Another cylinder #4 burnt exhaust valve thread 2.5GT

I was recently trying to determine the health of my motor and found out it had burnt exhaust valves on cylinder number four.

 

I read a couple threads on here stating that it is the factory tune, I don't know enough about tuning or turbo cars to speak.

 

One of the main reasons I started this thread was to find out if I need to have my heads finished to a certain RA if I use cosworth head gaskets. I read that cometic head gaskets can be finicky if the finish isn't what they call for.

 

I'm going to pull the motor and i'd like to know if I should do rod bearings at the same time? Are these engines known for spinning rod bearings? Should I do them while the engine is out?

 

It's going to take a long time before I have a running car again and i'm ok with it. This all started because I wanted to get rid of the uppipe cat, turns out the turbo was in real bad shape so I wanted to determine the health of the engine. The engine seems like it will be solid after this is taken care of.

 

I plan on buying a turbo, Cobb AP, cobb intake, arp studs, cosworth gaskets, solid mass flywheel conversion, killer b pickup

They are known for spinning crank bearings when the oil is low/gone not sure you budget for all that but you could buy an assembled new shortblock and have your head decked and be up an running with peace of mind a lot sooner

Do it right the first time.

 

The heads should be rebuilt by a good machine shop. Have them check the short block too and do what it needs.

 

How bad is your turbo ?

I'm going to pull the motor and i'd like to know if I should do rod bearings at the same time? Are these engines known for spinning rod bearings? Should I do them while the engine is out?

Probably not necessary, as long as it gets the oil serviced as it should be, the bottom end of the engine should last 200K-300K miles. The valve clearances are known to be tight from the factory, that plus the stock tune leads to the burnt valve issue.

 

Replacing bearings in the bottom end requires splitting the case. By the time that becomes necessary, it might make more sense to just put in a new shortblock so you'd get a new crank, bearings and pistons all ready to go from the factory without a lot of precision work required.

They are known for spinning crank bearings when the oil is low/gone not sure you budget for all that but you could buy an assembled new shortblock and have your head decked and be up an running with peace of mind a lot sooner

 

I don't have the money for a new short block if I did i'd just buy it and put in forged pistons. I never experienced it, but i'd read over the years these engines do spin rod bearings.

 

Do it right the first time.

 

The heads should be rebuilt by a good machine shop. Have them check the short block too and do what it needs.

 

How bad is your turbo ?

 

I thought i'd be safe based on the health of the motor just taking the heads to a shop and having them do whatever is needed. I'll admit the leakdown tester is a harbor freight piece of junk, but it worked.

 

There is a ton of shaft play up/down, in/out.

 

Probably not necessary, as long as it gets the oil serviced as it should be, the bottom end of the engine should last 200K-300K miles. The valve clearances are known to be tight from the factory, that plus the stock tune leads to the burnt valve issue.

 

Replacing bearings in the bottom end requires splitting the case. By the time that becomes necessary, it might make more sense to just put in a new shortblock so you'd get a new crank, bearings and pistons all ready to go from the factory without a lot of precision work required.

 

I could've looked it up before I asked, I thought they would be serviceable rod bearings without splitting the case.

 

I've set lash on engines and read don't set the exhaust too tight or you could burn a valve/s.

 

I agree that is a better alternative.

 

 

 

If this job can't be done right without taking the short block to a machine shop then

i'm definitely selling the car.

I finally completed the necessary mental gymnastics to convince myself to move forward with this car. Then I found out the cylinder was scored as well as number two, yet number two made good compression. I got a brand new oem turbo for 200 shipped because the seller incorrectly listed it and it convinced me to move forward. Now I just can't find any common sense in buying a short block, even if the car didn't have rust underneath.

 

After reading for hours and hours it's highly discouraging. I've enjoyed the ease of working on subarus over the years and the genius simplicity, but there has to be a point where common sense intervenes. I've never paid to have anything other than tires and alignments done and I wanted to learn about turbocharging. If my work schedule wasn't insane i'd have researched more thoroughly and I wouldn't be here.

 

I have never seen a list this long. Cracked pistons, burnt valves, bad factory tune, banjo filters killing turbos and camshafts, uppipe cats breaking apart, egt sensors failing and killing turbos, oil pickups failing, tob's eating the front bearing retainer, exhaust cam gears exploding. The sad thing is i'm a glutton for punishment and if I don't get what i'm asking i'm going to buy a shortblock. I've never been beat or given up. If I sell this car i'll never buy another subaru again, but if I keep it I might learn to love it.

 

I can't help but think I should've bought that s60r instead.

Cylinder number 4 was scored way worse than 2, I was just making a comparison. Both 1 and 3 were flawless. I have no idea what contributed to this but apparently some speculate it's either fuel line routing, tune or manifold design. 1-3 were 120 psi and 4 was sixty with 160k on the clock.

