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Timing Belt Change Challenges


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So, about a week and a half ago, I started hearing a "chirping" sound coming from my 2012 2.5I Leggy. It was concerning as I've had the car a little over a year and it has been a champ. Starts every time, gets great gas mileage and the AWD in the Midwest winters is a dream.

 

Doing some investigating on line and watching countless videos on Youtube, I am speculating that one or more of the timing components is on the way out.

 

I've been following SubOperater's post on the timing kit he purchased and am anxiously awaiting my kit to arrive tomorrow.

 

However, upon disassembling the front portion of the engine in preparation of my kit arriving, I have found a few things...

 

1. Two of the screws that secure the fans to the radiator (one on each fan) were so corroded that the mounting tabs broke, even after letting them soak for over an hour with a few coats of WD-40. I should still be able to secure them back in place with a bit of creativity.

 

2. Getting the fans out without removing the upper radiator hose is a bit of a challenge however, I did get them out.

 

3. The 10mm screws that secure the timing belt cover have quite a bit of surface rust on them. Couldn't use my 3/8 drive socket on them as it's a pretty hefty socket. Will have to use a 1/4 drive socket to get them out but I don't have any extensions on that size and my 3/8 to 1/4 reducer bit the dust a few months ago. Waiting on my dad to get here to get his ratchet and extension.

 

4. Looks like I have a "U" shaped crack in my timing cover however with as straight as those lines are, it almost looks like it's supposed to be there. My gut tells me it's not so that makes me wonder if the tensioner bolt has worked loose and that is one of the noises I am hearing. Will find out later today.

 

 

Will most likely have everything ready to go by end of day today, but am going to need to look into getting coolant. Read somewhere (cannot remember where) that only the blue Subaru coolant should be used. The current coolant looks good, but we all know looks can be deceiving. Also need to look into getting the conditioner. May have to jump across the river into Illinois and hit up the only Subaru dealer in 60 miles from here for coolant and conditioner.

 

Can any of you guys thing of anything else I might need?

 

Thanks in advance, all!

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Well...the fun continues...

 

Had 3 bolts that were giving me hell this morning on the lower portion of the cover. The first three lower right bolts on the big cover were terribly corroded. Could not get a 10MM on there. Had to get bolt extractor sockets to remove them. Best $30 I (read: my father) ever spent.

 

However, the far right one was so bad it was frozen in the plastic of the timing cover and it actually broke the bottom tab. Took me a while to get that one out as the rubber seal was actually wrapped around that broken piece.

 

Those three bolt heads are shot so it looks like I'll be making a run to home depot to see if I can find some shoulder bolts to replace them all with. And yes, I know some of them are not shoulder bolts.

 

After getting the cover off and looking at the piston seal around the tensioner there is some significant oil visible around the piston as well as possibly the tensioner itself.

 

There is also some visible debris on the left upper idler pulley.

 

Another thing I noted that I don't know if it's common or not is there seems to be a bit of a gap between the belt and the pulley end on the cam gears. Pic attached below. Any thoughts?

 

The water pump looks to be in pretty good shape, however, I may as well replace it as I am already in there and really do not want to have to tear this all apart again just to replace a water pump.

 

Will need to get a drain pan and will probably put in some new coolant. I can the blue extended life coolant at my nearby auto parts store but not sure about the conditioner. Do most places carry that or is it even absolutely necessary?

 

I'm already a slight bit north of $300 with the timing kit (shipping included), new serpentine belt and idler pulley, so whats another hundo??? Piece of mind for not having to replace an entire engine. Who knows, though. Maybe the head gaskets are next with my luck...

 

Anywho, I've attached some more images. Will have additional ones later when I get the tensioner and idlers off. Was time to crack a beer and eat some lunch. Glad today is my last day of vacation...

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Quick update.

 

Had everything back together after a couple of days minor issues.

Did the two rotations and timing marks line back up just as they should.

 

Start filling the radiator with coolant to get ready to start up to ensure everything is working properly and my son spots a big puddle of coolant on the floor.

