2008 3.0R Limited suspension questions

I'm looking to make my 2008 3.0R Ltd handle a little better. I'm going to concentrate on the front-end first and I have a few questions I hope you can help me with.

 

She's got 96K miles and feels a little sloppy. Polyurethane bushings lower control arms are already on order from Energy Suspensions. What diameter front anti-sway bar does she come with stock? I need to know so I can order poly bushings for it.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6393201&cc=1440459&jsn=337

 

She bottoms out easily too. I was planning to replace the dampers with new Bilstein B6s front and rear but am wondering if their B8s would fit?

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/297550/name/Bilstein-B6-4600-Heavy-Duty-Suspension-Strut-Assembly-Subaru-Legacy-Front-Right-35-118312

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/305862/name/F4-BE5-B832-HO-Bilstein-Subaru-Legacy

 

I'm interested in lowering her a bit but since I live in Upstate NY snow is a concern. I found springs from Tein that will lower her about -0.9 inch front & rear. Is that too much? Opinions from snow country owners are appreciated. Their spring rates are as follows - (F): 219lbs/in (3.9kg/mm) and ®: 308lbs/in (5.5kg/mm). How do they compare to the stock springs. A firmer ride would be fine but not a softer one.

http://www.carid.com/2008-subaru-legacy-suspension-systems/tein-h-tech-coil-springs-kit-59281216.html

 

Whiteline has an Offset Top Mount for the front strut that provide Camber/Caster Correction. You set them for either Camber: -1 deg 30 min, or Caster: +0 deg 45min. What advantage do they offer over stock settings if any? I live in the Catskills and the roads are twisty. If they will sharpen the steering response I'll install them.

http://www.carid.com/2008-subaru-legacy-suspension-systems/whiteline-strut-mount-61627762.html

 

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I progress. This is my first Subaru and so far I love her. That doesn't mean she can't be better. Thanks in advance.

as far as bilstein struts go, I found the best prices on partsgeek and rockauto for the B6. That seems to be our best option for these cars. I ended up ordering a full set from rockauto for $620.98 shipped because I had a 5% off coupon, I've ordered other things from them also (like kyb rear strut mounts). If you order from partsgeek, use "save15" to get $15 off.

 

Im getting the polyurathane (energy) LCA bushings put on my car on Friday. So far the new bilsteins and mounts have made a nice improvement on my car. The only issue remaining is the torn LCAs making my steering around corners just a bit vague.

Thanks for the tips. This is what I found but I'll follow-up of Rock and Parts-geek.

 

Per the Shockwarehouse site:

Complete Set Front and Rear

Bilstein 4600 Heavy Duty (B6) $634.14 set of 4 (Free Shipping)

 

I haven't ordered them yet but it is tempting. I'm no stranger to suspension upgrades, just not on a Subaru. I installed adjustable Koni Sports on my 2001 Cadillac Catera Sport along with a mix of Powerflex and Pedders poly bushings, 2004 GTO springs, all of that front & rear, even GTO front brakes. The Catera was a German Opel in disguise. It responded nicely to the suspension upgrades and I'm hoping the Legacy will too.

 

The Catera benefited from Opel's DTM and Vauxhall's BTM racing. We know how successful Subaru has been in World Rallying. With the snow we get, and crappy roads because of it, I wanted that rally developed AWD under me. Being how I am I can't leave well enough alone hence the search for the right upgrades. I know nothing about Subies so the wisdom I glean here will guide my choices.

 

Once I'm done with the front end I'll shift my attention to the rear suspension. Poly bushings are a given and from what I've read so far a thicker rear anti-sway bar will add a little oversteer. With so much engine ahead of the front axles I feel a lot of understeer. The thicker rear bar will help neutralize that so that's also on my list.

 

Bigger brakes all around are desirable but beyond my budget right now. Maybe next year. Naturally lighter wheels along with ultra performance rubber are part of the plan.

http://www.carid.com/2008-subaru-legacy-brakes/stoptech-slotted-performance-big-brake-kit-59082549.html

The front sway bar should be 21mm. You should replace the wet noodle stock end links if you have not yet.

