samuel082799 Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 I am really curious to see how this turns out as the stock brakes on the OBXT are trash and the LGT brakes aren’t much better.I have a lowered OBXT so I got the tiny brakes, and it doesn't stop as good as it accelerates [emoji23] Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) I'm working on a kit to make the Brembo 17Z (04-06 Touareg and others) work for the LGT/Subaru hubs. Fits the STI 326 mm OD rotor. The caliper does not bolt up, it needs a bracket and a small amount of grinding on the hub/caliper. I'm designing the kit to fit under 17's. Let me know if anyone has questions! I'm also looking at a solution for 18" wheels using a 350 mm rotor and either 17Z or 18Z calipers. 18Z calipers are meant for a 350 mm OD rotor, compared to 330 mm on the 17Z. cheers Edited August 6, 2020 by Neal Cassady 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 I'm working on a kit to make the Brembo 17Z (04-06 Touareg and others) work for the LGT/Subaru hubs. Fits the STI 326 mm OD rotor. The caliper does not bolt up, it needs a bracket and a small amount of grinding on the hub/caliper. I'm designing the kit to fit under 17's. Let me know if anyone has questions! I'm also looking at a solution for 18" wheels using a 350 mm rotor and either 17Z or 18Z calipers. 18Z calipers are meant for a 350 mm OD rotor, compared to 330 mm on the 17Z. cheersGlad to see someone actually making progress on it. What year sti are those rotors from, and are they 5 by 100? Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2004 and 5x100, as previously covered. 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Neal Cassady What about a possible rear caliper fit as well? That would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Not doing anything on the rear, factory LGT or STI 2 piston Brembos give relatively decent F&R bias (close to factory to not affect ABS etc) and maintain pedal feel. As well the handbrake complicates things. A 4 piston caliper in the rear is going to be a lot more piston area and I don’t know that even upgrading to a STI 1 1/16” BMC would be sufficient to maintain good pedal feel and travel. My goal with this kit is to have equivalent performance to STI 4 piston Brembos, maintain close to stock pedal feel and bias, with the option to improve using the STI BMC, have 6 piston S402-esque looks, at a much lower cost compared to buying even STI 4 piston Brembos, and signifcantly less than VA STI 6 piston or S402 6 piston Brembos. I also want it to install with minimal modification (though some minor Dremel work will be needed), have proper pad coverage, fit under 17s and weigh less than the factory 2-piston sliding caliper. At the track, the factory LGT brakes with good pads and some brake cooling are quite good. This is more of a looks upgrade than anything. 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackobxt Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Unless you have an outback, then it’s a world of difference. Pretty interested in seeing this unfold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-tracy Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I am interested in a set of brackets as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 2004 and 5x100, as previously covered.Ok, for some reason I thought the rotor was smaller. My bad. Also idk if you looked at the Evo thread I linked earlier about this brake swap, he elongated the holes on the caliper so it could bolt up. From the picture it doesn't seem that far off. Do you think you can get a measurement of how far off the bolt pattern are? If the holes only need to be slightly elongated like the Evo swap there may be no need for a bracket and still have plenty of meat on the caliper ears Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) A simple bracket or plate that allowed the best angle to get the most even surface area would be the best route, especially if that caliper is threaded, if its not then its a lot trickier. If the caliper holes had threads you could easily make a simple bridge plate and put two bolts in it. I can't see a nut fitting back there. Who knows hard to say without seeing it face to face. The other route you have to round a hole or use a smaller bolt and and a nut. Maybe something like a bridge with a cylinder in one end that slides into the caliper hole and a hole on the other end to bolt into the knuckle, and have it bevel around the caliper section that overlaps the knuckle also covering the outer hole of the knuckle as well would work. Probably a task for some 3d cad nerd Edited August 7, 2020 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 A simple bracket or plate that allowed the best angle to get the most even surface area would be the best route, especially if that caliper is threaded, if its not then its a lot trickier. If the caliper holes had threads you could easily make a simple bridge plate and put two bolts in it. I can't see a nut fitting back there. Who knows hard to say without seeing it face to face. The other route you have to round a hole or use a smaller bolt and and a nut. Maybe something like a bridge with a cylinder in one end that slides into the caliper hole and a hole on the other end to bolt into the knuckle, and have it bevel around the caliper section that overlaps the knuckle also covering the outer hole of the knuckle as well would work. Probably a task for some 3d cad nerd [emoji38]I believe the 17z calipers are not threaded, with a bracket design I don't think it would be to hard to tap threads into the caliper hole. I'm still curious to see if elongating the holes would work, it seems to have worked pretty well for the Evo guys(I know it's not the same car but it doesn't look like the holes are that far off on our cars either) Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) I think a mock up bracket could easily be welded up as a proof of concept. I just need to get my hands on some calipers Edited August 7, 2020 by samuel082799 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 Just checked my junkyard website and a 2005 Touareg V8 just got added today so I'm going to go first thing in the morning and hopefully it still has the calipers Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) Elongated the holes won’t work, it puts the caliper too close to the centre of the hub and poor pad coverage. I mocked it up in CAD as an early concept, too close to edges for comfort and it wasn’t worth the modification effort. Generally poor design to have a slotted/oversized hole like that on your brakes. The 17Z holes are not threaded and are meant for an M16 bolt. You could maybe tap the hub but again the elongated holes had very