Exhaust upgrades (and possibly turbo?)

Alright, so I have some upgrades out of the way. So far no gofast upgrades. I have got my windows and lights tinted, installed LED headlights (so I don't have to keep dealing with my headlights burning out) and upgraded my brakes. Outside of the tinting I have been letting what breaks dictate what I upgrade. The tinting was more of a aesthetic and quality of life upgrade. That is pretty much still where I'm at as my exhaust is in need of replacement. I had it patched up to get through the winter and is currently held together with clamped on metal PVC.

 

I took my car to a reputable shop in the area to have them get it up on a lift so I could find out what I needed. Turns out every one of my gaskets from the tips to my manifold (they tell me it is actually called a "converter assembly"?) are rotted and worn through. The shop was unwilling to work on my exhaust due to it using flanges. I was surprised as I thought most modern exhaust uses that. I expressed this to them and they confirmed but told me that mine was rusted in places that they would likely have to fabricate parts for and they weren't willing to do that. They recommended going elsewhere and I wasn't going to try to convince them otherwise. I have another shop I'm going to check out today that I called and they said they would be happy to do it. On the plus side they are a performance auto shop.

 

So I am going to have to consider what I want to get. At bare minimum I will be getting a cat back exhaust but likely need a new up pipe and down pipe as well. The shop I had my car at said my manifold gaskets seem fine but the flanges on the exhaust side are in bad shape.

 

I'm kind of playing that dangerous "while I'm at it" and "since I'm already replacing" game in my head and the dollar signs just keep going higher. I'm considering replacing my turbo as well as I believe I am hearing shaft play in it currently. It is the stock turbo and I don't like it. I have already replaced it once under warranty (that alone paid for the warranty) and it started making the sound that I believe is from shaft play only a year after replacement. Part of me says that it is better to spend the money now and replace it while everything else is getting replaced and save some money on labor then to wait and have the turbo blow on me and possibly cause engine damage. The other part of me says that I may be thinking a bit overzealous. Not sure what part is the devil on my shoulder and which is the angel.

 

I have done some research on exhaust and I like the looks, sound and reputation of Invidia Q300 exhaust but am open minded to other suggestions from experienced posters here. I don't want to deal with a loud low drone as I drive as this is my daily driver but like a nice throaty rumble when I am doing some "spirited driving". As for the turbo I am looking at going with a VF52. I'm a firm believer in if it is broken that it should be upgraded rather than replaced. I don't really know what I am getting into though and looking for help avoiding pitfalls and making sure I get all the right parts.

 

Anyone have any good links for full manifold back exhaust solution (potentially including turbo)? Any recommendations other than what I listed? Any suggestions on an expert tuner nearby after I get this work done? Should I look at replacing my manifold as well? Are headers suggested for these cars?

 

Oh... and should I start a build thread at this point? I do plan on a few more upgrades to follow.

Main question: What is your budget? :lol:

vf52, for that, you'll want to replace the catted up pipe with a catless one.

 

You'll want a 3" catted down pipe.

 

You'll need a Cobb AP or a lap top and cable for a custom tune.

 

http://www.tuningalliance.com is the best Tuner close to you. He's tuned my vf52. You can tell him I sent you, he can sell you what you'll need. Added benefit of buying from the Tuner.

 

He got me the Q300 exhaust on my Spec B. With a catted DP the car is nice on long drives. That same exhaust on my catless wagon was to loud.

 

You don't need a header.

gkinslow: Always the big question, right? I'm hoping to keep it under $2000. Think that is doable?

 

Max Capacity: I thought tuners generally had the AP, cable and hardware. I need my own? Even if I'm not doing the tuning myself?

 

So catted DP makes the exhaust bearable. That had been my plan anyway, catless up, catted down.

Catless UP will be cheap especially if you source a used one from a later model LGT or STI.

 

You won't get quality headers within that budget but you shouldn't need them anyway.

 

The AP is on you to provide if you want to go that route, and is the easiest route to a tune if you are just entering the world of tuning. AP, UP, DP, CBE for $2k? Possibly if you buy used or don't get the absolute best parts.

Nah, not getting used parts.

 

The tune is likely going to wait until after I get the exhaust installed. So it is more like UP, DP, CBE and possibly VF52 for <$2k?

You will want to tune immediately after changing DP or turbo. UP and CBE can be changed without tuning.

 

Personally I'd get a used UP or DP in good condition. My new GS catted and ceramic coated DP was north of $700 if i remember correctly.

 

My CBE cost $1100. It all comes down to personal preference and budget IMO.

 

You will have to buy the VF52 used on that budget. I believe a new IHI vf52 is $1400-$1700.

Well, from what I am finding I can get the CBE for around $700 new. The VF52 seems to vary in range between around $400 to $1100. I have to be missing something on that. Why would they vary that much in price?

