Tehnation's Ballin on a budget rebuild!

Hate to be that guy but, Would it be time to buy a ej257 short block ? Or are you still at the same HP goals from post # 1 ?

hell no! I saw the promised land! I have a dream!

It’s an expensive dream.

gotta pay to play!

 

I'm thinking I may just do it myself, whats the worse that can happen, ynansb? I wouldnt mind having the experience, and at this point I can pull the motor and strip it down in under 6 hours.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Tehnation

gotta pay to play!

 

I'm thinking I may just do it myself, whats the worse that can happen, ynansb? I wouldnt mind having the experience, and at this point I can pull the motor and strip it down in under 6 hours.

 

Meh. Why the hell not, you’re right you have nothing to lose but time. The first time I built one from scratch was kinda fun. Don’t forget the o-rings in between the block halves and don’t use too much threebond and you’ll probably be fine.

no assembly lube? looks like the bearings were installed dry. Underdog (think it was him) had a thread about pressurizing the oil system with plant sprayer before first startup. Otherwise first start is truly a dry start.

Hard to say, I had to pull the engine the 2nd time because the head was cracked internally and was just flooding my oil with coolant. I primed it by cranking it without the fuel pump fuse, will have to look into this spray bottle method for next time.

 

Going to hone the block, and get rotating assembly balanced.

 

Still undecided about which oil pump, i may just clean my 11mm and reuse it.

 

At least building it myself I can blueprint the motor, so I can see whats going on in the future.

 

hmm.... I don't think I need any precision tools like a micrometer or caliper...I'm not going to measure anything because I'm just going to plastic gauge everything.

We used a brake power bleeder connected to the oil pressure sensor port. Rotate the engine slowly with ~20 psi of pressure in the bottle and it will feed oil throughout the motor.

plastiguage is kind of pain vs micrometer/calipers/bore gauge. But the tools are expensive.

really? I would think measuring the bore on the block, then measuring the crank, plus measuring the rod bore would be a lot more tedious and add more room for error imo. Versus just slapping it together without the pistons, and getting the gap from the plastic gauge. I just think the plasticgauge method would be a lot more straightforward and simpler, but yes extra steps.

 

By the time you are doing all your measurements and recording them and doing crazy math with decimals, I could have the block torqued and pulled apart. I like simple, plastic gauge is simple.

 

Plus yea, 10 dollar plastic gauge vs 500-1k+ for tools..... same result. I would rather deal with the simple annoyance rather pay to annoy myself with inches in decimals and math lol. I think plasticgauge is just idiot proof.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Tehnation

The biggest problem with plastigauge is precision and accuracy. There are times where you're essentially "guessing".

 

With a micrometer/bore gauge you can get both precision (repeatability) and accuracy. But you're right in that it costs money and takes time.

 

If you're planning to spin your block to 8+k though, I'm not sure I would count on plastigauge for longevity.

just to 7.5-8k. Nothing more. You people are going to make me do both now..... sigh.... I like plastigauge cause it's straightforward, essentially you should do BOTH measure and plastigauge to make sure your measurements are accurate. What are oem bearing and rod tolerances? Are they the same for all journals and rods? I gotta look it up. But I thought it was something like .0015 inches for mains, and .002 is what people normally do with modded engine. And plastigauge is accurate for that range sorta, so I can understand when you say guess, but your guessing between .002 and .0015 or more, which is where I want to be anyway. Less than .002 and .0015 can get you pretty damn close to where you want to be, I figured anything less than .002 and .0015 or more would be good enough, you think you need more than that? Plus gauges need to be calibrated, temperatures need to be right, all this other crap that you have to worry about to make sure its genuinely accurate.

Also its not like these motors have tons of options for bearing sizes, acl and king make like what 4 or 5 sizes including std? So its not like I can get what I want exactly anyway, the options for bearing sizes will force you into a range, unless you get into line boring etc. Edited September 16, 2020 by Tehnation

I think there are letter codes on the block that give the different bearing sizes used. they are not all the same. Those letters fall into +/_

 

m sprank, would know. There I go bringing up him again. You can PM him for help.

I do or I link him to threads that I think he may be help with

 

 

Look around page 1710 in the 2005 service manual. http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

Edited September 16, 2020 by Max Capacity

You did just spin your bearings. So plastiguage should be ok.

 

A local machine shop when building for high tpm buys bearings 100 boxes at a time, mikes them all, and returns the ones that aren't to spec. It seems not all bearings are created equal.

 

A .0005" requires more than harbor freight tools. And an actual heated to 70degrees space. And all the other crazy requirements. I have to wear a full face mask to measure in my unheated shop otherwise breathing on the part is enough to vary the readings.

 

In shop class, assembling engines involved reusing parts. For one engine, buying new bearings would have cost money, so my partner in crime soaked a sheet of notebook paper in oil and folded it until it fit. Plastiguage said it was fine. The engine passed the "crank must turn twice" test. He claimed to have rebuilt truck engines all the time with this method back home.

 

I'm from the government. I'm here to help. Really.

Connecting rod oil clearance:

Standard

0.017 — 0.045 mm (0.0007 — 0.0018 in)

 

Crankshaft oil clearance:

Standard

0.010 — 0.030 mm (0.0004 — 0.0012 in)

I didn't build it, so who's to say what the issue was.

 

How accurate can you get without line boring and only std, .026, .25, .5 and .001 main and rod bearing options? I'm not line boring the block so it's not like specifics really matter at that point, I don't even have the option, it's basically which is going to get me the closest and with those options plastigauge is more than enough to get you in the right range. I know how to use plastigauge very well, its not like its something foreign to me, I have used it for decades. And from what I'm seeing and aiming for I don't see why it can't get me to the closest size bearing that works. If this were a gm or honda motor and I had like 20 sizes available I would understand it but I can't get more accuracy without a line bore.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Tehnation

I could get more accuracy grinding the crank, but I ordered a new one, and a new crank shouldn't need to be ground. Supposedly there is some coating on the crank and grinding that off isn't good, so people tend to just get a new crank as opposed to grinding, how much of that is true i'm not sure, nasioc is a shit show but useful. I don't want to touch the crank or journals so my bearing size options are limited. Edited September 16, 2020 by Tehnation

Sorry. Your engine, your process. Best of luck.

lol dont take it the wrong way. I really am just asking a serious question! I am limited to only adjusting according to the bearings available, and doing all those measurements wouldn't dial in the best fitting bearing more so than plastigauging is all I was saying.

 

We are just discussing like civilized people, I already know how brutally honest you are and the advice is much appreciated!

Edited September 16, 2020 by Tehnation

Plastiguage or not, I would measure the bearing thickness. You might be able to swap them around to the best tolerances. Measure inside the house so the temps will be close enough.

 

This is how easy plastigauge is. Especially if you are aiming for a range, like .001 to .0015 or .0015 to .002.

I have a digital caliper and digital 0-1" micrometer. So Measuring the bearings is doable for more accuracy. I just don't have a bore gauge. But I have cheap shit accurate for 3 decimal places. Actually my micrometer is accurate to .0001. Edited September 16, 2020 by Tehnation

With plastiguage and bearing thickness, having bore guage might not be needed. hf has telescoping guage that does 3 digits accuracies

See! The bearing tip is very good information, didn't even think of that. So I'm going to measure and document every bearing, and from my plastigauge results I can dial them in better. I am aiming for the bigger end of oem specs.