2018 3.6R vs 2019 2.4L Turbo

First off, I was one of the first owners of the legacy gt back in early 05. So I know well the turbo in the older legacy gt.

I own the 2018 3.6R limited and I really like the car. I thought I'd miss the turbo but the 3.6r imo is a very smooth engine and works great with the CVT. Driving the 3.6r for almost a year, I've grown to like the engine even more. My only gripe is gas mileage. Wish it could do better but I'm avg about 22 city/hwy.

My family just bought a new Ascent. We upgraded our trustworthy Tribeca. Our Tribeca has done great for 11+ years. The Ascent is a great SUV. And I love the turbo. It actually has a little growl to the engine. The Ascent is pretty quick with some kick with the new turbo. It's pretty smooth and I didn't feel any real turbo lag. However, the mid range torque and the smooth driving feel makes the legacy 3.6r a little bit better drive than the Ascent.

I feel the new engine is going to attract more buyers on the 2020 models and future buyers looking to stage their engines will also be happy. For me, I won't trade in my 3.6r for a turbo. Daily driver wise, the 3.6r works great for what I need. It's fast enough for me. If I want some kick, I'll hop in my rex.

Just thought I'd give my 2 cents. Let me know if you have any Ascent questions.

First off, I was one of the first owners of the legacy gt back in early 05. So I know well the turbo in the older legacy gt.

 

I own the 2018 3.6R limited and I really like the car. I thought I'd miss the turbo but the 3.6r imo is a very smooth engine and works great with the CVT. Driving the 3.6r for almost a year, I've grown to like the engine even more. My only gripe is gas mileage. Wish it could do better but I'm avg about 22 city/hwy.

 

My family just bought a new Ascent. We upgraded our trustworthy Tribeca. Our Tribeca has done great for 11+ years. The Ascent is a great SUV. And I love the turbo. It actually has a little growl to the engine. The Ascent is pretty quick with some kick with the new turbo. It's pretty smooth and I didn't feel any real turbo lag. However, the mid range torque and the smooth driving feel makes the legacy 3.6r a little bit better drive than the Ascent.

So, what you're saying is the NA six cylinder is smoother than the DI/FI four, except for fuel economy (and probably emissions). It is too bad this is the tradeoff. Is the Ascent a lot heavier than the Legacy? The difference might not be as noticeable in a lighter car.

First off, I was one of the first owners of the legacy gt back in early 05. So I know well the turbo in the older legacy gt.

 

I own the 2018 3.6R limited and I really like the car. My only gripe is gas mileage. Wish it could do better but I'm avg about 22 city/hwy.

 

My family just bought a new Ascent. W It's pretty smooth and I didn't feel any real turbo lag. However, the mid range torque and the smooth driving feel makes the legacy 3.6r a little bit better drive than the Ascent.

 

For me, I won't trade in my 3.6r for a turbo. Daily driver wise, the 3.6r works great for what I need.

Just thought I'd give my 2 cents. Let me know if you have any Ascent questions.

Thanks for the update. Like you, I am very happy with the 3.6. I will not be updating to a turbo, (or a direct injection engine) and will stick with the NA engine. Have you ever done a check on your gas mileage based purely on your highway driving? Admittedly I'm a pretty conservative driver, but I average 32mpg on my long distance highway trips. I don't even bother checking the small amount of city driving that I do.

My 2016 3.6R gets about 30mpg highway on longer trips. My day to day driving isn't really downtown city driving, but it's closer to city driving than highway driving. My mileage is usually 22-24mpg. On colder stretches, it can be as low as 19 or 20mpg. My work commute is 8.5 miles so it takes 1/3 of the commute for the car to get to operating temperature in the winter.

That said, I'm only at 31000 miles and plan to drive mine for 100,000 more.

I've been doing some digging and have read a fair amount about DI engines and problems associated with them. It concerns me enough that I'm now hesitant to trade into the new 2.4DIT, regardless of it's performance and emissions numbers. It would beyond suck to get a few thousand miles past warranty and find out this engine has similar issues/problems. So I'm looking at trading early to a 2019 3.6 or keeping my car beyond what I intended to, just to stay away from the 2.4DIT until it's a proven design.

Btw, my 3.6 gets 30 on long trips, average 27 daily. I commute 1.2 hours, mostly rural.

Winter, some points less.

I got 28-30 on long trips but my usual daily driving average was 21 with the 3.6.

My current car with a 4cyl averages 25 for daily driving but on long trips it gets near 40 in the stupid eco mode.

