2nd-Gen LGT Brake Upgrades: WRX front and H6 Rear

You need to get the brackets for the calipers you intend to put on. Rock auto has them pretty cheap.

Correct, I did separately get a set of 2007 Forester brackets to match the Impreza calipers... they simply aren't in this photo. The Forester went to WRX-sized brakes in 2003, according to https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18085854&postcount=1

It's what appears to be much larger pistons that concerns me. However, Jamal says I'll need to disassemble them and measure the bore to be sure.

Sorry I misunderstood the problem (Missed the last two sentences on brake balance.)

The part numbers I used are here.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5461728

The fronts list 2004-2008 WRX.

I also did stainless brake lines. My car stops wonderfully. More balanced front to rear i am running 205/60/16 Nitto NT450 all around and thiis car stops better than my previous cars. Best previous was a 79 Corvette on EBC pads and rotors and four piston calipers.

Jamal wins the internet today:

Without removing the pistons and measuring the outside diameter you can't really tell for sure that they are a different size. The centric catalog for example does list the same diameter for both.

One cannot judge a book by its cover:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265052&stc=1&d=1526075592

I had to open up the book and read:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265053&stc=1&d=1526075592

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265054&stc=1&d=1526075592

The older- and newer-style pistons do indeed have the same bore diameter. The older pistons simply have a narrower rim. The newer pistons have a rim that matches the diameter of the bore.

Still for me to learn: was this design change put into place at the 2003 caliper redesign? Or later? I was talking to the local Subaru parts dealer on the phone to get quotes on seal kits. The guy was saying there was a change in MY2007, and the correct kit was dependent on the VIN of the donor vehicle.

Well. The brake caliper rebuild on the Legacy GT wagon has finally been completed. I installed the calipers a couple weeks ago, I re-bled each corner yesterday, and just today I installed the Grimmspeed Master Cylinder Brace.

This project was months in the making. TL;DR:

FIND all the desired components, tools, and supplies.

GRIND all of the calipers & brackets, then wire wheeled to a smooth finish.

SHINED the calipers with a caliper clearcoat over bare brushed steel.

BIND the clearcoat to the caliper steel at 200°F for 1 hour.

COMBINED the calipers, brackets, pistons, seals, & pads with existing EBC rotors and then fastened everything to the car.

LINED the calipers to the existing polymer-sleeved stainless brake lines, and then vacuum bled thoroughly.

SIGNED - as in STOP, which the car now does very well.

MASTERMIND is Jamal, so study his Compiled brake information thread at NASIOC because it is full of vital Subaru brake information.

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EDIT: Having difficulty editing post (all text gets deleted from edit window) and adding images (uploads failing) :/

EDIT #2: Seems that the editor does not like the "degrees" symbol! °°°°

I was having troubles like that on a forum. Turned out to be my script blocker needed a new whitelist entry.

Seems that the editor does not like the "degrees" symbol! °°°°

A quick clarification... the shiny "new" calipers were a spare OEM factory original set from a 2007 Impreza, and I put in a ton of work to shine them up. The old rusty calipers that came off of my car were cheap remanufactured units that superficially appeared new and "painted", but the metallic grey coating turned to a rusty appearance within weeks of installation. Three out of four calipers had been on the car since February 2011, and one of the rear units had been replaced under warranty about two years later.

A few pics to enjoy before the detailed writeup.

EDIT: For some reason I haven't posted a closeup of the rear Impreza-style calipers. I chose these over Gen 3 Legacy calipers because the locating notch for the brake line is positioned to hold the fitting in place correctly. With the Gen 3 Legacy caliper, the angle of the Gen 2 brake line cannot fit in the notch and there is the risk of the banjo bolt coming loose over time. Here is a link to post #64 that shows this issue in close-up:

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3271307&postcount=64

I also have a '98 Legacy L with single piston calipers all around. Were there any modifications to fitting the dual piston front calipers (do the dual piston brackets bolt up the same way)? I assume you replaced the rotors with ones made for the dual piston calipers as well. If I do this conversion, I'm thinking the current 14" wheels won't have enough clearance, but I have a set of 16" GT snowflakes that will go on it at some point.

as mentioned before, the 14" wheels won't clear. You need at least 15s. Also, if you just get reman calipers, they usually come with the brackets already. That is what I did. huge upgrade and easy to do.

Question is, do you REALLY need that big of a brake in the rear?

I just saw this question now and please allow me to add in my valuable insight. While it's true that your front brakes do 70% of all braking on the vehicle, you need to think about this: Braking efficiency is the measure of how much friction you can build up to stop a vehicle and by how much heat you can dissipate between braking events.

