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I am replacing head gaskets on my 2000 Outback and with some fidgiting and twisting and cursing and laying on top of the engine I actually got both heads out WITHOUT pulling the engine. Does anyone else have any experience with this?

 

I am disassembling the head, cleaning the gasket surface with several passes of wd-40 soaked sandpaper glued down to an old marble counter top, cleaning all parts, checking foe any wear, and re assembling with lube.

 

I'm pretty close to being able to put the engine back together. Does anyone have any words of experience or wisdom to impart?

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I am replacing head gaskets on my 2000 Outback and with some fidgiting and twisting and cursing and laying on top of the engine I actually got both heads out WITHOUT pulling the engine.

 

:spin::spin::spin:

 

I'm pretty close to being able to put the engine back together. Does anyone have any words of experience or wisdom to impart?

 

Yes. Pull the damn engine. You're going to have a lot of trouble properly torquing the head bolts with the block still in the car... and that means you're just going to have to redo this job in 6 months.

 

Plus, most of the shit that's plugged into the engine is either attached to the heads, or attached to the intake manifold, which you had to remove to get the heads out... you've already done 90% of the work of pulling the engine already. Just do it right.

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I've tried this method on the gen 4 I owned, did not work out. Still had a small headgasket leak and basically ended up pulling the engine right after.

 

Learned from that mistake and when I did the job on my 5th gen, took my time pulling the engine and made sure to send the heads to a machine shop to be properly resurfaced.

 

Also I've read that you really should avoid breathing aluminium dust. Let the machine shop deal with that.

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Don't judge, I don't have the money to send them to the machine shop, and the heads are not warped. Not everyone has a garage with an engine lift and all the tools in the world. I'm struggling to pay rent.
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I'd at least get a good straightedge and some feeler gauges to make sure the heads and deck are reasonably flat. I use a purpose made edge straight within .0002" over its length, but you can probably get buy with one of the cheaper options on Amazon in a pinch. If they're within spec you don't absolutely need to sand/machine anything.

 

Had an old timer in a machine shop suggest the same sandpaper/granite method for diy head cleanup, when I brought in my first head to get machined as a kid. So, you've got some basis. I'd check the flatness of your granite with the same straightedge/feeler gauges you use on the heads. It's also critical to get the surface finish right (ie proper paper selection, sanding direction). Of course, this assumes that Subaru controls their surface finish requirements by roughness average (Ra) and lay direction only. If they call out any other finish metrics, you're shooting blind just using sandpaper. I don't know their requirements offhand.

 

FWIW, last set of heads I chose not to send to get cut because they were flat within spec, I cleaned up with a white Roloc bristle disc on a die grinder. This does interrupt the lay of the finish, but is quick and is what Subaru techs apparently do per a service bulletin I saw a while back. I've also done it manually w/ plastic razor blades to good effect. Takes way longer, but you end up with the factory finish on the head surface (minus any peak flattening due to head clamping).

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DIY head resurfacing.

I've done it on 4 engines, and they are all still running.

Ask your self how was it done in the 40's and 50's with very few machine shops, especially in the rural areas.

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122588-diy-head-resurfacing-or-post-apocalyptic-machine-shop-techniques/?tab=comments#comment-1033633

O.

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DIY head resurfacing.

I've done it on 4 engines, and they are all still running.

Ask your self how was it done in the 40's and 50's with very few machine shops, especially in the rural areas.

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122588-diy-head-resurfacing-or-post-apocalyptic-machine-shop-techniques/?tab=comments#comment-1033633

O.

 

 

That link looks great. good find.

 

Just saying, back in those day's lot's of Farmers had "know how" and I'm pretty sure those old iron heads were not the same as these Aluminum heads.

 

I'm assuming the Farmers knew where to go to get things machined if they had to or figured it out.

 

My buddies auto machine shop, his family were old Farmers in town. In fact they are pretty good at welding cast iron, from learning on old farm tractors.

Edited by Max Capacity

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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The only real problem with removing the engine is a way to lift it and accurately lower it for remounting. This can be a serious hurdle for normal people. Our community should try to keep this in mind when less experienced/equipped people show up here asking for help.

 

Now that I have an engine crane I've loaned it to people a few times because they couldn't afford one. It's not like I'm using it 24/7.

 

OP, is there a Subaru community in your area? Perhaps someone could loan you a crane. I can't really bring mine from AZ.

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He can rent one also from a Rental place.

 

I have also loaned mine a few times to local members. It just sits in the shed taking up space. I've had it since about 2004.

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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This can be a serious hurdle for normal people. Our community should try to keep this in mind when less experienced/equipped people show up here asking for help.

 

I think telling people anything except a statement that they need to pull the engine to do headgaskets does more harm than telling them they need a $120 engine hoist.

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I think telling people anything except a statement that they need to pull the engine to do headgaskets does more harm than telling them they need a $120 engine hoist.

 

Did you just say discussing alternatives is harmful?

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Did you just say discussing alternatives is harmful?
Yes, because in this case the alternatives are ways to halfass the repair so it doesn't last. Discussing ways to halfass repairs is always harmful.
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I appreciate the helpful feedback, as opposed to the members who think their way is the only way and they have to school me with profanity. Open your mind a little.
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You seriously need to open your mind and consider alternatives. If everyone thought that way, we's still be "bleeding" sick people to remove toxins from their blood.
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Yes, because in this case the alternatives are ways to halfass the repair so it doesn't last. Discussing ways to halfass repairs is always harmful.

 

I suppose that is the reason I advocated removing the engine by use of the correct tool for the job. Just not *my* correct tool for the job since I'm not going to deliver it 700 miles away and then do the trip again later to pick it up again

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I appreciate the helpful feedback, as opposed to the members who think their way is the only way and they have to school me with profanity. Open your mind a little.

 

You seriously need to open your mind and consider alternatives. If everyone thought that way, we's still be "bleeding" sick people to remove toxins from their blood.

 

Yeah, no.

 

The head bolts need to be torqued with assembly lube, to 50 lb/ft in several steps and in a specific order, and then torque-to-angle. Even if you can get a torque wrench in there, you're going to have trouble getting them torqued down properly, it's going to be a PITA to torque them in order, 7 times by my count. And if you don't torque them properly, as I said, you're going to end up doing the same thing in 6 months or a year.

 

I've taken the heads off of a couple of engines (one semi-rebuild with forged pistons, and one simple HG job). It took some serious elbow grease, on an engine stand, to get those head bolts properly torqued down.

 

But hey, it's your car, your time, and you expense. Don't listen to me if you don't want to.

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:spin::spin::spin:

 

 

 

Yes. Pull the damn engine. You're going to have a lot of trouble properly torquing the head bolts with the block still in the car... and that means you're just going to have to redo this job in 6 months.

 

That’s not true just follow the torque sequence and then rotate each bolt approximately 180 degrees in the procedure that’s asked for. If he follows the procedure torquing heads in car is 100% fine. Dealership heavy line techs have done it that way before. You’re speaking to one.

 

The sand paper to head surface is what he needs to worry about. Goes without saying heads need machining or else it’s not going to last. Wd40 with razer blade and scotchbrite pads will be fine for the block side....

Edited by Jacobpockros
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