The Preview Review: Brakeswap.com Brake Kit Test Preview

Hello All,

Long time no see (or post for that matter). It's been awhile since I did a brake review, especially when the last time I even posted here was "how to buy brakes" and what to look for and expect from brake performance. As most of you know, I try to find the more cost effective way without needing to go with more costly parts. For an update, for the past 3 years, my GT only been upgraded with stainless steel lines to improve pedal feel; upgraded the brake fluid from the old ATE super blue all the way to the Prospeed 610 (just one step lower than a bottle of Castol SRF); slapped on various brake rotors (from Racing Brake HP rotors, to DBA 4000s, 2 sets of stock rotors, and Brakeswap Performance XD/Slotted Rotors, all to see how long these products will last from the harshest (track driving) conditions while using all the possible combination of brake pads along the way (from Endless SSMs, to Carbotech various brake pads, and even some Hawk pads). Currently my GT is just one step shy of calipers and brake ducts. So far, the logical step for me to have is actually to fit a pair of brake ducts so that I can still retain the stock calipers for any race rules or better yet, maintain the OEM fitment of many wheel setups as well as simplicity of replacing parts for any kind of maintenance and rebuilds.

But lets move on. With the demand of track driving, the cost of the GT brake pads that seem more expensive than the 4-piston caliper drop-in pads, I talk to Eric probably about a couple months ago about the braking quirks that the GT may need to be addressed in the future, so he came up with a viable solution for us owners.

Starting with the fact that he is offering his front Brake Performance Kit (which includes all the necessary goodies for a proper upgrade of brake lines, fluids, hardware of a pair of performance rotors, 4-piston calipers, and brake pads), this should fit for all applications for street use (check with Brakeswap to talk to him on which brake pad you want and type of rotor you want) as well as this kit should fit most race rules under the stock and street touring classes because the kit can still be used with your OEM rotors (isn't that nice?, I think so).

Let's get with the pics, starting with the fact that the kit does fit over the OEM GT 17" wheels with precise fitment. Of course, for those of you that decide to run bigger and different wheels, I suggest you check on http://www.nasioc.com for the 2004 STi Wheel fitment guide as there are certain rims where the spokes may graze the caliper (not a problem, a pair of either 2mm or/and 3mm spacers will do the trick and http://www.H&R.com makes these spacers just for this occasion). I'll let the pics speak for themselves, so for all you stock GT wheel owners for the winter time, don't worry, these calipers fit perfectly with your stock winter setups. Enjoy the pics below.

My first impression of the calipers is that they are indeed light (~5lbs). This is a significant improvement over the stock calipers in static form alone. While these Superlite calipers do not have dust boots (which I do recall the time frame of rebuilds for Wilwoods from past trouble shooting experience is shorter than stock calipers anywhere from my guess of 10,000 miles to 20,000 miles since OEM dust boots can still tear anyways from the heat), the brake rebuild kit is only around ~$10 to $15 depending on where you buy it from, which is very comparable to OEM pricing, only you just have to keep an eye on the pistons to see if there are any marring or scuff marks from typical road debris and the such a little sooner than compared to stock calipers. It's not a big chore by any means for any typical track driver either when switching out pads.

Installation was straight forward and it was refreshing to know that I can use these calipers over my OEM rotors (for even more cost effective use), or anyone that already have a set of DBA4000s or even 5000s, or you can use what Brakeswap supplies as an option. This is just another bonus that I don't have to waste sets and sets of rotors, not to mention that I dont have to worry about incompatibility issues if I happen to want some 2-piece floating rotors by Brembo, Endless or Project Mu if I wanted them. If I wanted for endurance braking, most likely I will talk to Brakeswap to come up with a different caliper that can handle a 14.5" rotor instead and run on 18" rims, but for now, lets keep the price of maintenance ease, track driving, and racing costs to a minimum and still put yourself on the podium.

Ok, ok, so everyone wants to know the braking/driving impressions right? I've driven on Preadet's car with his upgraded brake setup using a similar 4-piston setup with upgraded rotors as well (since Preadet's car was designed to have similar balance to the original GT setup without the need for any significant braking changes). I can safely generalize that by not changing too much of the piston sizes and also not change the brake bias significantly, the car still feels very balanced from stock calipers. So no trail-braking drifting drama with Brakeswap's Performance Kit. If anyone wants t start shifting their brake bias, I would think twice before you want to do so starting by looking at your suspension setup first. Back to the point, the brake pedal feel not only improved because of the close proximity of the pistons to the pads to the rotors, but shorten due to the lesser need of pushing more fluid through the caliper. The Wilwood Superlite caliper uses a brake pad that is actually smaller in surface area, and since we didn't change the master cylinder, we haven't really changed the overall amount of clamping force [applying the same force over a smaller area, thus raising the PSI just slightly to where the brake bias is not affected], we only inverse it so you may get more heat out of the brake pads in a shorter warm up time. This is a good sign for people that actually want to use a higher heat range with a higher coefficient of friction for street use to prevent less fade from repeated braking (such as highway stop and go traffic between exit ramps and stretches). I won't know for sure how this will play out in the long run for track driving conditions [more to come later]. So with the brake pedal shorten, one may experience the "woah!" method because we are so used to the OEM calipers and the long travel brakes. The braking performance itself is the same (no real difference other than engaging ABS sooner than before), but the gain is that the brakes takes less time to react to your input since the pedal travel is significantly shorten. But DO be careful as this promotes extremely quicker lock-up and possibly harder to modulate later compared to OEM calipers, so give yourself some time to relearn and find your finesse in braking exercises.

