covertrussian Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 Keep in mind that the aftermarket arms (and or poly bushings) will makes things a bit rougher. It's fine on our nice VA roads, but good luck with anything north of us 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Keep in mind that the aftermarket arms (and or poly bushings) will makes things a bit rougher. It's fine on our nice VA roads, but good luck with anything north of us I think right now stock arms and lowered springs I think this would be an upgrade if I can get back on stock struts. you don't know how bad it is to fear any pothole lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 For my 3,000's post, here's a picture of the car enjoying the beautiful weather. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) My oil consumption has been getting pretty bad lately, at 4oz every 125 miles or so. I've looked for leaks above the engine and besides some oil in the PCV system, it didn't quite explain the half a cup a week of consumption. Got under the car, while I didn't see buckets of oil, I did notice that the oil filter had some oil on it, and the heads were oily (for a second gave me a headgasket heart attack). Now at first, I didn't think it was an external leak because I saw no oil drip spots in my parking lot, even with the oil filter cover removed from the belly pan (more on this in the post fix analysis). Doing some research I saw that oil cooler gasket was a fairly common leak point thus, ordered a new one from Subaru, when it arrived started taking it all apart, engine needed an oil change anyway. Using a very deep socket 24mm unbolted the housing, caused another shower of oil: I thought I could be lazy and replace the o-ring gasket without having to remove the coolant lines, yeah that's not gonna happen... Clamped the thermostat housing side of the line: On the head side I used a 3/8" vacuum hose block, spilled a minimal amount of coolant this way Yeah this guy has been leaking for a while... I've been losing oil for years to be frank, figured it was just my driving style and #subarulife When I looked inside the oil cooler I had another scarce, looked like a metal flake was inside the baffles, but luckily turned out to be some RTV. Oil coolers are impossible to clean out thoroughly, that's why they say to throw them away if are rebuilding a failed engine Next up is the new gasket (Part #: 21370KA001) vs the old one. Old one was pretty squished After a deep carb cleaning this thing looks almost new, ready to reinstall: While I was at it, sprayed down the underside of the engine to: Oil cooler installed and torqued to 40ft-lbs as per FSM: All done and ready to go! We'll see how much oil consumption there is at the end of the week! Update: After driving 140 miles nicely here is what my dip stick looks like, normally this would be right below the F at 120 miles: Post Fix Analysis Now that we know that it was indeed and external oil leak, coming from the oil filter housing, why on earth are there no oil spots on the ground? Part of the reason is the belly pan, oil will drip onto it, and when you start driving it just rolls off onto the ground. I did test with the little oil filter cover removed and still didn't see any oil drips though. I think this is related to oil pressures and RPM's: While parked, at idle, there is not a lot of oil pressure to push the oil past the leaking o-ring. Now at cold start idle, oil pressure is high, but oil is really thick thus it doesn't get through either. While driving at 2-3k rpm oil pressure will be high enough to leak past, but since you are driving it will roll off onto the road, or get burned off by the crosspipe (for weeks I would smell a faint burned oil smell when I would walk outside, thought it was someone's furnace!). So there you go, the mysterious disappearing oil, with no drips on the ground, magic act explained. Edited November 29, 2018 by covertrussian 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Did you notice the marks in the sealing surface of the oil cooler on the block ? I assume they look worse then they are. I soaked my oil cooler in acetone when I had it off back in May 2012. I laughed when you said 3000 post, you got some catching up to do...Really, with all your knowledge your a asset to this forum. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 That’s because his posts are pretty much 8-10x compared to other posts :-) Even with a fast internet connection, it still takes a bit to load this thread because of the seriously large number of good pictures present. Appreciate you taking the time to take pictures of what you do. I know from trying, that it’s not easy and requires deliberate discipline to stick to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Did you guys know that we can squeeze some extra negative camber out of stock crash bolts? I'm dubbing this "Camber Goes to 11 Mod". Excellent writeup - as we've come to expect. Thank you. Curious how much this dynamically changed your toe after dialing-in your camber settings. And did you really mean "camber" bolts? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Did you notice the marks in the sealing surface of the oil cooler on the block ? I assume they look worse then they are. I soaked my oil cooler in acetone when I had it off back in May 2012. I didn't notice any marks on the head it self, or any marks on the old gasket. I think it's just age related. This really is a testament against cheap aftermarket oil filter sandwich plates too, if my OEM setup leaked after 10 years (I'm ashamed to admit how long it's been leaking ), then don't expect more then 10 years on a GOOD aftermarket sandwhich plate. Better hope you buy 10 extra o-rings from the manufacture before they go out of business. I laughed when you said 3000 post, you got some catching up to do...Really, with all your knowledge your a asset to this forum. I used to be a post whore on my Nissan forums, but I grew up and learned to make my posts be more meaningful . That’s because his posts are pretty much 8-10x compared to other posts :-) Even with a fast internet