marginal material left. The kit is not quite a straight forward nut plate, but that’s essentially the concept. I’ll add some more detailed photos tomorrow. I’ve test fitted 3D printed versions of the brackets, just haven’t had time to source proper prototypes and then do the first batch of parts. Edited August 7, 2020 by Neal Cassady 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 So car was added August 6th today is the 7th I went to the junkyard as soon as they opened and the damn Calipers were already gone. Idk how they are gone in less than a day. It seems like someone who probably lives closer than I do is pulling them as soon as they come in. There are guys that go there to look for tires everyday, I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of them. Idk if I'm going to be able to get any unless I get lucky Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Check out car-part.com You can enter your zip code and see inventory at nearby yards and often they will ship if they’re further afield. May not quite be as cheap as $25 a caliper, but could probably get a pair for under $200. 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Here are some CAD images of how the kit fits together, the spacers are needed to get the caliper centred properly on the STI brake disc. Upper caliper ear is sleeved from to fit an M12 bolt to match the OEM Subaru caliper bolts (although lengths are different). Lower caliper ear hole is enlarged and an eccentric bushing inserted to allow it to use the lower ear on the Subaru hub, but maintain proper pad coverage. It is possible to install the caliper without this eccentric bushing, however pad is no longer concentric to the hub (see last 2 attached images comparing the pad position on the rotor). As well, some data on the bias/piston area (all values are approximate): Front: OEM LGT, Rear: OEM LGT, 72.2% front bias, 24.7 kg (front & rear caliper + rotor, for one side of vehicle) Front: 17Z + STI Rotor, Rear: OEM LGT, 74% front bias, 5% increase in piston area, 22.6 kg Front: 17Z + STI Rotor, Rear: STI Brembo, 75% front bias, 1% increase in piston area, 24.9 kg 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 8, 2020 Author Share Posted August 8, 2020 Here are some CAD images of how the kit fits together, the spacers are needed to get the caliper centred properly on the STI brake disc. Upper caliper ear is sleeved from to fit an M12 bolt to match the OEM Subaru caliper bolts (although lengths are different). Lower caliper ear hole is enlarged and an eccentric bushing inserted to allow it to use the lower ear on the Subaru hub, but maintain proper pad coverage. It is possible to install the caliper without this eccentric bushing, however pad is no longer concentric to the hub (see last 2 attached images comparing the pad position on the rotor). As well, some data on the bias/piston area (all values are approximate): Front: OEM LGT, Rear: OEM LGT, 72.2% front bias, 24.7 kg (front & rear caliper + rotor, for one side of vehicle) Front: 17Z + STI Rotor, Rear: OEM LGT, 74% front bias, 5% increase in piston area, 22.6 kg Front: 17Z + STI Rotor, Rear: STI Brembo, 75% front bias, 1% increase in piston area, 24.9 kgThat looks really good, I'm wondering if you could weld the tab onto the caliper to make it one piece . I would feel alot better about it's rigidity that way. Do you plan on selling these when you get them figured out? What software are you using? Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Which tab/spacer are you referring to? Welding could be an option for end users, however not something I would do in the kit as it isn't necessary with the clamping forces. With the way the kit uses one of the OEM hub ears and has a very small span between the up mounting point and the hub, its not hanging off of the bracket along like a lot of custom brake brackets. I will likely do a small run of extra kits since there will be a minimum order to get parts for myself. Custom front brake lines are needed too and I've contacted Techna-Fit about doing a run of these once I'm closer to install. Example of random bracket where both caliper mounting points are separate from the hub and only supported by the adapter bracket: 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted August 8, 2020 Author Share Posted August 8, 2020 Which tab/spacer are you referring to? Welding could be an option for end users, however not something I would do in the kit as it isn't necessary with the clamping forces. With the way the kit uses one of the OEM hub ears and has a very small span between the up mounting point and the hub, its not hanging off of the bracket along like a lot of custom brake brackets. I will likely do a small run of extra kits since there will be a minimum order to get parts for myself. Custom front brake lines are needed too and I've contacted Techna-Fit about doing a run of these once I'm closer to install. Example of random bracket where both caliper mounting points are separate from the hub and only supported by the adapter bracket:I was talking about these ones, welding the new ear to the old ear so it would be like a solid extension of the caliper. Stoptech stainless steel braided lines won't work? How far out do you think you are from a finished product? I would be interested in buying one of the timing works out. It looks like you got a pretty good setup going Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I love science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulwaffle Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Awesome work. Any plans to run structural analysis on the final design? Should be pretty straightforward given you know what the peak brake torque should be, roughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Cassady Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Yes, already have ran some FEA. Since one mounting point goes through the hub and adapter bracket and the upper mounting point is very close to the hub mounting point and is sandwiched to it with the adapter and an oval washer that both upper bolts go through, the adapter bracket is under very little stress. I’ll get some more detailed images up of that upper “sandwich”, easier to visualize compared with just a description. 2006 Legacy GT Wagon - Regamasters, Evo X Recaros, STI 6MT, Brembo 6-Pots (in progress) @regashiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Any updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel082799 Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 I haven't had any pop up in the junkyard yet, so I'm still waiting Sent from my SM-G770U1 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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