Jump to content
LegacyGT.com

JDM bilstein 5056 coil sleeve for rear. DONE


dukeneverwinter

Recommended Posts

I was looking for a very particular result for my Outback. I wanted to lower it an inch from USA stock height and increase the rear spring rate.

 

I purchased a set of JDM BTS-5056. Had the rear revalved for Rallitek overload 355lb springs. Unfortunately, even with the rear snap ring on lowest setting the outback was a 17.75in from center of wheel to fender. I was hoping for 16in ish.

 

SO. This is what I did. Bought the Bilstein 7 in sleeves for 2in bodies. Too tight, didn't fit over the snapring. Would have been too long anyway. AllStarPerformance sleeves that were 5in long but for 2in bodies. PERFECT fit. Got some 10in long 350lb springs. Now I should be able to dial in exactly the height I want. Results tomorrow night!

 

JDM top hat fits 2.5 eibach springs PERFECTLY. Can't use the bilstein dust sleeeves anymore because they do not fit inside the spring. Kept the dust spring washer/spacer/insert or whatever to keep the spacing right though.e4661f4c13883bb4ab2ac0927084322e.jpgf27d78b825a75dcfb40ee481174cb6e1.jpg201f881bc36561528f6c12067053fba0.jpg

 

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Edited by dukeneverwinter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great job. A few questions:

 

 

So the sleeve prevents you from using the dust shield?

 

 

 

Just to confirm: part numbers 64162 and 64180?

https://allstarperformance.com/alum-c-o-sleeve-5in-bilstein-koni-penske-all64162/

https://allstarperformance.com/2-5in-c-o-adjusting-nut-all64180/

 

 

What tool do you use to adjust the sag?

 

 

I gather the adjust ring from allstar sits on the bilstein snap ring? If yes, did you leave it on the middle groove?

 

 

 

 

I am very interested in this because I do haul a bunch of crap when I go on long road trips (see pic below). And the rear sags a lot. I mean, the car handles great still but I loose too much ground clearance. Do you think this kit would be able to address this issue (i.e. adjust the sag whenever I load the car so as to keep its stance 'right')?

 

 

 

 

crappy pic of our trip last year (3 bikes on roof + skybox+ awning + stowaway box on hitch +fridge in the trunk and food and tools). I know, I need a truck. :spin:.

attachment.php?attachmentid=278184&d=1565363207

 

 

 

And this is how she normally sits:

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=278002&d=1564698923

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=278185&d=1565363540

sagging.png.aa911f7187851c21614bbafe08c3697f.png

IMG_20190729_174500.thumb.jpg.00d533d1ae182b09d854ce2fe7718d53.jpg

Edited by xt2005bonbon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll have to double check the part numbers when I am at an actual computer.

 

You cannot fit the dust shield. In other places than California that may or may not be an issue?

 

I left the ring on the lowest setting. Much higher than that and the sleeve could possibly stick past then shock body.

 

Spring compressors and a 12" spring would probably have been a better setup.

 

With a 10" spring with just a hair of tension the adjusting ring is just as full thread engagement. I had to dial in 42mm of preload to get the height I wanted.

 

More pictures later.

 

23af7e2c71c70878042683ee56d17b14.jpg

 

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First picture in first post shows minimum height with a 10" spring. Which led to about 14.5inch ride height I think(fender to center of hub.) 42mm later raise it to about 16.2 inchs.

 

A 12" spring compressed so you can thread on the adjuster may be better. Especially if you are looking for height. Unsure though.

 

OR.... Going to a 375lb spring or even 400 lb spring you may not have to preload as much. These are 350. But unload may drive weird with that stiff compared to front. Unless you compensated by stiff front bar and soft rear sway bar

 

The dust shield does not fit inside the 2.5in spring.

 

 

 

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info. Still have a bunch of questions :spin:

 

 

 

Looks like you still have quite a bit of ground clearance. How much do you have? And no spacers in the front?

 

 

How do you thread the adjuster? Tires on ground or car raised? What tool do you use?

 

 

So that site you used sell springs that fit our shocks with all these different spring rates? If yes, that's awesome and even better than what rallitek offers then. I'll check the site...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No spacers in front. But the Mooresport Top hats I used raise the car from where even the JDM bisltein top hat sits. So 16.2 ish 'should' be about where the BTS-5056 sits normally I think. That's why I wanted to trim the springs a tiny bit.

 

I ordered everything from Summit Racing. They have HUGE selection of 2.5inch springs in tons of lengths, manufacturers, spring rates, etc.

 

I bought the Moroso coilover adjuster wrench. Basically a hook type device with a handle.

 

I adjusted coils with weight OFF of the wheels. So car lifted by a jack. So there was a lot of: jack car up, remove tire, adjust, install tire, lower, bounce suspension on slider plates, measure, rinse and repeat til I got where I wanted.

 

Just a bit...maybe too much, definitely too much anti-seize was used...

 

Then align it after all said and done....glad I bought all the stuff to make to make it easy. I.e. slider plates, digital camber/caster gauge, toe measuring plates, etc...

 

 

 

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

d3bd45f17564f781aea3205e9853b1f5.jpg

Edited by dukeneverwinter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

you probably could adjust it on ramps, the tires and lack of general clearance under there may prove difficult. Not to mention the added tension of vehicle weight would make it more difficult

 

your part number are correct.

 

this is the coil over tool I bought.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-62030

Edited by dukeneverwinter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks man.

 

 

 

Two more questions for you...

 

 

Do you think the rear top hats that came with the bts kits are better than the USDM oem ones? I currently am using the OEM ones with the rallitek overload springs since, IIRC, the bts ones don't fit them.