 

I realize many fan boys often go into attack/defense mode, but the facts stand. I'm just looking at it from a logical viewpoint. Not to mention there is a ton of discouraging/dissuading or false info on here from people who have no business turning wrenches let alone giving advice. I see on nasioc people are quick to stomp it out, but not so much on here. Nevertheless there is a lot of great people on here with amazing info one couldn't acquire through any other means.

I felt bad for you until you said you got a brand new oem turbo for $200 Unfortunately these things happen and you have to make the right decision for your wallet. If you decide to not fix the car and you have a brand new vf46, I'll give you $300 plus shipping

If I wasn't poor I would just throw money at it with a smile and I wouldn't be so butt hurt right now.

 

It's a vf40, I was going to go with a vf46 but supposedly it was more or less a marketing gimmick. I have no idea if the claims are accurate honestly. http://pretuning.com/2012/06/ihi-vf40-and-vf46-turbo-comparison/

 

I have a melett chra, but I doubt you want that.

It's sad that it took this for me to realize why there is so many on craigslist constantly with blown motors or turbo issues. Many on here act like this is normal, acceptable, and it just happens it can happen with any turbo car. I wish i'd kept track when I was looking for parts of how many came and went that were listed with major problems, it's something you'd have to see to believe. As far as i'm concerned this motor is a complete and utter lemon. I will never own another subaru in my life. The are oil burning pieces of shit that throw rod bearings, pop head gaskets and get poor fuel mileage.

 

Even when people are presented with undeniable facts they would still rather live in denial. It's a major reason this country is the way it is at its current state. Denial is unbelievably powerful. Fan boys and subaru employees will not accept the truth for what it is. It was priceless to read one subaru employees posts on here defending subaru when typing about major problems, and countless others.

 

I have to say i'm very glad when I called up the local "machinist" he recommended to just buy new heads about eight months ago and that was the final straw. I would've ended up fixing this piece of shit. Where I live there's a ton of inbred half wits that think they're good at what they do. I'm sure this guy is no exception. I have never in my life been told no I don't want to do machine work for you and take your money just go buy new. Then laughed at when I asked if he could install the cams and adjust the valves. Apparently math is too hard, he'd have to buy all the sizes available rather than do calculations to figure out what sizes are needed. I've done valve adjustments with the same designed motors and i've ordered the sizes I needed and got it right the first time, but I figured if he had it i'd just let him do it.

 

I've been driving an s60r for the last six months and low and behold I haven't had a single aformentioned issue on that wonderful list a few posts back. Not only that this car with around the same mileage has barely any rust at all underneath. I can't believe I was going to fix that subaru with the rust and all. I didn't have to sink in fifteen hundred dollars right away to make it decent either. How weird?

It's normal for people to tune their cars, push their limits, beat the shit out of the car, blow it up and sell it. Afterall, they are selling it, right? When you don't properly maintain a vehicle, things go wrong. There are members on here with factory tunes and factory turbos that don't have issues, it all depends on the owner. I don't know the history behind your car and you probably don't know the full history either unless you bought it brand new.

 

Don't get frustrated with the brand because a machine shop doesnt want to deal with you. Subaru is probably the most common motor running through machine shops so the thought that they didn't want to help means they don't know what they're doing.

 

You need to realize all vehicles have problems, not to mention you are speaking about your 13 year old used and abused vehicle with how many miles? People like you get upset when things don't go your way and always end up blaming the brand. You destroyed your car, if you want to be mad, be mad at yourself. I've been turning wrenches for 12 years now so please tell me how many vehicles you have had the pleasure or displeasure working on the say Subaru is an awful brand? To say Volvo is great compared to the one Subaru you owed is very naive on your part. I didn't want to waste my time typing this response but I couldn't help myself. One thing is going to go wonky on the Volvo and you will be crying on a Volvo forum about how crappy that car is too. Adios!

Can’t say I disagree with the OP. The documented issues on this forum seem slightly more than just isolated cases of manufacturing defects or people doing stupid stuff. I for one have experienced many of these issues first hand on my pretty much stock 05 OBXT that are more than just issues of a bad previous owner who neglected the car. Throw out bearing exploding at 75k miles, burnt exhaust valve at 98k miles were the two biggest issues for me in a long list of other nagging issues that keep popping up. I’ll say that despite all the finicky things that pop up, this car has yet to leave me stranded *knock on a seriously large piece of wood*. What’s next you might wonder? Now it’s time to figure out why my car is misfiring again, 6k miles after my full rebuild. I’d like to see this thing eclipse 200k and I’m pretty confident that it can, but the time and money required to get it there is a big question mark given it’s track record

Funny how some people have constant problems, and others simply don't. I've run 3 '05 Legacy GTs to high mileage with nary a significant problem. Why? Cause I listen. When the TOB starts complaining, I don't wait for it to blow up, I just replace it. When knowledgeable people tell me I need a tune to prevent burnt exhaust valves, I get a tune. When knowledgeable people tell me I need a catless up-pipe to protect my turbo & engine, I get a catless up-pipe. I don't use cheap oil, and I don't spin rod bearings. I keep the coolant level up, and I don't blow head gaskets.