Overall, for the value that you can get these calipers and anything else you need from Brakeswap, you are getting a good bargain with all the bells and whistles that you need for a very high performing street setup that is very track-friendly to not only the rules, but to maintenance and on your pocket as well. All you have to do is ask Brakeswap and keep giving them feedback and ideas of what you want, the better they can provide you. So far, they answered my concerns with this kit, and I'm sure they can do the same for you as well.

There won't be a track test day or two until later in the year. Although it would be a better test to try out earlier next year when the ambient temperatures climb back to the sub 90Fs to keep things consistent compared to the other older data that I have so that we can see if the trade off of the calipers make that much of a difference in terms of the 3 areas that I would like to look into:

Endurance (heat capacity changes, how many laps I can stay out before needing ease it down a notch)

Pad Life (glazing versus mileage)

Pad Fading Performance (we'll see if having aluminum calipers can help some of the heat dissipation)

Pics below:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8420/img0676tm2.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/450/img0677kf6.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9124/img0678kx2.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7008/img0679px6.jpg

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4778/img0680sl0.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7246/sspx0059ij4.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8683/sspx0060kb9.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1060/sspx0061ou7.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7715/sspx0062oi0.jpg

Hey I just noticed 3 lug nuts are on, 2 off!

yup, test fitting purposes, my wheels were also off the ground! I must have been flying! Air brakes perhaps?

Great writeup, thanks!

The only thing that gives me pause is the 10-20kmi rebuild (especially living in New England)... Of course, I only drive on the street so these would be overkill anyways, but I like the idea of a wider range of pads in addition to the bling. When you consider that most pad/rotor/line/fluid kits are $700-$800, an extra few hundred for (quality) calipers seems like a great deal.

These are front only, correct?

Great writeup, thanks!

 

The only thing that gives me pause is the 10-20kmi rebuild (especially living in New England)... Of course, I only drive on the street so these would be overkill anyways, but I like the idea of a wider range of pads in addition to the bling. When you consider that most pad/rotor/line/fluid kits are $700-$800, an extra few hundred for (quality) calipers seems like a great deal.

 

These are front only, correct?

oh no, lemme correct. It's 10k to 20k difference from stock. So if your stock calipers need to rebuild around say 50 to 60k, then these will probably need a rebuild somewhere from 40 to 50k miles.. of course this can vary from your driving habits and conditions, I just threw that number out there from my experience of troubleshooting and help other members with Wilwood products compared to stock.

the better range of pads is very helpful. I just think it's a great addition that they fit over the stock wheels. And yes, you could piece together as you said with some really good rotors, pads, and lines and fluid and tack on a few more hundred for some better calipers, you got yourself a complete very well performing package.

Yes, these are for the fronts.

oh no, lemme correct. It's 10k to 20k difference from stock. So if your stock calipers need to rebuild around say 50 to 60k, then these will probably need a rebuild somewhere from 40 to 50k miles.. of course this can vary from your driving habits and conditions, I just threw that number out there from my experience of troubleshooting and help other members with Wilwood products compared to stock.

 

the better range of pads is very helpful. I just think it's a great addition that they fit over the stock wheels. And yes, you could piece together as you said with some really good rotors, pads, and lines and fluid and tack on a few more hundred for some better calipers, you got yourself a complete very well performing package.

 

Yes, these are for the fronts.

Thanks for the clarification!

yup, test fitting purposes, my wheels were also off the ground! I must have been flying! Air brakes perhaps?

Don't look now, but those rotors are on backwards also:)

Those rotors are not directional, so it doesnt matter which way you put them. The direction of the slots play no factor in rotor performance.

Keep in mind that the factory caliper needs a dust boot to protect the piston because it is not a high quality stainless steel piston like the Wilwood has. The SS piston prolongs life and can extend normal service intervals.

Remember, the rubber boot on the caliper pistons are there because the material the OEM calipers are made from need to survive past your warranty period

And also, the main, functional part of a caliper piston is not the rubber boot, but the piston ring inside.

As long as the piston ring isn't beaten up and start leaking fluid, you'll be fine. Having a torn boot is not the end of the world, although you are inviting more crap to accumulate and beat up the piston ring in the process.

I enjoy having my slots facing the other direction on a non-directional rotor. It doesn't matter so long the rotor is not directionally vane. This goes to say that once you get a brake duct kit, it wont matter as much either.. the speed of which you are traveling from will far exceed the wheel spin rotational speed to pump the air out. But if you want to be technically correct, put the directional vanes in the correct direction

Rotors not on backwards.....crazy mofo...

