pillboy Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Took the '02 NA Outback to the dealer today for brake fluid replacement and a noise that ended up being a buzzing exhaust heat shield. Get a call to inform me that there are a couple other issues that need attention (and the total bill will be $8xx.xx including what I originally went in for). 1) Bad timing belt tensioner. Apparently they found this making noise while diagnosing the noise I was hearing at cold start. The car currently has 81,xxx miles on it. The timing belt tensioner was replaced at 51,471 miles and before that at 32,374 miles. Both times under warranty and by the same dealer. Since I am footing the bill for this replacement, I have asked for the old part back. What is it that fails on a tensioner? Bearing? Spring? Pivot point? I have never seen one and am curious. And what would cause these to fail so frequently? Bad parts? Poor installation? Defect in the mounting area? I am puzzled. 2) Another oil leak, with oil appearing at the bottom of the timing belt cover. I knew this was happening since I do my own oil changes, but chose to ignore it since this has happened twice before. At 51,471 miles a piston pin access plug was resealed (no part number on invoice). At 31,058 miles the oil pump needed to be resealed using three parts described as "sealing belt", "o-ring" and "oil seal". I am told that this time the leak is from the oil pump (again). Both of the past repairs were under warranty, but I have to pay for this one. It will be interesting to see if the same part numbers appear on the invoice as the last time the pump was resealed. Any thoughts on this issue? Thanks for any input. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 Well, let's try this again and see if anyone knows the answer. I now know that the tensioner is hydraulic, but I still do not know what fails, a seal? They also replaced the "bracket" this time that the tensioner itself mounts to. I have looked at the part, but cannot figure out how oil pressure makes it work. My timing belt which was replaced, also looks to be in great condition. I would assume if it was "flopping around" due to lack of proper tension, that I would see some sort of physical "damage" to it. The dealer did adjust my bill by $150 even though the previous two replacements were not paid for by me. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarupartsdude Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Ok Pill,I'll try my best and help ya understand a little.The tensioner is hydraulic like you stated,they usually wear out....the tension part.The bracket that the tensioner bolts to usually gets stripped out due to installing and removing the tensioner.For your oil leak issue......9 times out of 10 it's usually the "sealing strip at the bottom of the timing belt cover".Here at our shop,when we do something like that,we'll replace the crank/cam seals because you're right there and no need to seal everything back up and have those seals fail on ya,then you're paying again to have those replaced.If you decide to do a job like this,one thing you can look at is the seals (cam/crank) they'll be brown in color if they have been changed,if not the seals will be black.Hope this helps you out a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Thanks for the reply. It looks to me like there is a piston and rod in the circled part of the first pic and that the end of this piston rod presses against another rod that is embedded in the bracket that the tensioner bolts to (circled area in second pic). So I assume there is oil or fluid of some sort trapped in the bore where this little piston travels and that it is NOT pressurized with engine oil, correct? So, I guess that there is some sort of seal failure that causes this fluid to leak out. I am trying to understand the what and how of the failure because I think three of these POS failing in 81,000 miles is just a little excessive. The oil leak was supposedly fixed again using the three same part numbers as the last time at 31,000 miles and the work order states that the oil pump was leaking oil. Again, WTF? I developing a bad taste for Subaru engineering. I hate to say it, but the engine has had synthetic oil since the first change, and I refuse to believe this is an issue with modern parts and lubricants. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Right, the tensioner has silicone oil in it. A small amount of apparant leakage around the rod seal is normal. There were some notes I believe about the tensioner taping the inside of the timing belt cover on some vehicles causing a knocking sound. http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/tensioner-00obw.jpg Here are the most common Subaru oil leak locations with pics: Front cam seals (especially the earlier black colored seals; the newer brownish colored ones hold up better) (pics from an EJ22): http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/LHcamseal1.jpg http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/camseal1obv.jpghttp://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/camseal1rev.jpg Front crank seal (esp the mid 90's 2.2L's and some others where the screws on the rear case of the oil pump tended to loosen, letting oil out the front crank seal and sometimes even pushing the seal right out) http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/oilpumpscrews1.jpg Also there is an o-ring between the oil pump discharge and block http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/oilpumporing1.jpghttp://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/oilpumporing2.jpg The valve cover gaskets, and for engines where the spark plug tubes penetrate the valve cover, the spark plug hole seals. http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/valvecover00obw1.jpg http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/valvecover/sparkplugholeseals00OBW.jpg http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/valvecover/valvecovergaskets22L.jpg EJ22's also have an o-ring at the LH rear and RH front of the cam's: http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/camcaporing1.jpg http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/camcap1.jpghttp://www.porcupine73.com/pics/timing/camcap2.jpg Also rear main seal, especially if the vehicle had a plastic rear main seal retainer/oil separator (an OEM upgrade to a metal retainer is available). http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/engine/rms-metal1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thanks for the info porcupine. I don't expect anything automotive to last forever. What amazes (and disappoints) me is the frequency of the failures I am experiencing. The service manager did knock $150 off my bill after reviewing my past service orders. I guess it is time to dump this pig on someone else and move on to a manufacturer that can engineer things better. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdubs Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Yep, just about every one of those things has leaked on my 2.2. A new one over the past few months is water pump seepage. I can't complain too much though. Half the reason for my seals failing was the car sat for a few years because the previous owner was afraid to drive it after smelling burning oil. Obviously she's never owned a Subaru before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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