Tehnation's Ballin on a budget rebuild!

1/8" NPT is very close the metric thread in Japanese engines. A few wraps of teflon pipe tape and you'll be fine.

 

Remember you don't bury the threads when working with NPT. Just snug it up.

So after some time to think. I forgot about the first fiasco when I installed the motor the first time and the head was cracked and flooding my oil pan with coolant. The car started and ran for a bit with the rotating assembly possibly soaked in coolant. Needless to say, running on coolant and oil probably started the damage which lead to the timing going off from the bad rod and causing the issue with the tensioner. Either way I think that's what started the damage. Edited September 22, 2020 by Tehnation

I'd call it a Hicksta moment. But the damage is a bit beyond his $ threshold

I see uniform damage on all the main bearings, I pried off the bad bearing from the crank it pointed towards improper oiling. Starting the fresh motor soaked with gunk = no bueno. In hindsight you assume the block would be good, but the key thing is I didn't realize the leak until after getting it to start and run under such bad conditions.

 

Note to self, check dipstick before and after you pour in your fluids. I filled the oil before the coolant and didn't check after. I didn't realize the issue until my dipstick shot out along with oil/coolant gunk while it was running. Simple things....

 

I was originally planning to try and wire in a oil pressure gauge I had purchased for 20 bucks into one of the tgv ports which I deleted, to be recoded to show oil pressure through tgv values. But screw that, doesn't look like I have that luxury especially now that I'm running the Cobb AP, and really need to monitor everything.

 

So, while my block is out, and I can easily run things through the firewall what other gauges should I get if any? Boost can be read from ecu? Or is a mechanical gauge better? Any other gauges people recommend?

 

I got this guy Innovate part#3913 does oil temp and pressure, all in one kit.

 

https://www.flatironstuning.com/innovate-mtx-d-dual-gauge-oil-pressure-temperature

Bringing my stuff to another shop, the expensive guys with the big boy equipment. It's gonna cost me 300 to balance rotating assembly, 120 to hot tank the block halves, another 80 if I want to get it honed(I bought a flex hone, so I may do it myself, just needs light hone), and another 80 per head for full inspection(includes checking for contamination etc.) so 160. So 580 without hone and 660 with the hone.

 

I just bought all this crap to clean and hone the block myself..... hmmm maybe I will just have heads inspected and rotating assembly balanced. I don't mind putting in a couple hours work to save me a couple hundred.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Tehnation

be sure they open all the galleries in the heads to check them. If they hot tank it, they'll do that too.

 

I hot tanked everything and then put it all in the sonic cleaner for 3 days. Because if 15 minutes is enough, 72 hours is perfect.

Can you hot tank heads that are already built? I was trying to avoid having it rebuilt.

Can you hot tank heads that are already built? I was trying to avoid having it rebuilt.

 

built? you mean all the plugs installed? You can hot tank anything in any condition (ask me how I know, then ask how many hours I spent cleaning up).

 

If you leave all the plugs in, you risk contamination when you put it back together. Its only a couple tools to get them out and cleans everything out.

 

I used the parts cleaner first, then hot tanked, then sonic cleaner, then power washer. I might be an idiot but it's clean now. Having access to all of the above made it simple. If I didn't, I'd still pay to have it done.

 

If you have any work done, I'd have them hot tank it after they finish. There's alot of material in a head or block after machining. My idiot shop was assembling the heads with abrasive powder still on the ports when I stopped by for a surprise visit. We had a discussion. It sort of got resolved. I don't go there anymore. They eventually moved out of town. win/win.

Lol!

 

No, I meant built as in valvetrain still installed. If they have to tear down the heads, then money needs to be paid, and then again to put it back together. Basically rebuilding the heads, which I am trying to avoid. If you can drop the complete cylinder head in the tank I would be game, but if they need to tear it down to the bare head then....