 

Look underneath the car and see a drip coming from the back of the driver side head where it bolts to the block. Great! Now a possible leaking head gasket.

 

As I'm trying to look from the top down, i see coolant pooled up just below where the throttle body coolant hose meets up a metal line. Push some paper towels down there to soak up so I can try to determine where its coming from. Have the boy add some more coolant and when he pulls the radiator cap off, I see it spurt out from the metal pipe.

 

So, now I need to replace the engine coolant bypass pipe, which looks like it will involve taking the intake manifold off.

Here's a link to the part I have to replace. Part 14065.

 

https://www.subarupartsandaccessories.com/a/Subaru_2012_Legacy/49226687__6030753/WATER-PUMP-10MY-12MY/B14-035-01.html

 

 

I love this car but lemme tell you, it is hard not putting a .45 ACP round through it. LOL

 

 

Looks like I'll be spending a bit more time getting intimate with an EJ25.

Edited by DailyLeggy
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OK. So, after a few more attempts at getting the timing belt, cover and accessory belt back on due to me being super paranoid and taking everything off two or three times to double and triple check the timing marks, I have finally got the front of the engine reassembled.

 

Now, today I begin to tackle the removal of the intake manifold so I can get the coolant bypass pipe off and replaced.

 

Only 1 Subaru dealer within 100 miles of me had the part and, as luck would have it, one of my oldest friends is driving through there today and offered to pick it up on his way to see his mom, so I will get free delivery of said pipe later this morning.

 

Now the new fun begins as I have to find a parts store that will have the intake manifold gaskets in stock.

 

Wonder how lucky I will get then...

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Just stumbled onto this thread.

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

HAve you sprayed the rusty bolts with PB Blaster or one of the great fluids that will help things come apart ?

 

Did you use anti-seize compound on all threads when going back together ?

 

Most any auto parts store can get the gaskets you need.

 

Did you read through the timing belt thread in the DIY forum ? Or the thread currently just below this one ?

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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Max Cap,

 

As a side note, I ended up having to remove the crossover pipe to get the coolant bypass pipe out. Read more on that in the crazy super detailed response below the TL/DR version...:lol:

 

 

TL/DR version

 

1. Yes. Read through the thread.

2. Only needed PB Blaster on a few points

3. Didn't use anti-seize and based on you asking me this, I probably should have.

 

Problems after first start up:

- Engine runs smooth

- After getting up to temp, upper rad hose is hot, lower one is cold.

- I used a spill proof funnel that attaches to the radiator neck when filling radiator.

- Drained coolant the next day. No signs of paper towel particles in the coolant as I may have left one or both in place even though I am pretty sure I removed them (used paper towels to cover ports on head with intake mani off and also coolant ports under cross-over pipe as I had to remove it to remove the coolant bypass pipe. See below).

- Removed thermostat to check for debris from paper towels. All clear.

- Tested the thermostat and it works as it should in boiling water.

- Borescoped the crossover pipe. No signs of paper towels in the ports going into the block at either point.

 

Did I just not bleed it long enough? Long version below.

 

End TL/DR version...

 

 

 

I did read through the Aisin timing belt kit thread below mine which is why I ended up going with that particular kit.

 

To answer your other question about the PB Plaster and anti-sieze...

 

I was able to break almost all of the bolts lose however on some of the more stubborn ones, yes.

 

In regards to the anti-seize...unfortunately, no. Should I have?

I don't remember seeing that in the other thread. I will go back through and read it all again.

 

That all being said, I now have a new problem...

 

So since this was my first time and I don't know all the little tips and tricks, I completely removed the accessories on the front of the engine. AC compressor resting on the front of the engine, alternator off and PS pump over by the air box.

After taking off the intake manifold and plugging the intake ports on the heads to prevent debris, I started working to get the coolant bypass pipe off.

 

In order to actually get the coolant bypass pipe out, I had to remove the coolant cross-over pipe as the tube on the back end of it that ultimately goes to the heater core would not come off the coolant cross pipe.