 

I have an 09 3.0R Limited with the following suspension/brake mods:

Grimmspeed Brake Master Cylinder Brace

Hawk HPS brake pads

Tribeca 25mm front sway bar with Energy Suspension bushings

JDM 20mm rear sway bar with AVO polyurethane rsb bushings

AVO reinforced rsb mounts

Perrin front and rear endlinks

Cusco front strut tower brace

Cusco rear strut tower brace

 

I love the way my car handles and stops. I also downsized to 04 STI BBS wheels with 235/45/17 Conti DWS06's. I am very pleased with those tires. At some point I will get the Bilstein HD struts. I should note that to install the Tribeca fsb I had to drop the headers down slightly. I also have Centric Premium rotors I need to put on. I hope to accomplish that soon.

The front sway bar should be 21mm. You should replace the wet noodle stock end links if you have not yet.

 

I have an 09 3.0R Limited with the following suspension/brake mods:

Grimmspeed Brake Master Cylinder Brace

Hawk HPS brake pads

Tribeca 25mm front sway bar with Energy Suspension bushings

JDM 20mm rear sway bar with AVO polyurethane rsb bushings

AVO reinforced rsb mounts

Perrin front and rear endlinks

Cusco front strut tower brace

Cusco rear strut tower brace

 

I love the way my car handles and stops. I also downsized to 04 STI BBS wheels with 235/45/17 Conti DWS06's. I am very pleased with those tires. At some point I will get the Bilstein HD struts. I should note that to install the Tribeca fsb I had to drop the headers down slightly. I also have Centric Premium rotors I need to put on. I hope to accomplish that soon.

 

Sounds like we're thinking along the same lines, tightening up the handling and improving the brakes, but I have a few questions about your car.

 

1. What's a Brake Master Cylinder Brace, and why do we need one?
   
2. Are RSB and FSB the anti-sway bars?
   
3. Are the RSB mounts prone to failure, hence the need for reinforced ones?
   

I'm still shopping around, compiling a list, and setting priorities. I've only had the car a little over 3 weeks, driving and comparing ride and handling to my old car. The Catera reacted well to the Konis and Poly Bushings. She was already pretty neutral in the dry, kicking the rear end out only if I goosed the throttle in the wet and gave her the Scandi Flick.

 

The Legacy's AWD gives her a different feel, one thing being I can feel the steering wheel tugging in my hands while hitting the on/off ramps and long fast curves in general. It's not bad but it is noticeable. I'm not looking to win races. I just want to enjoy the mountain roads around here. The H6 is powerful enough. If I wanted more power I would've bought a Spec B or something similar. I just want my car to feel more planted in the curves.

 

Anyway, I have to get the Bilsteins first. My car has 96K miles and bottoms at dips in the road if I take them too fast, and I always seem to take them too fast. If I'm going to dismantle the front end it makes sense to do the LCA bushings and strut mount too. Not being a rich man I'm concentrating on the front end first. The rear end will get its after next year's Tax Refund.

 

I've had good luck with Discs and pads from BrakePerformance. I installed their slotted discs on my Catera using both its stock front single pot calipers and later dual pot GTO calipers loaded with C5 Corvette pads. I'm looking for a similar upgrade for the Legacy. There's a Big Brake Kit from Stop Tech but it's pricey. In ot's place I'm looking for something from the Subaru family like maybe WRX calipers and bigger discs. Something along those lines. Until then I'll probably start with the BrakePerformance slotted discs, steel braided lines, with fresh pads and brake fluid.

 

Thanks for your help.

Sounds like we're thinking along the same lines, tightening up the handling and improving the brakes, but I have a few questions about your car.

 

1. What's a Brake Master Cylinder Brace, and why do we need one?
   
2. Are RSB and FSB the anti-sway bars?
   
3. Are the RSB mounts prone to failure, hence the need for reinforced ones?
   

 

1- The brake master cylinder brace bolts to strut tower and presses lightly on the end of the master cylinder. It keeps the firewall from flexing as much so you get a more direct braking feel. Its most noticeable when really standing on the brakes.

2- Yes. They are the anti-sway bars.