 

I don't know the diameter on the Invidia DP but the one listed on their site is $827.00. Their catless UP is $223. Weirdly it doesn't appear that they sell their CBE on their site as it is just labeled with "coming soon". But I can find it elsewhere as posted above.

 

Do you have any links for the parts you are referencing?

http://www.grimmspeed.com/downpipe-catted-08-14wrx-08-sti-05-09lgt/

 

https://www.importimageracing.com/products/hks-silent-hi-power-catback-exhaust-subaru-legacy-gt-2005-2009?gclid=CjwKCAiAoNTUBRBUEiwAWje2luxergU5P4f5pKqhExH32A9YYMPs9Wrg1U_mFWqypc34zp4-Ux4DhxoCvkEQAvD_BwE

 

 

The difference in the vf52 price is manufacturer. IHI vf52 is the OEM brand. Anything else is cheap chinese garbage.

When you figure out what you want, make a list, contact www.tuningalliance.com buy your parts from the Tuner you want to tune your car.

 

Like most vendors he can get you anything you want. Email him let Mike know I sent you.

 

 

There really is a benefit from buying from the person that is going to do your tune. As I said before, he also happens to be the best if one of the two best Tuners for these cars.

Oh, thank you for the link on the Grimmspeed DP. I'll probably use that as it is a better price than what I found. I bought one of their master cylinder braces when I had my brakes done (as well as upgrading my master cylinder to a 17/16ths with brake booster out of a WRX).

 

Ok, so I want an IHI VF52 then. I'll look around at those but right now it is looking like I am going to need to wait on the turbo as that increases the price beyond my current budget. It shouldn't matter as the exhaust should fit either, right?

I'm not sure what fitment you are asking about.

 

If it is DP to CBE it will depend on what you buy. The GS is 3" so the CBE would need to be 3" or you'll need an adapter/reducer to get down to 2.5" or 2".

 

Grimmspeed also sells the adapters should you need one.

 

Note: I'm not affiliated with GS in any way, but I have and like several of their products.

gkinslow: Sorry, I was asking about the fitment of turbo to the exhaust parts that connect to it. The stock turbo and VF52 both connect the same from my understanding so swapping the turbo out later after getting this exhaust work done shouldn't be a problem, right? The CBE that I was looking at is 3" so it should hook right up to the Grimmspeed DP that you linked.

 

I have news by the way. The shop just called me back after assessing the work. They are happy to do everything except replace the UP as that deletes a cat and legally cannot do it due to emissions laws. I don't have a place to work on my car and it is still pretty crappy weather here in Michigan. I also don't own floor jacks or ramps. If I end up needing to do this work myself I may have to buy them and just wait for winter to pass, though. Right now I can't think of another way to go about it. No shop in my area will put that pipe on. Maybe I can find a mechanic to do it off the books. Not sure how to approach that question.

 

They also checked out the turbo while they were in there. They said it was working fine but the sound I was hearing could have easily been that. Instead they think the sound was more likely air escaping through the holes left from bad gaskets on my exhaust flanges.

 

The mechanic suggested headers. I asked about if the manifold is functionally sound as is and he said that it was but would need new gaskets on the exhaust facing end. I stated I would prefer to keep the manifold as everything I have heard is that going to headers doesn't represent an upgrade in power, efficiency or sound on these cars. They are fine with putting everything else (basically just the CBE and DP) on the car. I'll have to figure out getting the UP on myself...

 

Max: I'll take you up on that. Wont hurt to at least see what they can offer.

Correct your stock turbo and the vf52 will connect to that same GS DP.

 

I would think any smaller shop would do the UP. The 08-09 Legacy GT didn't have a cat in that pipe so I don't see the issue.

 

You will want to address that asap as that cat has been known to send pieces of itself into your turbo and destroy pretty much everything. Which is why Subaru deleted it in the later models.

Huh. The later models DIDN'T have the cat in the UP? That is surprising. I didn't know that. I'll bring that up to the shop. Maybe that will go towards convincing them that this is really not just a sound and performance upgrade but is needed for reliable functionality as well.

 

It isn't a big shop. It is actually a performance shop too so I'm a little surprised that they wouldn't do that work. Their name is Performance Car Care LLC. I've heard good things around the area so thought I'd give them a try.

 

Max: I left a message for Mike by the way. Hopefully he knows you by "Max Capacity from the LegacyGT forums". If not send me a PM.

If you have a choice, I would do the up pipe, vf52, down pipe and cobb before the exhaust. You'll get a bigger gain in performance and fun factor. Currently I'm running a stock exhaust on the wagon. There is not a big HP gain from a cat back exhaust.

 

Thanks for reaching out to Mike. He has a real job, so he may be a day or so before he responds, he is a busy guy. One of the problems of being in demand.

 

Just to reaffirm, you do not need headers on these cars.

 

You have come to the right place. Ask us before you spend your money. Most of us have been through what your doing.