I gave it a couple of light taps using one of my plastic mallets to just see if I could jar it loose, but no dice, so off the cross over pipe came and filled in the water ports in the same fashion as the intake ports. As I knew I needed new o rings off to Menards to score some #44 o rings.

 

Side note: Have read a few threads on the interwebs that say that #34 can work also, so I bought two sets of each, just in case.

 

So, get the old coolant by-pass pipe off, get the new one in, connect the hoses at the water pump and the one to the heater core. Get the cross-over pipe in place, get the intake mani on, the accessories back in place and get everything buttoned up.

 

Get my spill proof funnel kit (the ones that actually attach to the radiator filler neck) and get to work filling up with new coolant. Get it all filled up and here comes the moment of truth!

 

Start the car and it fires right up and sounds like its running like a top. After a few minutes the blue temperature light on the dash goes out, so I am thinking, "Sweet!

Coolant should now be circulating through the thermostat." Let it run a few more minutes, the fans kick on, run a short bit then go off.

Repeat two more time. Then, the fourth time they kick on, they sound like they're trying to start a tornado. They don't shut off, either. So, to play it safe, I shut the car down.

 

Top radiator hose is hot...bottom one is cold.

 

Let is sit for about 5 minutes and start up again and let it run hoping maybe there's just an air pocket in it somewhere. A few more minutes in, I see that there is steam coming from the coolant in the funnel. Not a lot, just a small amount.

The coolant is also very very warm. Borderline hot. Lower hose is still cold. Keep in mind I never got an overheating warning on the dash.

 

So I start thinking, what did I miss???

 

Then I think, did I remove the paper towels from the coolant ports for the cross-over pipe??? S!@#...I may have to tear the top end apart again...

Have a smoke, think for a bit and call it a night. Will address in the AM (read:530pm...)Time for bed. It's 4am and I am beat.

 

Fast forward to this afternoon. Run to my buddy's place to borrow his borescope while I let the coolant drain. Get back, pop off the thermostat thinking maybe, it might be bad or if I did leave the paper towel in one of those ports, maybe some of it has broken up and is blocking the area of the thermostat.

Nothing. Clean as the day I put it in. Take the thermostat and clean it off so I can put it in a pot of boiling water to test it like the old schoolers do, and boom...it works perfectly.

 

Pull the upper hose off the cross-over pipe and run the borescope to the first port and it's clean.

Push it a bit more to the second port and it's clean as well.

 

So...now, here I am not knowing what the hell is going on and wondering if I had left one or both paper towels in the coolant ports when I put the cross-over pipe on, wouldn't the pressure build up cause something to start leaking?

Could it have gotten lodged somewhere else? Would that cause the engine to start having issues??

 

I am pretty sure I took them out as I did the ones for the intake manifold however, I just have this small sliver of doubt. I really don't want to have to tear the whole engine apart as I do not have the tools to do so nor the space in my garage for a complete engine tear-down.

I also don't have that much knowledge with these engines.

 

Here I was trying to save some cash by doing a timing belt change on my own, and now I have possibly opened up Pandora's box...to which if I did screw this up I am going to have to pay to have corrected.

 

Any help is appreciated.

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Member apexi is good with 2.5i's. He may be someone you want to reach out to.

 

I think you had the right thought there, about stepping back for a minute and think over what's going on.

 

Hopefully its something simple.

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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When you installed the thermostat:

1. Is it OEM? It really needs to be OEM.

2. Correct orientation? Backwards is possible and will keep it from opening.

3. Is the little jiggle pin at 12'oclock? It needs to be there for air bubbles to work through.

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When you installed the thermostat:

1. Is it OEM? It really needs to be OEM.

2. Correct orientation? Backwards is possible and will keep it from opening.

3. Is the little jiggle pin at 12'oclock? It needs to be there for air bubbles to work through.

 

Answers:

 

1. It was the same thermostat that was in the water pump I took out. I did the boiling water test and it worked perfectly.