3- Yes. The rear mounts are weak. People have bent the stock mounts even with stock sway bars. I am pleased with my AVO mounts and they were easy to install. There is a DIY for them in the DIY section. The big thing there is to do one side at a time so the rear diff carrier stays bolted in.

If you follow legwag's advice, you will notice a big difference. The Tein H Techs are decent springs, but I've heard bad things about the Tein S Techs. Due to the front headers on the 3.0, your front sway bar options are a bit limited. The Tribeca bar is a great upgrade, because you can get the bar at the dealer for about $75, and it's 25mm. Lower control arm bushings are a must. I decided to replace the entire lower control arm, with preloaded Mevotechs, because I needed new ball joints anyway, and I don't have a reliable shop with a press nearby. I have the Whiteline adjustable top hats, and they allow me to run stock tires and not rub, because I'm 1.5" lower than stock Legacy height. I did all the suspension at one time, so I can't really say that I noticed a major performance upgrade from them. I just notice a much better all around driving experience, but that's from all new suspension.

On my 2.5i, I did:

 

Koni adjustables/Epic Engineering springs (rebadged Eibach springs)

Whiteline 22mm FSB/Perrin 22mm RSB

Kartboy endlinks all around

AVO reinforcement RSB brackets

Whiteline steering rack bushings

Whiteline LCA bushings

 

Brakes:

Hawk HPS pads

Centric Premium rotors

SS braided lines

 

That thing handled on rails.

 

EDIT: Question for anyone who can answer:

 

Are the 2.5i and 3.0R front crossmember identical? I remember I had to replace my entire steering rack when the LGT folks were installing the 2015 STI rack on theirs and I couldn't because of the front crossmember. I'd like to know for future reference.

Send us a PM, I can get you better pricing on those.

 

-Brian

I'm looking to make my 2008 3.0R Ltd handle a little better. I'm going to concentrate on the front-end first and I have a few questions I hope you can help me with.

 

She bottoms out easily too. I was planning to replace the dampers with new Bilstein B6s front and rear but am wondering if their B8s would fit?

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/297550/name/Bilstein-B6-4600-Heavy-Duty-Suspension-Strut-Assembly-Subaru-Legacy-Front-Right-35-118312

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/305862/name/F4-BE5-B832-HO-Bilstein-Subaru-Legacy

 

I'm interested in lowering her a bit but since I live in Upstate NY snow is a concern. I found springs from Tein that will lower her about -0.9 inch front & rear. Is that too much? Opinions from snow country owners are appreciated. Their spring rates are as follows - (F): 219lbs/in (3.9kg/mm) and ®: 308lbs/in (5.5kg/mm). How do they compare to the stock springs. A firmer ride would be fine but not a softer one.

http://www.carid.com/2008-subaru-legacy-suspension-systems/tein-h-tech-coil-springs-kit-59281216.html

 

Don't worry about upstate NY snow with a lowered car, the only place you might have any issues at all is if you regularly have to jump snowbanks after getting plowed into your driveway. If you have winter tires (hint: you should), don't worry at all.

 

When I put Bilstein Hd's/B6's on my accord, I got them from tirerack for $118 each. For the LGT, it looks like the rears are a bit cheaper than that ($99 each) but the fronts are more ($210 each, because they are specific to each side of the car).

 

As far as I know, the B8 is just a slightly shortened B6 designed to be used in lowered cars. Valving is the same (and awesome) in most cases. I'd probably just buy B6's regardless.

On my 2.5i, I did:

 

Koni adjustables/Epic Engineering springs (rebadged Eibach springs)

Whiteline 22mm FSB/Perrin 22mm RSB

Kartboy endlinks all around

AVO reinforcement RSB brackets

Whiteline steering rack bushings

Whiteline LCA bushings

 

Brakes:

Hawk HPS pads

Centric Premium rotors

SS braided lines

 

That thing handled on rails.

 

I received the Energy Suspension LCA Bushings from Rock Auto yesterday. An impulse buy really. I'm nowhere near ready to begin work. Still, it's nice to have something tangible.

 

I'm going with the Bilsteins over the Konis, though I liked their adjustability on the Catera. I just don't want to deal with cutting up the OEMs and inserting the Koni struts into their shell. So, B6s it will be.

