Upgrading from my VF-52, suggestions?

I had some maintenance done on the GT wagon at Cobb Surgeline last week before the start of track season and decided to have the new Grimmspeed TMIC that was sitting in my garage swapped onto the car while it was in for service. Although a new tune wasn't mandatory with a TMIC swap, from Perrin to Grimmspeed, they had a hole in their dyno schedule and offered to throw it on to ensure everything was still up to snuff since the car is getting driven so hard.

 

Chris didn't have any issues getting the car to put down the same power as it was before the swap to my GS unit but the adjustments he had to make in the tune to achieve this indicated that my VF-52 is getting long in the tooth and needs to be replaced in the near future. Not surprised, its been on the car for 8 years now and its been pushed quite hard over the years both on track and until 3 years ago as a daily driver as well. He doesn't feel that the turbo is in imminent risk of failure but it needs to go sooner rather than later.

 

I hadn't planned on doing an upgrade quite yet as my plan was to go ahead and do a full top feed swap with 1000cc inj, Blouch 1.5XTR, TGV delete, replace my old Walbro 255 with a DW65C, etc etc. This was all going to cost a pretty penny and after doing a forged motor and 6 speed swap over the last two seasons I'm just not financially prepared for this quite expensive upgrade yet.

 

So now I'm at a point where I'm really not comfortable continuing to drive the car hard much longer on the VF52 before it goes out on me. For now, I'm looking to swap something in thats a mild upgrade but nothing radical. Something that I can safely run on my DW 740 sidefeeds for a season or two while I save up the funds for a bigger swap down the road.

 

Now that I have the Grimmspeed TMIC on I've got a pretty wide range of STI style turbos I can run. I'm currently looking at the Blouch 18G-XT and Cobb's 20G but lots of other choices out there. Anyone have other suggestions that I should look at? I'm not really looking for, (or expecting) a huge power bump from my VF52, if I can crack 300HP or more out of Surgeline's dyno I'd be perfectly happy. Currently at 290 / 333TQ. The car is 98% track car 2% driver so I'm ok losing some power down low as the car lives most of its life from 3200-6500 rpm. I'm also factoring re-sale value into this as well. Hoping to gather the funds for a full Dom. 1.5XTR swap within the next 18-24 months so I'd like something that is a fairly popular choice as I'll want to re-coup some funds selling it down the road.

You could just replace your chra with a new/upgraded unit for a temporary (several years) and cheap solution.

 

Here is an example:

 

https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/webshop/prod_5482795-Uprated-Hybrid-Billet-GTX-style-Turbo-Cartridge-CHRA-Core-RHF55-Subaru-WRX-Legacy-Turbocharger.html

Is it a 68HTA? Can't remember... sorry.

But that's my recommendation..

Like Rhino said :

 

-Rebuild the vf52

-Find a good used VF48 on nasioc (basically the vf52 with STI compressor with slight improvment in cfm)

 

Those are not upgrades but it gives you the time to search for your next turbo while still being able to drive the car around.

You'll probably be able to sell it back for the same price. I did this when I needed to port my WG on my 52 and ended up even minus labor.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Lets say that I didnt want to replace the VF52 with same. Then what would you pick? . Couple of reasons for this: don’t want to go with a used turbo as the car has way too much money invested in it now and it gets driven HARD. I just don’t feel comfortable putting something in that doesn’t have a known history. Don’t want to rebuild mine as I want to swap out the same day, re tune and move on. Regardless of whatever I pick (even if it was another VF52) I’m still going to have to pay for another dyno tune so why not put something slightly bigger and better while I’m at it. Who knows, if if I like it I may delay the jump to a Dom 1.5 XTR for quite some time. Regardless of what I end up with there will be some resale value there.

I saw this thread, saw who started it, and thought to myself " I bet they'd love a dominator"... so there goes my first recommendation! I see where you're at, though. Want to replace VF52, not yet ready for Dom1.5 status, so you might as well change it up. The TMIC opens up some options for you which is nice.

 

If it were me, and I don't really keep myself updated on turbos and such because my vf52 has been a champ. I would look at either an X400, or perhaps a 380XT. Simply because they're drop in, and both claim to just offer a little more breathing room over what you have now. You'll get perhaps some more torque, and the powerband will last longer in the rev range. I'm guessing with those injectors, you probably don't have too much breathing room left, correct? Something in the "just bigger than a VF52 range might be a perfect match.

 

I'm sure other will be able to make better recommendations than I, though.

Yup MTB, thats the rub right there. The 740's are the main factor in my choice for sure. The guys at Cobb Surgeline are not huge fans of anything sidefeed when it comes to tuning. Chris said that its much harder to tune for the variability in them and essentially he can tell them what to do but they kinda have a mind of their own so I'm really looking forward to moving over to top feed down the road. Definitely looking at the 380XT as well. Wonder if resale wouldn't be as good due to the smaller Legacy market as compared to the WRX / STI market? I'd love to find something with that fitment to expand my resale crowd.

71 HTA or FP Blue. I hear nothing but good things and it may stave off your need for a big upgrade later.

Plus, they seem to sell really quick as used turbos.

I'll be swapping from a Stage 3 SoCal Porting VF 52 to a DOM 1.5 xtr (10cm) in the next couple of months (hopefully). I don't know how much of a hurry you are in but I'll post results and a comparison when I do.