 

Also I just got all my parts, the new crankshaft doesn't have an alignment key/pin on the front, the stub used to align the oil pump and crankshaft sprocket. Wtf, do I need to order that, or should it have come with the new crank?

wtf.... a 2 dollar part.... why not just include it with the 300+ dollar crank and add 2 dollars, retarded subaru.... this is the dumb sh** that pisses me off. Doesn't need to be installed, they could just tape it to the crank.

 

Woodruff Key

Subaru Part # 804505060

Edited September 26, 2020 by Tehnation

He's just trying to tell you the same thing I told you.

 

Your heads have oil galleys. These oil galleys dead end multiple places on the head.

 

The oil galleys in the head are very small and easily fill with debris.

 

You had a bearing failure. Your head oil galleys are most certain to have bearing debris.

 

If you don't clean them right you are putting your engine at risk. We're trying to help you so you don't have to do this again (for a third time).

 

You don't have to completely disassemble the heads. You can just take the cams and buckets out. Just label and organize.

Galley plugs to replace if you have B25 heads. These are all of the oil galley plugs and coolant galley plugs. A D25 head may be different. Yes they are expensive. No, they can't be reused (at least the small ones can't).

 

 

5x for each head: 15027AA132

 

1x for each head: 11051AA170

 

3x for each head: 11051AA081

in order to pull the heads, you have to disassemble half the heads anyway.

I think what he's concerned with is having to remove the valves and having to get new valve stem seals and generally doing a full rebuild on the head to have it hot tanked.

 

 

I think I have full set of valve stem seals here (new, came with my master gasket kit) If you need them, you can have them.

I understand the oil galleys, that's not the issue, I can pull all the plugs and flush it out etc. but the valves, springs etc. are the issue like viscous stated. At that point hot tanking or galley plugs are a moot point because I would just be getting the heads rebuilt and that's all included anyway. I will just have them inspected then take it from there. Most of the work in the head is the work for the valves , valve seats, springs , retainers, etc. Cams are like 4 or 6 bolts, hardly any effort. Edited September 27, 2020 by Tehnation

valves should be fine though considering oil doesn't really flow there.

valves should be fine though considering oil doesn't really flow there.

 

unless you forget the valve guides

Galley plugs to replace if you have B25 heads. These are all of the oil galley plugs and coolant galley plugs. A D25 head may be different. Yes they are expensive. No, they can't be reused (at least the small ones can't).

 

 

5x for each head: 15027AA132

 

1x for each head: 11051AA170

 

3x for each head: 11051AA081

 

is there a replacement parts list for rebuilding heads? I've always farmed it out, but doing my own this time.

Why would you replace all the caps? The allen key screws I can understand but the big chunk of metal caps? Its just a big bolt, I would put that in the overkill category, a new bolt just has a coating of sealant, which isn't hard to do if you have loctite, sealant, or just simple pipe thread. I'm soaking all my bolts, pistons and misc in carb cleaner, one night soaking and they come out squeaky clean. Edited September 27, 2020 by Tehnation

Why would you replace all the caps? The allen key screws I can understand but the big chunk of metal caps? Its just a big bolt, I would put that in the overkill category, a new bolt just has a coating of sealant, which isn't hard to do if you have loctite, sealant, or just simple pipe thread. I'm soaking all my bolts, pistons and misc in carb cleaner, one night soaking and they come out squeaky clean.

You're right. The 170 and 081 *could* be reused with the proper thread sealant. I am always in the do it right, do it once category so I replaced those. The proper sealant (orangeish oem sealant) is hard to find and costs $$$. I can't even remember the name of it but I searched for it before and found it to be more than I'd like to spend on a small sealant. The plugs were cheaper, especially when you buy from partsouq.

I think normal high temp thread sealant like "Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant" will do just fine, maybe loctite, I already own it and I like free lol.

is there a replacement parts list for rebuilding heads? I've always farmed it out, but doing my own this time.

 

If your rebuilding the heads and block, you might as well get the master gasket kit! 10105AA720

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/full-gasket-kit-content-10105aa720-203457.html

 

Has everything you need that should and needs to be replaced.

 

On top of that, for the block , you need the basics, rotating assembly and bearings, maybe some arp head studs as well.

