Head Gasket Questions

We are buying a 3rd family vehicle for a new teenage driver (i.e, not our daily driver).

 

We are looking at a 2011 Legacy Premium 2.5i with CVT. It has 50 k miles. It was built in the fall of 2010 if that matters. The cost would be about $9 k (note that it has a scrape / dent in the left front bumper area). We would buy it sight unseen. That may seem a little odd so here's the background… It's one of my company's fleet vehicles. It's located out of state. I know the person driving it now & he said it drives OK with no issues. It's had routine maintenance done.

 

I stumbled across the head gasket issue today. In speaking with a local independent mechanic specializing in Subaru's, he said "it's not a question of if, but when". He quoted a cost of just under $3 k for a complete replacement of the cylinder head gaskets, timing belt, & water pump when it ultimately needs the work - or $2400 for just the cylinder head gaskets.

 

So here are my questions:

 

- From my internet research, it sounds like this problem might have been at least reduced starting with the 2010 model year. I've read on this forum though that there are some 5th generations that have needed repairs. Is it a near certainty that we would ultimately need this repair (as the mechanic indicated)?

 

- If we were to catch a problem early, is there an initial repair that can be done that would head off the $3 k repair? If so, does anybody have a ballpark cost on what that might be?

 

Please help educate us on this. We are interested in the car but don't necessarily want to buy it if in X number of years we are essentially guaranteed to drop $3 k for this repair.

 

Thanks very much for any input!

I went to Forced Air Technologies in Phoenix and paid $1200 for my head gasket job (at 144k miles), so $2400 seems high to me, even considering that you're in another state. They did a timing belt and water pump kit for free since they would have the engine out anyways. (~$350 for the kit?)

I'm not an expert, but I was told that it was more of an issue in the early 2000's and that it not very common anymore.

I don't think there is any type of initial repair that you can do before the problem surfaces, except save money.

 

It doesn't seem like a near certainty to me at all. Subarus have high reliability ratings, so that combined with the high quote sets off my internal BS alarm...

 

At 50k miles it should still have plenty of life left in it. Frankly, I think your teen might diminish its value in other ways before a big repair pops up.

 

How long do you think you'd keep the car?

It is in no way a certainty, is it a possibility, absolutely...the best way to keep head gaskets healthy is to keep the coolant changed regularly which is probably every timing belt change on the newer engines. Use the blue coolant from subaru only, refill missing coolant with either the super blue or distilled water.

 

$3k is the price of a long block depending on where you get it from. More realistically the price of parts is around $500 and labor close to $1k based on time and average shop rates. I would find another shop to talk to, preferable one with a performance pedigree sadly they tend to be more reasonable with their prices, and will probably do all of the work themselves. As opposed to sending heads out to a machine shop like many shops will do, adding time and cost to the repair.

Sarang -

 

Good question on the length of time we'd own the car. As long as possible would be my answer. My car is a work car (Subaru Outback) but they turn them over every 3 to 4 years. My wife drives a 12 year old Honda Odyssey with 120 k miles. Certainly her desire - and mine too to some degree - is to hold onto a car.

 

This particular car is appealing to us because it's cheap, has the safety equipment we want for a teen driver, has all wheel drive (we just moved to Minneapolis), and Subaru's are generally reliable (as you said).

 

By the way, we totally agree about how else the teen might diminish the car's value! In fact, the current dent / scrape is appealing in a weird way. We are NOT planning to get it fixed because we assume it may not be the last dent / scrape.

Subaru redesigned the EJ engine so that head gasket failures are less common. The old motor would failed from the combustion chamber to the coolant. The new design very rarely fails that way on a 2.5i. As the engine gets older the head gasket can leak oil though. The 5th gen 2.5i haven't had oil leaking hearts met problem but 4th gen oil leaking head gaskets do seem to leak. The oil leak doesn't require immediate repair. I suspect that as the 5th gen legacy get older this might occur but only time will tell. I am not sure if Subaru made any changes between the 4th gen EJ and the 5th Gen 10-12 EJ motors to improve this.

Is there any type of aftermarket head gasket that can purchased that are more robust for these engines to improve reliability?

Is there any type of aftermarket head gasket that can purchased that are more robust for these engines to improve reliability?

 

I was told no.

I literally asked the shop what I could do to make this never happen again, and he said "remove the turbo and never go past half throttle?"

He did follow up by saying that if my car went another 144k miles on the new head gaskets then something else would probably fail by then.

Is there any type of aftermarket head gasket that can purchased that are more robust for these engines to improve reliability?

 

OEM gasket is fine. You should just swap to head studs while you're in there.

2400.00 is outrageous, the dealer would be cheaper than this!

Is there any type of aftermarket head gasket that can purchased that are more robust for these engines to improve reliability?

 

I was told no.

I literally asked the shop what I could do to make this never happen again, and he said "remove the turbo and never go past half throttle?"

He did follow up by saying that if my car went another 144k miles on the new head gaskets then something else would probably fail by then.

 

There are better gaskets cometic and felpro both make a good MLS gasket, or in this case the turbo gasket with correct thickness should be an upgrade to the 2.5i one.

Do they still recommend the "cooling conditioner" ie stop leak in the 5th gen cars? I know the 4th gen used it, along with Subaru green coolant, and it worked great. I still recommend to any of my customers that drive 4th gen non turbos to have me do this service. I have seen it completely stop leaking head gaskets (coolant leaking). Just haven't worked on many 5th gen yet, so don't know if they still recommend that with the super blue or not.

 

Another preventative measure is to replace the thermostat with an OEM Subaru one every couple of years to prevent a stuck tstat and overheating it. Just my $.02

The super blue coolant superseded the coolant conditioner. So no need in the cars equipped with superblue. The stock thermostat iirc is a failsafe type so it should not stick closed ever. Can anyone confirm this?

 

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OP Here -

 

I called the local Subaru dealer service department today. The person I spoke to said that Subaru fixed the head gasket issue in 2010 so a 2011 would be good (that wasn't his exact words but it's a pretty close paraphrase). He went so far as to say that if I did bring in a 2011 with this problem "it would be my first". I asked what a repair typically cost & he said something about using a turbo gasket & it costing about $2600 (disclaimer: I don't know a lot about cars). Note that they don't have any skin in the game one way or the other as they're not selling the car we're thinking of buying.

 

Perhaps the average 2011 doesn't have enough years or miles yet for these problems to really manifest.

 

Saying all that, I do believe that I've seen a few people on this board with 5th generations that did have a problem & needed the repair (Sarang who posted above for one).

 

We are still deciding if we want this car but at $9 k for a 2011 with 50 k miles, we could conceivably drop a couple grand into the repair if it's needed & still be OK value wise.

Most of the head gaskets issues here have been on turbo models, and modified ones at that. So those experiences will not be indicative of a naturally aspirated gasket problem.

 

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Heuberger quoted me $1800 for parts, labor and taxes. Another dealer said it would be $3500.

 

An independent shop quoted me $1900. They said the water pump, timing belt kit was around $300 I believe

 

In the end, Subaru ended up covering mine under warranty as I had hit 60k miles the morning it failed.