What did you do to your 4th gen. Legacy today? Vol - 10

Drove the spec b to work and hit 55k mi. Wagon is in for a leaking fuel tank - farrrk! Hoping to get another winter out of the wagon...

 

My Spec rolled 89,000 miles on the way home from work yesterday. It was low on gas and I had a 50 cents off on a gallon at BJ's Wholesale Club. So I put 14.6 gallons in a $2.47 a gallon.

 

I had the leaking fuel tank replaced in the wagon by my buddies body shop two years ago. Its a big job. They did the fuel filler tube too, had them install a AEM 320 fuel pump too.

SBT, hey funny thing, I'm currently 22 post from having half as many post as you do.

 

Funny, what one notices sometimes...

I am like 99% sure I saw a black Gen 4 Outback with a JDM bumper about a week ago in Federal Way, WA getting on I-5 South from WA-18 East. I thought I would be the only one in the area with a JDM bumper. Haha. Seems like I have a doppelganger around here. I'd like to know who they are if they're on here. Wondering what kind of other mods they've done. Maybe I'll get some inspiration for my Outback.

Got some headway on installing my Hallman MBC (setting up for a hybrid EBCS/MBC boost control setup). Ran the vacuum lines through the firewall (using the small grommeted opening between the heater hoses and the pitch-stop), which took much longer than I expected. Need to find my set of vacuum fittings to find another tee, then need to re-assemble the lower dash and shifter trim, etc., and find a nice place to mount the MBC. I'm thinking of using one of the screws that holds the lower dash on to keep it tucked out of the way, but still reachable and adjustable from the driver's seat. Cleaned out all the intercooler hoses, so hopefully no more popping off once everything's back together

 

I had the leaking fuel tank replaced in the wagon by my buddies body shop two years ago. Its a big job. They did the fuel filler tube too, had them install a AEM 320 fuel pump too.

 

I’ve been debating if I want to tackle this job myself or not. I’m being told my EVAP CEL is from a bad gas tank although I don’t smell any gas and it’s not leaking at all. It does seem like a lot of work though. I was quoted $1,000 for the job, does this seem about right? It’s been like this for almost a year now, I’m so sick of resetting the CEL every 150 miles if I want to use the cruise though and then having to relearn the idle every time.

 

Drove almost 1,500 miles this past week with the wagon. Car runs amazing, really hate this EVAP CEL though.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Holla

Have you read the actual code? Is it for the charcoal canister?

I’ve been debating if I want to tackle this job myself or not. I’m being told my EVAP CEL is from a bad gas tank although I don’t smell any gas and it’s not leaking at all. It does seem like a lot of work though. I was quoted $1,000 for the job, does this seem about right? It’s been like this for almost a year now, I’m so sick of resetting the CEL every 150 miles if I want to use the cruise though and then having to relearn the idle every time.

 

Drove almost 1,500 miles this past week with the wagon. Car runs amazing, really hate this EVAP CEL though.

 

That's a good price for the job.

 

The rear suspension sub-frame assemble has to be dropped.

 

I had the real gas leak on the driveway.

Got some headway on installing my Hallman MBC (setting up for a hybrid EBCS/MBC boost control setup). Ran the vacuum lines through the firewall (using the small grommeted opening between the heater hoses and the pitch-stop), which took much longer than I expected. Need to find my set of vacuum fittings to find another tee, then need to re-assemble the lower dash and shifter trim, etc., and find a nice place to mount the MBC. I'm thinking of using one of the screws that holds the lower dash on to keep it tucked out of the way, but still reachable and adjustable from the driver's seat. Cleaned out all the intercooler hoses, so hopefully no more popping off once everything's back together

 

 

Are you going to be adjusting the MBC often enough to really want it in the cabin?

 

Or is that where people normally run them and I'm just not "in the know"?

Are you going to be adjusting the MBC often enough to really want it in the cabin?

 

Or is that where people normally run them and I'm just not "in the know"?