 

The Tribeca FSB sounds like the way to go. The price is right. As for endlinks, not sure whick brand I'll end up buying but they will be adjustable. I like the idea of being able to dial in the body roll.

 

Steering Rack Bushings? Why? Is that why I feel the wheel tugging?

Don't worry about upstate NY snow with a lowered car, the only place you might have any issues at all is if you regularly have to jump snowbanks after getting plowed into your driveway. If you have winter tires (hint: you should), don't worry at all.

 

When I put Bilstein Hd's/B6's on my accord, I got them from tirerack for $118 each. For the LGT, it looks like the rears are a bit cheaper than that ($99 each) but the fronts are more ($210 each, because they are specific to each side of the car).

 

As far as I know, the B8 is just a slightly shortened B6 designed to be used in lowered cars. Valving is the same (and awesome) in most cases. I'd probably just buy B6's regardless.

 

I've lived Upstate for 40 years, 15 of those in Buffalo (originally from The Bronx). I'm going to buy winter tires in the Fall. Don't believe in All Season tires. Why buy half assed tires? Not sticky enough in the Summer, and too slippery in the Winter. I believe in dedicated Summer and Winter rubber. I'll keep what's on the car for now, put Winter tires on before the snow flies, and buy new wheels with summer tires on them in the Spring.

 

Bilstein B6s are on my "to buy" list, just shopping for the best price & shipping deal. Hopefully in Sept.

 

Thanks for the info regarding the B8s. I'm glad the valving is the same. Now I won't think I'm settling for second best. I do plan to lower the car but not enough to warrant shortened dampers.

 

Fresh dampers, stiffer F&RSB, adjustable endlinks F&R, Poly bushes all around, shorter stiffer springs, and better brakes should give my 3.0R Ltd the sport feel I'm seeking. I was a fan of the Audi Sport Quattro Coupes back in the day when they were the car to have in Group B. Not that I plan to hit the dirt logging roads but I've always felt that an AWD rally type car would be best for the weather we get here in the Northeast. The closer I can bring my 3.0R Ltd to that template the better. The high HP of the Group B cars isn't I'm seeking. My license couldn't survive another speeding ticket. If I had 300+ HP the temptation to go fast would be too much to resist. I already go too fast with the HP I have now. I know my goals would be easier to achieve in a WRX STI but I'm a big old fart and need the interior room and like the niceties of the Legacy. Besides, where's the fun in buying a factory hot rod. I've put my personal stamp on every car I've ever owned. I'm 62 and my cars and motorcycles keep me young. I'm sure you guys get it.

 

Steering Rack Bushings? Why? Is that why I feel the wheel tugging?

 

Not sure? What kind of tugging and where/when? Full lock? Stopped? Slow speed turning?

 

I forgot to add that I put in the Whiteline Roll center kit as well. I had that, the LCA bushings, steering rack bushings and FSB/endlinks done at the same time so I couldn't really pinpoint which did what exactly. But I will tell you that my steering felt heavier and WAY more precise. Just a millimeter of steering movement changed the direction of the car, albeit slightly. The front end really tightened up.

 

I miss how that handled

Not sure? What kind of tugging and where/when? Full lock? Stopped? Slow speed turning?

 

Mostly on/off-ramps with constant radius at low to medium speeds (10-30 MPH). It's not a strong tug, but it is noticeable. Could be the PS pump, or a trait of the AWD. This is my 1st AWD so I could be wrong.

 

I forgot to add that I put in the Whiteline Roll center kit as well. I had that, the LCA bushings, steering rack bushings and FSB/endlinks done at the same time so I couldn't really pinpoint which did what exactly. But I will tell you that my steering felt heavier and WAY more precise. Just a millimeter of steering movement changed the direction of the car, albeit slightly. The front end really tightened up.

 

Never heard of the Roll Center Kit. Sounds interesting but I think I'll wait on it. If the handling sucks after The Bilsteins, Teins, PolyBushings, Offset Top Mount (?), Tribeca FSB, and Adjustable Endlinks, maybe I'll add the RCK.

 

Thanks for the advice!