Sometimes I miss my Legacy for the roominess. I might get another one as a spare car.

I got 28-30 on long trips but my usual daily driving average was 21 with the 3.6.

 

My current car with a 4cyl averages 25 for daily driving but on long trips it gets near 40 in the stupid eco mode.

 

Sometimes I miss my Legacy for the roominess. I might get another one as a spare car.

Seems like you got yourself another car '18 BMW 430i x conv, congrats! I also think of buying spare car, maybe something from online car auction where you can bid on cars, like this one https://abetter.bid/en/ I grabbed several good deals there before, so I will try my luck again

So, what you're saying is the NA six cylinder is smoother than the DI/FI four, except for fuel economy (and probably emissions). It is too bad this is the tradeoff. Is the Ascent a lot heavier than the Legacy? The difference might not be as noticeable in a lighter car.

The ascent is heavier so maybe in the legacy it may be different. I will say this, the ascent runs smoother than the tribeca with a 3.6 auto.

Thanks for the update. Like you, I am very happy with the 3.6. I will not be updating to a turbo, (or a direct injection engine) and will stick with the NA engine. Have you ever done a check on your gas mileage based purely on your highway driving? Admittedly I'm a pretty conservative driver, but I average 32mpg on my long distance highway trips. I don't even bother checking the small amount of city driving that I do.

highway i'm getting around 30+. i'm a city driver with traffic so about 22-24.

I've been doing some digging and have read a fair amount about DI engines and problems associated with them. It concerns me enough that I'm now hesitant to trade into the new 2.4DIT, regardless of it's performance and emissions numbers. It would beyond suck to get a few thousand miles past warranty and find out this engine has similar issues/problems. So I'm looking at trading early to a 2019 3.6 or keeping my car beyond what I intended to, just to stay away from the 2.4DIT until it's a proven design.

 

Btw, my 3.6 gets 30 on long trips, average 27 daily. I commute 1.2 hours, mostly rural.

Winter, some points less.

Time will tell about the 2.4. But we like the engine and the new technology with it (hauling 5000lbs w/turbo). My point was I'm not going out of my way to trade for a turbo legacy.

I enjoy the smoothness of the 3.6R, just drives like butter, the engine is very quiet and it’s a tank of an engine. It’s one of Subaru’s oldest engines and it has been reliable for years.

I am going to sideline this upcoming gen for a while, I want the new eyesight they have in Japan which has city driving feature and not just highway adaptive.

Also I’d like to see a better design, the new design makes me think of an Impreza Lexus hybrid, just not a fan of the rear end and they made the front grille a bit smaller and it looks a bit weird.

The car won’t age as good as the 5th and 6th gen legacy, it already looks a bit dated when you look at the exterior. The interior is a huge upgrade and the new nav screen is fantastic.

They are adopting Volvo and Tesla type of infotainment.

Lastly, I need few years of data at the 2.4DIT engine, hopefully the ascent over the next 2-3 years will tell us how reliable the new engine is and the issue of carbon build up.

They are adopting Volvo and Tesla type of infotainment.

I hope for the sake of the new owners that it isn't a HK head unit. They need to fire their software development team or their product managers or both.

I've been doing some digging and have read a fair amount about DI engines and problems associated with them. It concerns me enough that I'm now hesitant to trade into the new 2.4DIT, regardless of it's performance and emissions numbers.

What kind of problems have you seen?

What kind of problems have you seen?

Just one of many that are available at the press of a button ....

Sure. But DI issues are nothing new really (e.g. carbon build up). But I am asking about specific problems that hkshooter has noticed creeping up more than usual. I've been lurking on the Ascent forum and have not seen anything alarming just yet.

OK, I see what you mean now. I think Shooter is talking about DI in general, but IMHO that is enough to raise sufficient doubts about DI. I think there is enough "evidence" out there to suggest that DI is going to mean that owners of such vehicles are faced with two possibilities ..... number one, be prepared for the ongoing maintenance costs of removing the carbon build up (if you intend keeping the vehicle for a reasonable time) .... or number two, do nothing and wait for your motor over time to give you worse performance and lower MPG.

I guess the jury is still out as to the actual timeframes for both of the above scenarios, .... and I think all Shooter is saying is that they would rather wait until the "jury returns a clear verdict" before committing to a DI engine, whether that be with the Ascent or any other vehicle.

Dual injection systems (port and DI) might well change the scenario, but again I'd suggest there is still a waiting game there as well, before the complete results are in.