 

I plan on using it to help tuning as described by NSFW here: https://www.romraider.com/index.php/RomRaider/NsfwOnMbcs

Have you read the actual code? Is it for the charcoal canister?

 

It’s P0456. I had the car smoke tested, they told me it’s the gas tank. I had looked at the canister but it’s so hard to find a little pin hole leak. I may get another smoke test, I’m just having a hard time believing the tank is bad.

 

That's a good price for the job.

 

The rear suspension sub-frame assemble has to be dropped.

 

I had the real gas leak on the driveway.

 

That’s good to know. Not sure I want to invest the time into fixing this myself, doesn’t seem like a fun project, especially without a lift.

The process to get the subframe out is pretty straight forward though rudt and corrosion makes it a lot less tenable as a DIY project. Then it's just the filler neck, electrical connections on top, and the few vacuum lines, remove the straps and the tank should slide out. Obviously best if done on a lift. The two drain plugs on the two tanks make getting the gas out easier. Cautionis warranted when draining.

I had an awesome machine shop down on the coast that I took the Spec B arms (F/R) to, along with the replacement WL bushes, and for $20.00/bush, pressed them all out and pressed the new bits back in. They dressed the 6MT flywheel for $50.00. I was OTD for less than $200.00 even with the tip I gave the guy. Since I was installing everything myself, it just made more sense to go this route.

 

I've heard there's some good machine shops local to me, but haven't investigated or inquired yet. On the to-do list though.

 

Most of the machine shops (automotive or otherwise) only do engine work or dont seem to care to respond to e-mail or phone call. Hard to find good help these days.

 

I forgot my grandmas neighbor is a mechanic so I may see what he would charge or can offer - maybe barrow a press. If not I found a HF coupon (https://www.hfqpdb.com/) dropping the 12ton press price to $99 so thats more then reasonable IMO. I may have trouble getting a cup for the large trailing arm bushing, but everything else I think is available in some form or fashion.

 

The subaru shop thats opening wanted $200 labor for 4 bushings saying "They usually just burn and cut them out". New Aluminum arms with bushings from RA are only $180 and they at least include a BJ

 

It’s P0456. I had the car smoke tested, they told me it’s the gas tank. I had looked at the canister but it’s so hard to find a little pin hole leak. I may get another smoke test, I’m just having a hard time believing the tank is bad.

 

 

 

That’s good to know. Not sure I want to invest the time into fixing this myself, doesn’t seem like a fun project, especially without a lift.

 

Did your smoke use UV? Cryo uses UV dye in the smoke machine and it really helped to point out the leak on my BPV hose connector one time.

I’ve been debating if I want to tackle this job myself or not. I’m being told my EVAP CEL is from a bad gas tank although I don’t smell any gas and it’s not leaking at all. It does seem like a lot of work though. I was quoted $1,000 for the job, does this seem about right? It’s been like this for almost a year now, I’m so sick of resetting the CEL every 150 miles if I want to use the cruise though and then having to relearn the idle every time.

 

Drove almost 1,500 miles this past week with the wagon. Car runs amazing, really hate this EVAP CEL though.

 

 

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but I thought a bad gas cap can trigger that EVAP cell as well?

It’s P0456. I had the car smoke tested, they told me it’s the gas tank. I had looked at the canister but it’s so hard to find a little pin hole leak. I may get another smoke test, I’m just having a hard time believing the tank is bad.

 

 

 

That’s good to know. Not sure I want to invest the time into fixing this myself, doesn’t seem like a fun project, especially without a lift.

 

Huh. I'd be surprised if it's the actual tank if you're not seeing any leaks or signs of a leak on the tank itself. P0456 is an EVAP leak code for a small leak, as far as I could find on a very quick google search. That could mean anything from the gas cap to the EVAP system lines, to the canister, to the tank itself. It's a pain to find, but it sucks to go for the most difficult/expensive to replace part first. IF you're in the DC area, what shop did the diagnostic? In that area (I used to live in Balto), I'd trust Andrewtech Automotive for anything Subaru. Probably worth a second diagnostic opinion if the first swing at it is going to cost you $1000 at your current shop.