2. It went in the new water pump the same way it was in the old one.

3. Yes, the rattle pin was at 12 o'clock.

 

Spoke last night with another friend of mine who suggested making sure the HVAC temp control was turned to hot to allow the switchover valve to open. He thinks that may be the problem.

 

Going to try that tonight when I finish work.

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Good luck, hope it works this time.

Sounds like an air bubble might have kept the thermostat from seeing the heat.

I also like to squeeze the top hose a lot to see if I can squeeze any air bubbles out.

That spill-proof funnel should help as well, I love mine.

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Well...here's the skinny.

 

I HAVE A HOT LOWER RADIATOR HOSE!!!

 

I had to let it run for close to 45 minutes with the heater blowing hot.

I also occasional hit the AC button to turn it on and the fans would kick on and stay on for quite a while.

 

Hoses going to the heater core have heat on them as well.

 

Did a final check of the underside of the car to see if there were any new leaks and there appear to be none from wherever I could physically see.

 

By the way, in case none of you knew this...those exhaust manifolds under the car get HOT...LOL. Accidentally brushed my arm against it while I was underneath the car. Thankfully I had my heavy duty coveralls on, which probably saved me a huge burn, but I still felt it.

 

So, thank you everyone for suggestions and the questions to make sure I had my shit together. Appreciate everyone's help/assistance/comments.

 

Tell ya all what, though...after 3 times of putting on and taking off the timing belt, I'm pretty sure that I can now do that job in less than three hours. LOL

 

 

Thanks again everyone!

DailyLeggy Out!!!

 

:D

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By the way, in case none of you knew this...those exhaust manifolds under the car get HOT...LOL.

 

Yes they do. 20 years ago, I went to start my Corvette up for the 1st time in the spring. It was running very poorly barely idling. I checked the fuel pressure. I got my spark tester out and it had spark. While doing that I noticeable the exhaust header didn't seem hot. I put my hand near it and it felt cool, so I slowly moved my hand near the headers and eventually touch the passenger side header. It was cold, I was baffled. I walked around to the driver side and said to myself as I grabbed the driver side header, "how can this be cold?" It was HOT!!! I ran inside and put my hand under cold water. My car had blown the injector fuse on the passenger side, which why it was cold.

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The real test will be driving it.

 

Good Luck. Sounds like you've made great progress.

 

It's gonna be a slow drive to the gas station and back for now before I really start driving it normally. But, thank you.

 

I just finished getting the undertray back on and will be getting it out of the garage to sit and idle again for a bit so I can do a second check for any leaks.

 

Before I put the undertray back on I did a second check for leaks and didn't see anything new around the engine, heads or water pump outlet. However, I think I still may have some residual coolant pooled up on the cross-member that I think was from when I pulled the heater core hoses off the engine to begin the intake manifold removal/replacement to get the bypass pipe off.

 

I say this as there were a couple of drops just hangin from the crossmember but I didn't see anything physically coming from any part of the engine/heads. I'm gonna find some cardboard to stick underneath the car this evening to let me know if there are other areas I need to inspect after my drive later. Got to get it done before this whole damn curfew thing starts tonight.

 

Will update everyone later.

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Well, after a weeks worth of work, replacement of timing belt/components and water pump, coolant by-pass pipe, a new accessory idler pulley and belt, I still have the same chirping sound I originally thought was related to the tensioner. It drive nice, idles smooth and seems to be just like before however, with that chirping noise, I am afraid to romp it a little bit to make sure it still accelerates well. I also can't hear anything else over that noise so it makes it hard to listen for any differences or "misses," if you will.

 

I have eliminated it being the accessory belt tensioner, AC compressor, Alternator or PS pump by removing the accessory belt and starting the car. Gave it a few quick revs and it still has the same chirp. (Idler pulley and belt were replaced 3 days before I started the timing belt job.)

 

At this point I am thinking either the tensioner on the timing belt or any of the new idlers is the culprit, but I highly doubt it as they are brand new I and would hope to god that I didn't get sent defective equipment.