If you know a better way to drift through the snow in a 250HP AWD wagon for a $10K purchase and $1K/year maintenance, I'm all ears.

If you think maintaining a high-mileage turbocharged Subaru is hard, you should try maintaining a high-mileage turbocharged BMW. My wife's 335xi is a needy BITCH.

It's normal for people to tune their cars, push their limits, beat the shit out of the car, blow it up and sell it. Afterall, they are selling it, right? When you don't properly maintain a vehicle, things go wrong. There are members on here with factory tunes and factory turbos that don't have issues, it all depends on the owner. I don't know the history behind your car and you probably don't know the full history either unless you bought it brand new.

 

Don't get frustrated with the brand because a machine shop doesnt want to deal with you. Subaru is probably the most common motor running through machine shops so the thought that they didn't want to help means they don't know what they're doing.

 

You need to realize all vehicles have problems, not to mention you are speaking about your 13 year old used and abused vehicle with how many miles? People like you get upset when things don't go your way and always end up blaming the brand. You destroyed your car, if you want to be mad, be mad at yourself. I've been turning wrenches for 12 years now so please tell me how many vehicles you have had the pleasure or displeasure working on the say Subaru is an awful brand? To say Volvo is great compared to the one Subaru you owed is very naive on your part. I didn't want to waste my time typing this response but I couldn't help myself. One thing is going to go wonky on the Volvo and you will be crying on a Volvo forum about how crappy that car is too. Adios!

 

 

I'm not surprised at all to see a post like this after your post prior to it. This just happens it's totally normal, nothing to see here, move along. The best part is one baseless assumption after another, that is impressive and common place on online forums and the internet in general. I wonder what you'll find to say about me next why not attack my character and my ability as a technician next that's a good idea. You actually said I destroyed the car, yup in the five hundred miles I drove it.

 

I was just giving one simple example with the volvo that is all, to focus on that and draw it out changes nothing. The most important part about the volvo is the rust comparison. It makes it enjoyable and much easier to work on a car that doesn't have cancer all under it, just waiting to poke through. That alone is worth the cost of a new car to me after years of fighting with rust.

 

This was the first post in my life that ever even remotely resembled anything like this. It seems like you're the one crying and doing anything you can think of to defend your fragile mind from accepting the truth of the matter. I'm just stating facts based on experience and research. If I loved the car in the end and rebuilt it and drove it to this day i'd still accept the truth for what it was, there is no changing it. I wish I made a spreadsheet of the cars I ran into in that year time frame on craigslist in this area with major problems, but even then people like you would just shit post incoherently on online forums.

 

I knew more people than most growing up where I did and many people while in high school had turbo cars with high mileage and not one of them ran into problems like this at all. Not to mention I knew three people personally that put turbos on high mileage hondas/acuras and had no issues, plus about four others that drove around with us to car shows and raced with us. These kids relentlessly hammered these cars.

 

I must be better than you based on your flawed logic because i've been wrenching for eighteen years and literally never paid to have a car fixed in my life. I worked with countless people that were absolutely worthless as technicians and were just parts changers. It doesn't take much skill to wrench on a car. Many people in the automotive repair field are not technicians there is a huge difference.

My logic is based on my experiences in the field. Unfortunately, yes, this is a common occurrence. One every week or two pops up with the same problem. I clearly stated it was most likely abused before you bought it. It blew up in your possession, so yes, you blew it up. You bought the rusty car, don't play victim and act like I'm the bad guy. I'm definitely calling your bluff on being a tech for 18 years. No tech in the field that long would be asking those questions and try to back up their knowledge by saying "I had friends with turbo cars". No technician would buy a rusty turbo Subaru without doing their due diligence prior to the purchase.

 

You're right, there is a huge difference between parts changers and real technicians. It doesn't take much skill to be a parts changer.

Did you get that out of your system...

 

Tell us where you live, that may help us understand why you can't get a straight answer and where to find a good shop.

 

I'm 63 y/o, have been playing with cars for a long time. Here where I live there is a great network of auto repair shops. My trusted machine shop is well known in a 50+ miles radius. They always have at least one or two pair of these heads in the shop.

I stop in every now and then just to say hi. They are old family friends, the owner's father went to school with my oldest sister. If you ask auto repair shops which machine shop they use, I'm sure one will tell you.

Find a good repair shop and build a relationship with them. I use the same guy my dad did and my son uses him too.

 

Remember you get a lot more help with sugar then with sour grapes.