I've owned several cars with direct injection, and the severity of the carbon building varies. Thankfully Subaru's don't have it as bad as Audi/BMW. A walnut blast every 50-75k seems to be the norm, and on our boxers it's an easy process. Easier than changing the timing belts or spark plugs on the DOHC EJ's.

Direct injection, combined with turbo, is the "gateway" to higher performance via higher ethanol blends and ECU programming. For some of us, spending an afternoon removing carbon once every 4-5 years is a small price to the significant performance gains.

If I were looking for a new car, DI concerns would be pretty low on the list.

OK, I see what you mean now. I think Shooter is talking about DI in general, but IMHO that is enough to raise sufficient doubts about DI. I think there is enough "evidence" out there to suggest that DI is going to mean that owners of such vehicles are faced with two possibilities ..... number one, be prepared for the ongoing maintenance costs of removing the carbon build up (if you intend keeping the vehicle for a reasonable time) .... or number two, do nothing and wait for your motor over time to give you worse performance and lower MPG.

 

I guess the jury is still out as to the actual timeframes for both of the above scenarios, .... and I think all Shooter is saying is that they would rather wait until the "jury returns a clear verdict" before committing to a DI engine, whether that be with the Ascent or any other vehicle.

 

Dual injection systems (port and DI) might well change the scenario, but again I'd suggest there is still a waiting game there as well, before the complete results are in.

This, exactly.

when I get my next Subaru if it is DI I will be doing the drench in seafoam atf every 15K or so miles...

seafoam ATF is loaded with detergents and works wonders at cleaning carbon deposits

when I get my next Subaru if it is DI I will be doing the drench in seafoam atf every 15K or so miles...

 

 

seafoam ATF is loaded with detergents and works wonders at cleaning carbon deposits

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when I get my next Subaru if it is DI I will be doing the drench in seafoam atf every 15K or so miles...

 

 

seafoam ATF is loaded with detergents and works wonders at cleaning carbon deposits

You can do whatever you want, but these are Subaru's, not BMW/Audi/VW, and so far the Subaru DIT engines barely warrant a walnut blast every 50k. And getting at the valves is super easy on our motors.

when I get my next Subaru if it is DI I will be doing the drench in seafoam atf every 15K or so miles...

 

 

seafoam ATF is loaded with detergents and works wonders at cleaning carbon deposits

Since when does ATF have lots of detergents?

Even if Seafoam has a high level of detergents relative to other ATF's, since when would that apply to carbon buildup on intake valves???

Such a treatment will also destroy your cats. You may want to rethink your idea.

 

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no, it wont... please try again, i have been seafoaming my cars with ATF Treatment for several decades and never had a cat fail.

89 Sable 194K

1992 Sable 145K

1994 Honda Accord 208K

1998 Honda Accord 100K

2002 Acura CL type S 150K

CARB Compliant cars

2003 Subaru Legacy 134K and still going

2014 Subaru Legacy 58K and still going

Since when does ATF have lots of detergents?

 

Even if Seafoam has a high level of detergents relative to other ATF's, since when would that apply to carbon buildup on intake valves???

because when you introduce it into the intake down stream of the MAF, it will coat the valves, you turn the car off let it soak and then in 30 or so minutes and let the detergents break down the carbon.start the car up and go for a drive. Most people I know that do this use

1/3 can spray into intake via vacuum port

1/3 can in oil 50 or so miles before oil change

1/3 can in fuel

edit is not detergent it is actually a dispersant aka solvent and that does wonders to carbon...

no, it wont... please try again, i have been seafoaming my cars with ATF Treatment for several decades and never had a cat fail.

 

89 Sable 194K

1992 Sable 145K

1994 Honda Accord 208K

1998 Honda Accord 100K

2002 Acura CL type S 150K

 

 

CARB Compliant cars

2003 Subaru Legacy 134K and still going

2014 Subaru Legacy 58K and still going

 

 

 

because when you introduce it into the intake down stream of the MAF, it will coat the valves, you turn the car off let it soak and then in 30 or so minutes and let the detergents break down the carbon.start the car up and go for a drive. Most people I know that do this use

 

 

1/3 can spray into intake via vacuum port

1/3 can in oil 50 or so miles before oil change

1/3 can in fuel

 

 

edit is not detergent it is actually a dispersant aka solvent and that does wonders to carbon...

I have done seafoam and other top end cleaner before with good results. I have read an application of this does not touch carbon build up on valves.