 

I have uploaded a short 9 second video to YouTube where I have my son do two revs of the engine. You can hear the "chirping" as it peaks then starts to drop at the 2 and 6 second marks. I am really hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

 

 

One item to note on the tensioner, both new and old. When I installed it, and before putting the belt on, and torqued it down to the recommended 26 - 32 ft. lbs. (I split the difference at 29, I grabbed the tensioner body where the bushing/bolt is and noticed that I have a very amount of movement front to back. And I mean VERY small. I checked the old tensioner and noticed that the bushing inside of it that the bolt passes through is a smidge larger than the tensioner. Guessing that is by design so the tensioner can still travel up and down as needed. It the bushing was flush, and after tightening, it couldn't move up or down. Am I right on that??

 

And, just because I am super paranoid, I am going to take the timing cover off again tomorrow and quintuple check that the timing marks on the cams/crank are where they are supposed to be. Yes, I know the marks on the belt will not line up probably ever again for my eyes.

 

One question, if I put the crank pulley back on with the the timing cover off, I shouldn't have any problem running the car for a few minutes to see if I can pinpoint where the noise may be coming from, should I?

 

I really want to get this fixed but lemme tell you, I've about had my fill with this car.

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Ok...So in my paranoia, I took the front of the engine apart again to double check the timing marks. Good to go.

 

However, now I am having a huge problem getting the damn harmonic balancer back on the crank snout after reassembling everything.

 

The woodruff key is there and I am trying my damndest to get the keyway on the balancer lined up, which I get it right there, but it will not slide on to the snout.

 

Question...is it ok to put some engine oil on the snout and the inner ring of the balancer to aid in getting it on.

 

I obviously will not be trying to force or tap the balancer on to the snout as I don't want to damage the woodruff key or keyway on the snout.

 

Any suggestions?

 

By the way, that noise in the video is not related to any of the accessories on the front as the noise is there even when the drive belt is off. So...ummm...yeah.

 

Oh, and to add insult to injury, my wife's car took a shit so now I am down both my vehicles. FML.

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Well, I think I know why the balancer won't go back on to the crank snout.

 

I noticed a bit of debris in the keyway so I grabbed a paper towel and a small hook-pick as I have fat fingers. Well, when I running the paper towel back with the pick, just at the back of the keyway is a small catch on the left side. The right side goes smooth. No catch.

 

I have no idea how that catch could have gotten there as I am stupid careful taking the balancer off and putting it back on. But, considering how my luck is going, it doesn't surprise me that Murphy has shown is ugly face again...

 

So, off to Home Depot I go tomorrow after work to see if I can find some very fine precision files to try and work it down enough to get it back on the crank.

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After you dress the nick with a file you should be good to go.

 

I'll think about your noise for a while and see if I can think of possibilities

 

I wonder if you can try and use something to block off the other sounds so this one becomes louder ?

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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Team,

 

I think I have some good news.

 

I was able to get the pulley back on with some careful filing of the nick and a few curse words (and beer, too. Priorities...) and got the car running again.

 

Well, I had to return my friend's truck to him and since he is a bit of a mechanic like I, we brain stormed a bit about the noise.

 

He grabbed a long metal prop rod he had in the back of his truck, put it on one of the tabs of the heat shield and had me give the car a few revs and wouldn't you know, no chattering noise. Turns out one of the screws/bolts on the exhaust shield is rotted out.

 

I'll be honest, I did not think for one moment it was heat shield even though mine are pretty well shot. Not sure how much of a chore it is to replace them, so may try to repair in some fashion.

 

I've seen the videos of stuffing steel wool in there and clamping down with a hose clamp, but to be honest or people just saying they live with the noise, but I cannot stand any noises that aren't supposed to be there.

 

Time to put her back on jack stands, drop the lower cover and get to getting and try to get this thing back to the way it was.

 

 

DailyLeggy out!

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Pull that rusty heatshield out and throw it away, most of mine have been gone for years.

 

I have wrapped some of the stock manifold with DEI heat wrap, but some of that is gone now too.

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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