Tried the compression test again after squirting some oil in cyl1, same result. A leakdown test will tell me if it's block or heads, so that's my next step (before offing myself over the frustration ). I really have no idea what could have happened... was "running fine" (as seen in the video I posted a couple days ago), but by the first stop sign, it seems cyl1 was gone. Shortblock was fresh from a somewhat-local machine shop that has tons of EJ experience, and the heads were re-built by a local Subaru performance shop (which likely used this same machine shop for the machine work last year). As far as I'm aware, I'm SOL in terms of any sort of "warranty," which is understandable from the shops' perspectives.Maybe your #1 injector was stuck open and washed the cylinder? Drain the oil and see if it's diluted with fuel. There just can't be too many things that could have happened on a new rebuild and heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Valves are shimmed, not adjustable. But, the incorrect bucket could have been used. There are several scenarios that run through my mind. If that was the case, it would be sheer coincidence that it cropped up now IMO. The heads have about 100ish miles or so on them from when they were rebuilt last year and used on my old short-block (which had excessive blowby, low compression on #2/#4, suspect ringlands but never confirmed). The shop that did the work last year rebuilt the heads, assembled the longblock, and ordered new buckets as necessary to correctly set valve lash after torquing the heads to the old shortblock. They have a solid reputation for their attention to detail, so I don't think they screwed that up. And I know I didn't screw up the position of the buckets from the disassembly of the old shortblock or the assembly of the new one. I didn't check the lash while assembling the new motor since I assumed they should be independent of the shortblock once the head is torqued down (followed the 30-60-90 sequence for the standard ARP head studs I'm using). Maybe your #1 injector was stuck open and washed the cylinder? Drain the oil and see if it's diluted with fuel. There just can't be too many things that could have happened on a new rebuild and heads. Perhaps I'll look in to that. That said, I'd have expected some gnarly fuel trims if that were the case (I was hovering around -4% on AF Learning A before pulling out of my garage, which is about where it was with the same tune on the old motor). Edited June 25, 2020 by solidxsnake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Could you have dropped a valve guide? Don't think it could be a reversed head gasket. Piston rings? Injector doesn't impact compression I'm trying to think what might have dislodged/moved/broke in a couple min that could kill the compression. Have you tried a borescope into #1? Probably worth checking valve lash on #1 cause you never know? Edited June 25, 2020 by Infosecdad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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