I'll be swapping from a Stage 3 SoCal Porting VF 52 to a DOM 1.5 xtr (10cm) in the next couple of months (hopefully). I don't know how much of a hurry you are in but I'll post results and a comparison when I do.

 

Shralp’s other car has my JMP VF52, so you could easily compare the dyno of my car with that versus my car with DOM1.5XTR. Also Surgeline says they hardly ever see a 10cm DOM1.5XTR on a street car.

Yup the numbers that WRX USA is putting down is exactly where I want to be down the road. Not sure if I'd choose 8cm or 10cm, it would be interesting to see the difference on both. Still mulling around my options to see what I want to go with. Wish I was ready to do the full throw down for top feed and a Dom but not quite ready to take the hit in my wallet

FWIW are you going to replace the oil return hose while the new turbo is being installed ?

 

Are there any other small things you might want to address while working in that area?

Not sure if I'd choose 8cm or 10cm, it would be interesting to see the difference on both

 

There was a thread on here from a member who tried different big turbos (trying to find).

IIRC, he tried the 8 and 10cm version of the 1.5xt.

Shralp’s other car has my JMP VF52, so you could easily compare the dyno of my car with that versus my car with DOM1.5XTR. Also Surgeline says they hardly ever see a 10cm DOM1.5XTR on a street car.

I'll go check it out, then again I'm not familiar with what JMP does to upgrade the VF52 versus SoCal Porting. With regards to the DOM, all the research regarding the 10CM vs 8CM showed a minimal difference in spool between the two, but a better top end with the 10CM.

 

Yup the numbers that WRX USA is putting down is exactly where I want to be down the road. Not sure if I'd choose 8cm or 10cm, it would be interesting to see the difference on both. Still mulling around my options to see what I want to go with. Wish I was ready to do the full throw down for top feed and a Dom but not quite ready to take the hit in my wallet

I'm hoping to hit at least 400 whp on E85, and I'd love to hit WRX USA numbers on 91 octane. Then again CA 91 octane is horrendous

yeah Max, I'll opt to replace the oil return hose and anything else related to that that is known to fail or get compromised with hard use.

 

Love to check out 8cm vs. 10cm Dom if you find it BigleBen, I'll poke around on Nasioc as well...

 

its funny, the priority for car has really changed a ton in the last 12 years. I don't even consider "aesthetic" upgrades to the car anymore. If a mod doesn't help it to stop or go faster, corner harder or keep something from failing, then it doesn't really belong. Well, within reason I guess, everything aft of the rear seats is gutted but I can't bring myself to pull the rear door cards or cargo area side trim yet. It might add up to a a few lbs but it would make the car look even more bare than it already is. Right now it just looks like "oh you pulled the rear seat out for your track day" even though when you really look close, all the mounting stuff, belts, etc is gone. That was a nice weight savings. Its a strange place to be sometimes, a street legal car that only really makes sense at the track but isn't even close to being set up for sanctioned racing. I have used it once in awhile to grab larger stuff from Home Depot though. It holds a ton of stuff in the back, compared to my Outback

Love to check out 8cm vs. 10cm Dom if you find it BigleBen

 

There ya go

 

https://preracing.com/stock-location-turbo-showdown/

I've often debated this topic myself. While the 71 HTA gets good similar numbers to the 8cm 1.5 xtr it looks like the Dom is still the king for spool if you can swing it.

Yup most of my research ends up at the Dom 1.5. Still mulling over the idea of replacing my tired VF52 with something else until I have the funds to go full top feed with fueling. Wonder how the Dom 1.5 would do with my old DW 740 sidefeeds and Walbro 255 fuel pump for now?

Yup most of my research ends up at the Dom 1.5. Still mulling over the idea of replacing my tired VF52 with something else until I have the funds to go full top feed with fueling. Wonder how the Dom 1.5 would do with my old DW 740 sidefeeds and Walbro 255 fuel pump for now?

 

My guess would be along the lines of lame spool, maxed injectors/pump from airflow, and maxed wastegate duty cycle to keep things from running away up top... but perhaps I'm wrong? I'm just basing it off of the fact that my VF52 commands ~67% injector duty cycle with ID1000's and a DW65c for a measley 268hp and ~18psi boost peak.

 

I almost wonder if it would be controllable(AKA- restricted) enough with your current setup that you could install it, and deal with the possible negatives for now. If anything, it'll be living a very low stress life! But... the "overbuild & undertune" in me screams a little at that idea. I think my biggest fear would be available fueling.

 

At this point, if you're set on staving off the dominator endeavor, I'd recommend just getting your current snail rebuilt by JMP (if he's still doing his thing, last I spoke to him he was going on a bit of a sabbatical). He's the one person I'd trust to breathe new life into a VF, and it far beats the cost of a new turbo. I've got one of his VF52's with an 11 blade billet wheel. Spool is about the same but according to my tuner it holds power a little better up top. We didn't taper too much when I got tuned. Linear powerband ftw!

Yup I’ve got a JMP 11 blade in my Outback and I’m quite happy with it, (on stock fueling). Might be a good option for now. I guess my train of thought was since I’ll have to pay get retuned regardless of what I go with (even if it’s a JMP rebuild) why not find something that might give me a reasonable bump in power, a la an 18G ish variant. Of course then there is the hassle of re selling it once I make the jump to the 1.5 XTR. But if the rebuild price is right and JMP is back in the game maybe that’s the easiest route right now...