connection, it still takes a bit to load this thread because of the seriously large number of good pictures present. Appreciate you taking the time to take pictures of what you do. I know from trying, that it’s not easy and requires deliberate discipline to stick to it. Thank you for the kind words! I do my best to size the pictures as small as possible to reduce bandwidth and load on the forum too! It really does take a lot of time, especially taking and resizing images, but it's also kind of relaxing, kind of like cleaning guns. Excellent writeup - as we've come to expect. Thank you. Curious how much this dynamically changed your toe after dialing-in your camber settings. And did you really mean "camber" bolts? Thanks, I really appreciate it . Toe wise, since one side was already at 11 the difference was tiny, not even 1/32's toe in. I'm using toe plates so my measurement accuracy is limited, but tends to be within 1/32's. I did mean camber bolts, crash bolts is actually a negative nickname that's given to them since aftermarket versions tend to get loose and slip and or break. That's because aftermarket version of the bolt has to be skinnier then the stock bolt, which makes them be dangerously thin. Here is a crash bolt vs a proper camber bolt (like subaru's) Coming from a Nissan, I was surprised Subaru to used camber adjustable bolts OEM, but even more surprised that they DON'T slip . Edited November 20, 2018 by covertrussian 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebourne Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 That’s because his posts are pretty much 8-10x compared to other posts :-) Even with a fast internet connection, it still takes a bit to load this thread because of the seriously large number of good pictures present. Appreciate you taking the time to take pictures of what you do. I know from trying, that it’s not easy and requires deliberate discipline to stick to it. I have learned not to click on updates to this thread if I don't have time, a beverage and a good screen to look at! Good stuff always. pic thread build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I didn't notice any marks on the head it self, or any marks on the old gasket. I think it's just age related. This really is a testament against cheap aftermarket oil filter sandwich plates too, if my OEM setup leaked after 10 years (I'm ashamed to admit how long it's been leaking ), then don't expect more then 10 years on a GOOD aftermarket sandwhich plate. Better hope you buy 10 extra o-rings from the manufacture before they go out of business. I hated sensor plates and ditched them long time ago - they can be avoided. I put an oil temp sensor where the stock pressure sensor is (front galley), and use the port in the rear galley to remote mounted VDO pressure sensor which has low pressure terminal (at 12psi IIRC) that connects to the ECU in lieu of the stocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 I hated sensor plates and ditched them long time ago - they can be avoided. I put an oil temp sensor where the stock pressure sensor is (front galley), and use the port in the rear galley to remote mounted VDO pressure sensor which has low pressure terminal (at 12psi IIRC) that connects to the ECU in lieu of the stocker. I'm actually deciding if I want to put an oil temp sensor in one of the galley plugs, or if I should throw it in the oil pan when I replace it (current pan is RUSTY). Oil pan is set to be the most accurate, but welding it is not a good idea due to thinness of the metal. I've been looking at no weld bulkhead options and not finding anything in 1/8npt. This is why I'm thinking of just putting the oil temp sensor in the oil galley and calling it a day. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Front galley is fine. Accuracy? Accurate enough, you're actually measuring the oil before it goes into bearings, so that's the perfect spot. Reading in the oil pan is not that ideal nor accurate - due to the mass of oil the readings will be delayed. At least that's my theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somac Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Everyone's got a different theory for the oil temp sensor, it seems. I'm running my oil pressure sensor in the stock idiot light sender location and my temp sensor is going in the rear galley plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrig Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Everyone's got a different theory for the oil temp sensor, it seems. I'm running my oil pressure sensor in the stock idiot light sender location and my temp sensor is going in the rear galley plug. same set up here . but i think the best place for oil temp is the oil pan . on the block you get affected maybe more by the heat of the block , piston . but for me is not so important , it s a reference , when i know between summer and winter my engine reach is operating tempereture . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Right the biggest reason for not using block is the heat from the block causing inaccurate readings. How prone to failures are the temp sensors, as in catastrophic probe separated from the sensor? If even marginally prone, having it in the oil pan would be safest, since it shouldn't get past the oil pickup screen. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 How prone to failures are the temp sensors, as in catastrophic probe separated from the sensor? If even marginally prone, having it in the oil pan would be safest, since it shouldn't get past the oil pickup screen. I am using PLX temp sensor. Seems to be a single piece of brass, so nothing to separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utc_pyro Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) As unclemat stated, most of the fluid sensors are a single peace toward the measured fluid. There isn't much of a way for them to break off unlike things like IAT sensors. I'd be more worried about external leaks. Also the oil galley may be more accurate than the pan, as it's showing the working temperature when it's lubricating the motor. It’s after the oil cooler/heater, but before the super hot turbo oil. The pan temperature will likely lag a bit during warmup, and show higher during operation. If you follow the oil path, the front plug is more or less right above the output of the pump. So if you wanted the MOST accurate setup you might want to put the sensor in the front galley, and a pressure sensor in the rear. Or even better, use a combo sensor in the front one. If you're interested in the combo sensor deal I've been contemplating building an interpreter module that would drive the OEM pressure switch output (coded flashes of oil light) and feed the TGV input for logging. This might make me get off my rear and build a prototype. Edited November 26, 2018 by utc_pyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Went ahead and ordered an AEM oil temp gauge. I like the front oil galley idea, thing will stick it in there and finally wire in my oil pressure gauge (been installed but not connected for 3 years?). Bosch sensor sounds good, but it costs more then the AEM oil temp gauge ended up being so no biggie, plus I do like visual feedback (though logging is more useful in the long run). AEM should support serial to USB (like wideband) so I should be able to log it too, as long as my 3rd USB port doesn't complain. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Quick oil update! After driving 140 miles nicely here is what my dip stick looks like, normally this would be right below the F at 120 miles: 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Everyone's got a different theory for the oil temp sensor, it seems. I'm running my oil pressure sensor in the stock idiot light sender location and my temp sensor is going in the rear galley plug. ^This. When I converted to the KB Performance Oil Pan (OPan) and Holy Header setup, my DEFI sandwich adapter, which worked flawlessly for over 12 years with zero leaks (the gasket on the oil cooler (OC) did leak and was replaced under warranty) no longer fit, especially with the extended Subaru (and Mazda) Tokyo Roki black filters. Incidentally, the DEFI setup is the $700+ factory 3-gauge (OT, OP, BP) accessory, so Subaru ensured it met their standards. So after the under engine KB upgrades, I put the DEFI OP sensor in the OP warning sensor port and put the DEFI OT sensor in the 2nd port of the KB oil pan. May move that sensor to the aft galley, depending on how accurate the readings are. The one thing I did like about the OT sensor in the sandwich adapter, was that it gave me a post-OPan, post-OC temp reading, and that gave me a dynamic view/correlation between elevated oil temps and heavy on-boost/turbo-induced oil heating. I presume that with the sensor in the OPan, the oil temps might actually be higher with turbo dumping directly into the Opan. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Quick oil update! After driving 140 miles nicely here is what my dip stick looks like, normally this would be right below the F at 120 miles: Looks like a successful oil leak fix. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 ^This. When I converted to the KB Performance Oil Pan (OPan) and Holy Header setup, my DEFI sandwich adapter, which worked flawlessly for over 12 years with zero leaks (the gasket on the oil cooler (OC) did leak and was replaced under warranty) no longer fit, especially with the extended Subaru (and Mazda) Tokyo Roki black filters. Incidentally, the DEFI setup is the $700+ factory 3-gauge (OT, OP, BP) accessory, so Subaru ensured it met their standards. So after the under engine KB upgrades, I put the DEFI OP sensor in the OP warning sensor port and put the DEFI OT sensor in the 2nd port of the KB oil pan. May move that sensor to the aft galley, depending on how accurate the readings are. The one thing I did like about the OT sensor in the sandwich adapter, was that it gave me a post-OPan, post-OC temp reading, and that gave me a dynamic view/correlation between elevated oil temps and heavy on-boost/turbo-induced oil heating. I presume that with the sensor in the OPan, the oil temps might actually be higher with turbo dumping directly into the Opan. This is the first I've seen of these fitment issues regarding KB and the defi setup. Would the sandwich adapter fit with the smaller blue Suabaru filter? I have the KB oil pan and Holy Headers, but haven't installed my defi guages/sensors yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Now that I think about it, AIR, the HH inpinged on the sandwich adapter. They fit with the OC, just not the OC + the SA. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 Quick oil update! After driving 140 miles nicely here is what my dip stick looks like, normally this would be right below the F at 120 miles: Thinking more on this (I know dangerous!)... Now that we know that it was indeed and external oil leak, coming from the oil filter housing, why on earth are there no oil spots on the ground? Part of the reason is the belly pan, oil will drip onto it, and when you start driving it just rolls off onto the ground. I did test with the little oil filter cover removed and still didn't see any oil drips though. I think this is related to oil pressures and RPM's: While parked, at idle, there is not a lot of oil pressure to push the oil past the leaking o-ring. Now at cold start idle, oil pressure is high, but oil is really thick thus it doesn't get through either. While driving at 2-3k rpm oil pressure will be high enough to leak past, but since you are driving it will roll off onto the road, or get burned off by the crosspipe (for weeks I would smell a faint burned oil smell when I would walk outside, thought it was someone's furnace!). So there you go, the mysterious disappearing oil, with no drips on the ground, magic act explained . 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 ^This is what I found with mine as well. There was a lot of dirt-impregnated oil above the OC itself and streaked down the bottom of the block and alongside the oil pan, but no noticeable drips when parked. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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