Continuing to chase down the bad idle issues. Beginning to wonder if the fuel system is clogged somewhere, which would probably make sense since the car sat for so long.

 

Found a video with an idle similar to mine, not sure who this random old guy is but I was looking for an example:

 

Should I be looking at injectors? Fuel pump? I have a spare set of injectors I might toss on if I should be tinkering with that, or I can see if there's a DW65C I can pick up on the cheap or something.

 

P2101 and P2102 are still lingering despite me checking the throttle relay, changing out the throttle body for a spare one, cleaning it, and reassembling the whole thing. Throttle pedal does not seem to interact with the throttle control system at all.

 

Any recommendations? I can maybe grab a quick video of it tomorrow but I hate to start it when it sounds like it's running so poorly.

It’s P0456. I had the car smoke tested, they told me it’s the gas tank. I had looked at the canister but it’s so hard to find a little pin hole leak. I may get another smoke test, I’m just having a hard time believing the tank is bad.

 

 

 

That’s good to know. Not sure I want to invest the time into fixing this myself, doesn’t seem like a fun project, especially without a lift.

 

The process to get the subframe out is pretty straight forward though rudt and corrosion makes it a lot less tenable as a DIY project. Then it's just the filler neck, electrical connections on top, and the few vacuum lines, remove the straps and the tank should slide out. Obviously best if done on a lift. The two drain plugs on the two tanks make getting the gas out easier. Cautionis warranted when draining.

 

The body shop had to cut a hole in a frame rail to get a nut that broke loose that holds the sub frame to the body. They patched the hole but that's not something I could have done.

Continuing to chase down the bad idle issues. Beginning to wonder if the fuel system is clogged somewhere, which would probably make sense since the car sat for so long.

 

Found a video with an idle similar to mine, not sure who this random old guy is but I was looking for an example:

 

Should I be looking at injectors? Fuel pump? I have a spare set of injectors I might toss on if I should be tinkering with that, or I can see if there's a DW65C I can pick up on the cheap or something.

 

P2101 and P2102 are still lingering despite me checking the throttle relay, changing out the throttle body for a spare one, cleaning it, and reassembling the whole thing. Throttle pedal does not seem to interact with the throttle control system at all.

 

Any recommendations? I can maybe grab a quick video of it tomorrow but I hate to start it when it sounds like it's running so poorly.

 

 

Even if you put fresh gas in the tank I'd still add some water removing and injector cleaning additives. If the car sat for 2 years in upstate I would expect some water in the tank.

I have a AEM UEGO coming tomorrow, I figured I might as well use the other TGV input for something and a WB would be a really good idea with 740s now. Gonna try to figure out how to get the time for an install in the middle of moving this weekend, and wire it up to feed Btssm next to my oil pressure "gauge"...

I have a AEM UEGO coming tomorrow, I figured I might as well use the other TGV input for something and a WB would be a really good idea with 740s now. Gonna try to figure out how to get the time for an install in the middle of moving this weekend, and wire it up to feed Btssm next to my oil pressure "gauge"...

 

Out of curiosity - where are you planning to power the wideband from? I've heard tell that it's a good idea to wait to power it until the exhaust temps have warmed up a bit to prevent any thermal shock from the wideband's own heater and any condensate in the exhaust stream during startup, so a source like the rear O2 is recommended since it behaves similarly. I was going to just put mine on an SPST switch tucked next to the cigarette lighter, but curious to hear other ideas.

Out of curiosity - where are you planning to power the wideband from? I've heard tell that it's a good idea to wait to power it until the exhaust temps have warmed up a bit to prevent any thermal shock from the wideband's own heater and any condensate in the exhaust stream during startup, so a source like the rear O2 is recommended since it behaves similarly. I was going to just put mine on an SPST switch tucked next to the cigarette lighter, but curious to hear other ideas.