 

 

Would the rallitek springs work fine with these coil sleeves?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK.

 

 

 

I am even contemplating 400 lbs springs. I hate the squat on hard acceleration even when empty... Still happening with the rallitek. 'usual load' in the trunk when not on long trip is fairly substantial already (large craftsman tool set + plus additional tool bag + plus 12" subwoofer box I built + 'small' AGM battery HC800 kinetik audio, etc...) I should weigh all of this stuff. I am guessing total 100 lbs or more?

 

 

I need to buy these parts quick. Planning another 2K road trip..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crap. Just noticed that these springs are noticeably shorter than the rallitek or bts ones. I should have measured the latter before purchasing. So, the bts ones are close to 300mm while the Eibach I just got are 10" (254mm).

 

What would be the difference in performance between a 10" and 12" Eibach springs given the same spring rate? Would I loose some travel with the shorter one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crap. Just noticed that these springs are noticeably shorter than the rallitek or bts ones. I should have measured the latter before purchasing. So, the bts ones are close to 300mm while the Eibach I just got are 10" (254mm).

 

What would be the difference in performance between a 10" and 12" Eibach springs given the same spring rate? Would I loose some travel with the shorter one?

 

There isn't a performance decrease, but you may loose travel. It'd depend on your ride height, and thus how much preload you have.

 

I have 9in springs in the rear at 448lb (8K) rate and 148mm of displacement before blocking out. Bilstine rear Legacy speck shocks have can displace 133mm, and I run ~10mm of rear preload. Thus the springs still have 6mm to go when the shocks top out.

 

If I went 10in springs, what would that add? Well the linear range of the springs is only 117mm, so it's getting progressively stiffer during that last 26mm (1in) of travel on the 9in. The 10in would extend the linear range of the spring to 125mm making only the last 18mm of travel unlinear, but at that point one's probably well into the bumpstop anyway. It would also add 0.5lbs of unsprung weight per side.

 

So all that said, if you Eibach springs are anywhere close to my swift springs you're probably good with the 10in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There isn't a performance decrease, but you may loose travel. It'd depend on your ride height, and thus how much preload you have.

 

I have 9in springs in the rear at 448lb (8K) rate and 148mm of displacement before blocking out. Bilstine rear Legacy speck shocks have can displace 133mm, and I run ~10mm of rear preload. Thus the springs still have 6mm to go when the shocks top out.

 

If I went 10in springs, what would that add? Well the linear range of the springs is only 117mm, so it's getting progressively stiffer during that last 26mm (1in) of travel on the 9in. The 10in would extend the linear range of the spring to 125mm making only the last 18mm of travel unlinear, but at that point one's probably well into the bumpstop anyway. It would also add 0.5lbs of unsprung weight per side.

 

So all that said, if you Eibach springs are anywhere close to my swift springs you're probably good with the 10in.

 

K. I am trying to follow the math here :spin:

 

So 148-10=138mm of left over spring displacement

Then, 133-10=123mm of left over shock displacement

If I understand this right, you can at most have 123mm of travel. Then, 138-123=15mm. So did you mean 15mm instead of 6mm? Or I misunderstand what preload means.

 

I am not sure how much shock displacement my BTS kit has. OP, do you know? I mean it is for an outback, so I would guess more than the Legacy. How much more, I have no clue..

 

My ultimate goal is to have my cake and eat it too :lol:. Meaning, pretty good handling, almost no sag, and yet some OK articulation when doing light offroad. I know, I am asking a lot... So maybe the 12" would be a better fit for my need. But not sure how much of a gain I'd get though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I never did measure was exposed shock shaft at full extension.

 

A 12" spring would be difficult to fit I think. You would have to use a spring compressor to get the adjustable spring seat even threaded at all.

 

It possible that I may have lost a tiny bit of travel like Pyro suggested. But it would be after compressing the bump stop completely anyway.

 

Because you are looking at an overall lift, i'd suggest using the saggy butt spacer anyway.

 

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

K. I am trying to follow the math here :spin:

 

So 148-10=138mm of left over spring displacement

Then, 133-10=123mm of left over shock displacement

If I understand this right, you can at most have 123mm of travel. Then, 138-123=15mm. So did you mean 15mm instead of 6mm? Or I misunderstand what preload means.

 

I am not sure how much shock displacement my BTS kit has. OP, do you know? I mean it is for an outback, so I would guess more than the Legacy. How much more, I have no clue..

 

My ultimate goal is to have my cake and eat it too :lol:. Meaning, pretty good handling, almost no sag, and yet some OK articulation when doing light offroad. I know, I am asking a lot... So maybe the 12" would be a better fit for my need. But not sure how much of a gain I'd get though.

 

Preload is spring displacement with no shock displacement. So the spring has 138mm of displacement left when at full droop, and but the shock still has 133mm as it’s not compressed at all.

 

My numbers are for swift 8k springs on a Legacy spec shock running just slightly lowered than stock. And about 200lb of crap in the hatch between the audio system and spare parts.

 

For your outback, a swift 10” 400lb spring has 131mm recommended /167mm max displacement. Presuming your Eibach is the same, and the Outback shock isn’t more than 25mm (1in) longer than the Legacy one, you should be fine.

 

 

I forgot to add I am already using 1" HDPE spacers made by ADF.

 

If you have adjustable spring perches don’t run spacers on the rear of our cars. The bumpstops are on the body, and you’ll max out the shocks before fully engaging them with spacers. My rear Koni’s has the spring perch knocked off of them just from running 3/8in saggy butt spacers. The epic springs blocked out before the bump stops when going across a rut in the road causing complete failure in the rear.

 

Spacers are OK on the front though, as the bump stop is in coaxial with the shock.

Edited by utc_pyro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use