The rotors on our second gen in the rear are small. Small enough that you can theoretically put 14" wheels on your car. That means that your rotors and pads provide a smaller surface area to build friction to stop and a slower cooling rate on the rotor to provide efficient braking. This is important in racing, but tests show that similar conditions exist in city stop-n-go driving. Same difference, just not as extreme. What is extreme is the amount of time the pad stays in contact with the rotor while you're waiting for the light to change. That part of the rotor isn't cooling as fast as the other section, creating hot spots.

The H6 brake upgrade gives you a bigger surface area in which to stop. Bigger surface area means more contribution to the braking.

I just saw this question now and please allow me to add in my valuable insight. While it's true that your front brakes do 70% of all braking on the vehicle, you need to think about this: Braking efficiency is the measure of how much friction you can build up to stop a vehicle and by how much heat you can dissipate between braking events.

 

The rotors on our second gen in the rear are small. Small enough that you can theoretically put 14" wheels on your car. That means that your rotors and pads provide a smaller surface area to build friction to stop and a slower cooling rate on the rotor to provide efficient braking. This is important in racing, but tests show that similar conditions exist in city stop-n-go driving. Same difference, just not as extreme. What is extreme is the amount of time the pad stays in contact with the rotor while you're waiting for the light to change. That part of the rotor isn't cooling as fast as the other section, creating hot spots.

 

The H6 brake upgrade gives you a bigger surface area in which to stop. Bigger surface area means more contribution to the braking.

I agree. I think the H6 brake upgrade is a great upgrade, because it is not a complicated upgrade. When my rear brakes go, I am going to go that route for sure.

I think I'm about to do the powerstop route for my Outback. It appears that they come with powdercoated brackets although i cant find anything in the description stating that they do. Guess I'll order them and find out.

2002 WRX front- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Stop-KC2373-26/401642819247

2004 LGT rears- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Stop-KC3124-26/312330290958

If not Rock auto has them cheap.

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I think I'm about to do the powerstop route for my Outback. It appears that they come with powdercoated brackets although i cant find anything in the description stating that they do. Guess I'll order them and find out.

2002 WRX front- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Stop-KC2373-26/401642819247

2004 LGT rears- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Stop-KC3124-26/312330290958

Yes I considered Powerstop remanufactured calipers for their powdercoating, but I wasn't crazy about the bright red finish. Plain-Jane remans will begin to rust within weeks. Ultimately I went with used OEM calipers and brackets in good condition because they are a great starting point for my clearcoat approach, and because I was mixing/matching several donor cars with differing brackets (front/rear calipers from 2007 Impreza wagon, front brackets from 2008 Forester to match newer style 2-piston caliper (same size as WRX) and rear H6 brackets from a 2002 Outback). I seem to remember NAPA sells remans with a black epoxy coating but I never looked into that.

Yes I considered Powerstop remanufactured calipers for their powdercoating, but I wasn't crazy about the bright red finish. Plain-Jane remans will begin to rust within weeks. Ultimately I went with used OEM calipers and brackets in good condition because they are a great starting point for my clearcoat approach, and because I was mixing/matching several donor cars with differing brackets (front/rear calipers from 2007 Impreza wagon, front brackets from 2008 Forester to match newer style 2-piston caliper (same size as WRX) and rear H6 brackets from a 2002 Outback). I seem to remember NAPA sells remans with a black epoxy coating but I never looked into that.

I have Powerstops on my trucks and like them. The main reason for going this route is, like you said, the powdercoated calipers and the Zinc plated rotors that will keep the non braking surface looking good for a while.

I went ahead and order them today. Hopefully they come with the brackets as pictured. I know the rears on both of my trucks didn't come with the brackets but the fronts did. We shall see.

I need to go through this thread again to make sure i get the right ss brake lines though.

I painted over my powerstop powdercoating. I lightly scuffed it with 400 grit and painted them with engine paint. They work well.

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The powerstops came with the brackets and mounted up with no issues!

I thought I'd post a quick 1-year update:

I'm really glad I did this brake work, and the calipers still look pretty nice. Though there has been a bit of yellowing of the clearcoat on the brackets due to heat, it seems the main body on the calipers has not yellowed much at all. The car stops wonderfully. I do have a faint squeaking/metallic grinding sound that I believe is coming from the front right brake that I'll need to investigate. Also I feel that the brake lines need to be re-bled because of the brake pedal dropping more on the first pump than on successive pumps. I ran into the problem last year as soon as I installed everything. I re-bled the brakes last fall for some improvement but still the symptom persists, so I believe there is still air in the lines.