 

My wagon is still on stock injectors, the vf52 has over 108,000 miles on it and zero shaft play, at 21psi when it was dyno tuned by Mike back in Aug 2011. The car is a blast to drive every day.

 

My biggest complaint about Mike's tune...the car runs so well I hate the thought of selling it...I'm also having a hard time convincing myself its time to replace it...because its so much fun to drive.

Mike will definitely know who you were referring to. Lol

 

I can't remember if they lost that cat in 07 or 08. My the catless UP from my 09 is sitting in my spare bedroom. AKA parts store room.

Max: I have to do my exhaust. My current exhaust is literally falling apart.

 

Regarding my current stock turbo: They also checked out the turbo while they were in there. They said it was working fine but the sound I was hearing could have easily been that. Instead they think the sound was more likely air escaping through the holes left from bad gaskets on my exhaust flanges.

 

The cost of the turbo upgrade puts this above my current budget. I'll get to it but my current turbo is working fine so that gets back burnered for now.

 

F replacing your LGT! Drive that baby forever. Hell, you may want to look into the laws for common law marriage for it. Why the hell would you want to replace it?

 

gkinslow: Hang on... did you just say that you have a catless UP sitting around collecting dust? Hm.... would you consider selling it to me?

Also have a gently used vf52 that came off my car in favor of a larger turbo.

 

Been meaning to make a fs thread for all my spare parts for a while now but I'm lazy.

 

PM inbound.

gkinslow: Check your messages.

My brother lives in Lansing! I'd love to see your GT sometime. Go for a cruise or something.

I just ordered the parts from Rally Sport Direct. I got the Invidia Q300 catback and Grimmspeed high flow limited downpipe (with all stainless steel parts). I also ordered the extra gaskets I'll need for the uppipe to turbo and manifold to uppipe. I'll be getting the uppipe and VF52 turbo from gkinslow later today or tomorrow.

 

I'm now getting past the depression from spending money phase and into the giddy excitement of having a great sounding performance exhaust and better turbo. I'll keep you all up to date on how the install goes.

 

Any advice for me or the technician on install? I'm going to have him check my banjo bolts while he is in there. This entire job with parts and labor is likely going to come just over $2k which was right about where my budget was. If everything goes well with the install I'm likely going to be very happy with this upgrade.

Don't forget - you need a tune - and Mike @ T/A only deals with Cobb - so you'll need an Access Port to make that happen - didn't see any accounting for those items - but I would not install the Downpipe or VF52 without getting the car tuned!!!!

 

Access Port= ~$700

E-tune = ~$250 (I think that's T/A pricing?)

So hopefully you have a little extra for those items or just put on the exhaust for now until you do have the budget....

 

EDIT: Also you should be aware of a few additional items that will force you to leave some HP on the table and may become issues over time:

1 - I would plan for an upgraded fuel pump - Deatschwerks DW65C is good drop in option to handle the increased flow of the VF52

2 - Your TMIC will eventually blow out the plastic end tanks... You should plan for an aftermarket TMIC in the future (GrimmSpeed makes the most recommended - but it's $1K item...)

3 - You don't need them - but Bigger Fuel Injectors will also help to allow the car to maximize the HP gains for the VF52 - Mike@ T/A tunes plenty of cars with and without them - so talk with him on planning for those as desired

4 - Make sure you have the Banjo Screens removed from the oil lines - My car just had an issue where I thought the shop took them out and another shop found them to be improperly installed causing Check Engine Lights related to sensor readings... And they can easily clog the oil path right up - and lead to blown turbos... Since you've already had one blow - I would ensure they are removed all together.

grovlet: I do plan on getting a tune not long after the install. I don't think I'll be going to Mike though as he is too far away and I don't want to do it myself. I have a guy in Detroit that is experienced and did a mutual friend's tune so I will probably be going to him. It wont require me to buy my own access port that way either.

 

1. I actually had my fuel pump replaced when I bought the car. Had a leak at my tank and they had to do some work there so they just did it then. It was all warranty work. If I feel like I need the extra fuel then I will keep this in mind.

2. My current TMIC is in good shape and as I'm not tracking my car I don't see the need of having more ample cooling needs in my near future. However, if it breaks then I will definitely upgrade.

3. I'll probably get to the fuel injectors the next time I do plugs and wires.

4. Banjos are getting done when I have my exhaust work done. They might already be removed.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the upgrades though.

Depending on mileage you should have the plugs changed every 60,000 miles. I made it to 73,000 once before I got a CEL.

 

Your stock tmic will not last very long with the vf52 at boost, at least do BarManBeans upgrade.

 

Make sure the Tuner does a Base map not a real time map. I don't know that much about that end of the tuning process, but you my want a tritrax cable to download the Tuners Map from your lap top.

 

You can find out more in the Tuning Forum below.

 

I'm not good with computers so I want with the Cobb AP.

 

If you upgrade the injectors later, you'll need a new Map, a Tuner can email you the map and then you upload it to your ECU with the cable.