 

Heres a really good article about sensors: https://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-band-airfuel-ratio-lambda-sensors-fail-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

 

That said, I think mines hooked up to the ACC fuse May investigate a better solution because the article said that a relay should be used that turns on when the engine is running - but what sensor or source could be used for that?

Heres a really good article about sensors: https://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-band-airfuel-ratio-lambda-sensors-fail-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

 

That said, I think mines hooked up to the ACC fuse May investigate a better solution because the article said that a relay should be used that turns on when the engine is running - but what sensor or source could be used for that?

 

I just found the same article on a Google search

 

You could use IGN power for "engine running" relay power source. It will turn on momentarily when turning the key to START, but will be off during cranking. If you want a delay you'd need more circuitry to wait some amount of time before closing the relay. There are plenty of "time-delay" relays on Amazon, eBay, etc., that would work for this purpose.

 

On-topic: on my lunch break, just buttoned the LGT back up for the most part. TB/IC hoses seem plenty tight now, with no oil inside or around the outside of the hose/inside the clamps. MBC is in the cabin, but not secured anywhere just yet. Planning on taking the car in to work so I can do some driving/logging afterwards!

Out of curiosity - where are you planning to power the wideband from? I've heard tell that it's a good idea to wait to power it until the exhaust temps have warmed up a bit to prevent any thermal shock from the wideband's own heater and any condensate in the exhaust stream during startup, so a source like the rear O2 is recommended since it behaves similarly. I was going to just put mine on an SPST switch tucked next to the cigarette lighter, but curious to hear other ideas.

 

I like the idea of tapping the 12v heater power to the rear O2, as according to the FSM, it's only on when the engine is running.

As a plus, that puts all the wiring in the same general area in the engine bay as I'm going to use the RH TGV plug that's in the same area.

Took it out for a spin after work, unfortunately mostly in city traffic. MBC seems to be working, though I think I really ought to get the proper extension cable to put the controller under the hood, since the long vacuum hoses probably hurt the transient response. But for now, ziptied it near the temperature sensor because I never use the auto HVAC and it was easy

 

 

The white zipties are to mark input (one ziptie, to compressor housing/boost source) and output (two zipties, to wastegate actuator).

 

Still smoking from under the hood (and even was pulling smoke into the cabin through the vents when not set to recirculate ) when hot. Smoke is wispy and white, and doesn't smell like burning motor oil to me. RH side axle is wet along with the subframe, etc., where all the smoke originates, nothing on the front of the engine where the PS pump is. Looks like it's gotta be the hoses or the rack itself. Future goal is to swap for the '15 STi rack (which, upon further reading, doesn't pose any VDC problems for the LGT, only for the OBXT, and which can be fixed anyway with some embedded system hackery).

 

Didn't see any smoke in the tailpipe on cold start after work, so my initial fears that all my work and money spent in rebuilding the heads but not touching the shortblock not fixing anything are subsiding. But I guess I won't know until I push the car

Edited August 31, 2019 by solidxsnake

I've had my bosch 4.2 installed for many, many years. 5 maybe? Still workin good. Hooked into accessory power. Ran by a plx devices controller.

Heres a really good article about sensors: https://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-band-airfuel-ratio-lambda-sensors-fail-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

 

That said, I think mines hooked up to the ACC fuse May investigate a better solution because the article said that a relay should be used that turns on when the engine is running - but what sensor or source could be used for that?

 

I would consider connecting the oil pressure switch to a relay that closes the circuit when the switch is off so the sensor runs only when switched power is on and the engine has started and it distinguishes that state from turning on the ignition to put the windows up or run the radio or set the clock. If you have an oil pressure gauge, you don't need any other function from the idiot light but if you only have the idiot light, this will still work.

Edited August 31, 2019 by amptramp