 

For the heads you need the basics as well, valves, springs and retainers, guides, valve locks(i think they come in master gasket kit), cams, half moons (I use the iag metal ones) and buckets, but you should have most of those and depends on the condition, if your starting from scratch you need all that stuff

 

You want this if you need all the bolts for the block and don't want to nitpick pricing and numbers, but this is a good deal regardless.

https://www.flatironstuning.com/subaru-oem-case-bolts-ej20-ej25

 

Kit Includes:

 

6 x 800708620

1 x 800708630

1 x 800706500

8 x 800210990

2 x 800610010

6 x 11034AA010

4 x 803010120

 

Master gasket kit has the water jacket washers 11034AA010, so you may want to buy one or the other individually to not have a surplus. Those washers are expensive, 4 dollars a piece and you need 6 so 25 bucks for 6 washers...

 

Cylinder block diagrams

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Legacy-25L-TURBO-5MT-4WD-GT-Limited-Sedan/_54102_6023218/CYLINDER-BLOCK-SYSTEM/B13-004-01.html

 

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Legacy-25L-TURBO-5MT-4WD-GT-Limited-Sedan/_54102_6023186/CYLINDER-BLOCK-BODY/B13-004-02.html

 

 

Driver side of block has 2 allen key head oil galley plugs, 1 in front and 1 on top, and one 14mm oil galley bolt. Passenger side has 3 allen key head oil galley plugs, 1 in front , 1 on top and one in the rear by flywheel , as well as one 14mm oil galley bolt.

 

Oil galley plug 11024AA141

Oil galley bolt 11024AA132

 

Heads also need camshaft bolts, and valve cover bolts

 

Diagram for heads

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Legacy-25L-TURBO-5MT-4WD-GT-Limited-Sedan/_54102_6023261/CYLINDER-HEAD-BODY/B13-006-04.html

 

Diagram for Valves

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Legacy-25L-TURBO-5MT-4WD-GT-Limited-Sedan/_54102_6030615/VALVE-MECHANISM/B13-012-03.html

 

Diagram for Valve Covers

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Legacy-25L-TURBO-5MT-4WD-GT-Limited-Sedan/_54102_6029212/ROCKER-COVER/B13-020-02.html

 

I'll break it down more when I get a chance.

 

If I have to get my heads rebuilt, I will be doing it myself as well.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Tehnation

"If I have to get my heads rebuilt, I will be doing it myself as well."

 

I guess that would be after having a machine shop hot tank them and insure they are flat ?

they were just rebuilt and have under 100 miles on them, I don't see them needing to be resurfaced.

 

When I tore down the motor, all the gunk was on top of the windage tray like it just happened, so basically the material didn't really have much time to travel throughout the system. Cause I don't see any metal paste or contamination anywhere else in the system.

 

I have a 5mm boroscope and have been inspecting whatever galleys I can. If theres crap on my valvetrain from the valve oiling then yea rebuild, but if they are fine, play ball. The shop will let me know what's up.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how the oiling system on the heads works or the path it takes rather, anyone have any insight of how the oil flows through the head?

Edited September 28, 2020 by Tehnation

In all my years of playing with motors, I've never seen such crazy sh** that has to occur to fix these motors or the overkill that people go through... Frankly I don't believe the hype at all, its just another motor imo! So that's why I'm going to do it all myself this time to see what all the fuss is about, because it's starting to get on my nerves....

 

On the forums all the crazy stories you hear are from the failures because they probably are looking for answers, but I would assume most turbo subaru owners aren't on the forums telling their success stories, you never hear about those guys lol, only the horror stories.

 

Like me for example, I'm like the machine shop did something wrong, clearances must be bad, blah blah blah, then after really thinking I realize it was my own damn fault and the shop did their job rebuilding my long block. The cracked head was the start of all this, could have happened during transport or god knows but yea.

 

I know kids with crazy meth injection setups, and have no idea about forums. These forums are scary. Fear is the enemy!

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Tehnation