Hey! I resemble that remark:redface:

Actually, in my own defense, if those rotors were DBA4000s like I assumed, they would be on backwards.

Also, I'm not so sure about Xenonk's assertion that you can run directional rotors backwards if you have brake ducts. Maybe so, but those directional vanes really work. I know because I installed them backwards once by accident and everything started to fry in about a lap and a half.

Hey! I resemble that remark:redface:

 

Actually, in my own defense, if those rotors were DBA4000s like I assumed, they would be on backwards.

 

Also, I'm not so sure about Xenonk's assertion that you can run directional rotors backwards if you have brake ducts. Maybe so, but those directional vanes really work. I know because I installed them backwards once by accident and everything started to fry in about a lap and a half.

for street use, running directional vanes backwards can't be any more worse than non-directional vanes. But of course, it would be way beneficial to have things installed correctly for ANY occassion, especially for track

That's tiite Keefe. I may have to get some when my calipers start to go.

you would probably like the brake feel of the calipers a lot without sacrificing or changing the braking characteristics of the stock behavior.

Ok guys, I'm seriously considering this for my LGT. I just got back from Watkins Glen this weekend and after upgrading to HP+ pads from my previous issues at Pocono North where I cooked the HPS in 2 laps running a nearly stock (AP Stage 1 only) car.

At The Glen I was running about a 2.23-2.25 lap time topping out around 123-124mph at the top of the Esses and then Severely clamping down the brakes before the bus stop. I am not sure what happened and the brakes seemed to hold up despite them smoking a bit. Unfortunately now the slots on my DBA4000s are now completely filled in and the rotors are glazed. This is of course leading to a nice wobble/noise on braking on the street.

After talking with Ken over at WRX Brakes, a great guy and long time friend, I'm thinking I need to get some more severe duty pads and some brake ducting. Any thoughts on how this kit with some good pads would compare on-track to the stock calipers?

Thanks in advance.

-mike

 

There won't be a track test day or two until later in the year. Although it would be a better test to try out earlier next year when the ambient temperatures climb back to the sub 90Fs to keep things consistent compared to the other older data that I have so that we can see if the trade off of the calipers make that much of a difference in terms of the 3 areas that I would like to look into:

 

Endurance (heat capacity changes, how many laps I can stay out before needing ease it down a notch)

Pad Life (glazing versus mileage)

Pad Fading Performance (we'll see if having aluminum calipers can help some of the heat dissipation)

 

 

Pics below:

I'd be very happy to give them a go-around at NJMP early next month if you want to ship me a used test pair (I'll pull em after the event and return em if they don't suit my needs, or buy em if they do)

-mike

Mike, you can also try going to a more aggressive pad. Sounds like the HP+ held up ok... youre lucky it was cool this weekend! Sorry i couldnt make it out there, I really REALLY wanted to!!!

What do you mean by the slots are filled in? Filled in w/ HP+ material? That should go away with a blast of compressed air or brake cleaner.

If Keefe wants to, I wouldnt mind you trying them out at NJMP. Are you talking about the Audi DE there in a couple weeks? Ill be there. However, you'll need track pads for it, which shouldnt be a problem. Id set you up in some PFC01s or XP16 that will rock your world. If you need rotor blanks, I can supply also.

Keefe's setup now is purely for the street. He has XD/slotted rotors and Hawk Performance Ceramics in there.

Mike, you can also try going to a more aggressive pad. Sounds like the HP+ held up ok... youre lucky it was cool this weekend! Sorry i couldnt make it out there, I really REALLY wanted to!!!

 

What do you mean by the slots are filled in? Filled in w/ HP+ material? That should go away with a blast of compressed air or brake cleaner.

 

If Keefe wants to, I wouldnt mind you trying them out at NJMP. Are you talking about the Audi DE there in a couple weeks? Ill be there. However, you'll need track pads for it, which shouldnt be a problem. Id set you up in some PFC01s or XP16 that will rock your world. If you need rotor blanks, I can supply also.

 

Keefe's setup now is purely for the street. He has XD/slotted rotors and Hawk Performance Ceramics in there.

Not sure WHAT is in the slots yet. From our picking at the rest stop on I81, we needed a knife to get a tiny bit of the material that appears to be welded in there out!

Yup definitely thinking that I have to go to a bit higher pad than the HP+, I would just like to get something that I can at least drive to/from the track event, and with the 4-pots I would be able to swap out the pads a bit easier than the stockers.

We are putting in the AVO LCA Bushings tomorrow night, so we plan to pull the DBA4000s and pads and see if we can cleam em up and get the slots un-caked up.

I will be down at NJMP for the NASA 3-day event November 7-9 doing Timing and Scoring, which lets me get on track whenever I don't have to be in the T&S Booth.

Shoot me a PM and we'll see if we can get em tested out for yah on-track!

-mike

Not sure WHAT is in the slots yet. From our picking at the rest stop on I81, we needed a knife to get a tiny bit of the material that appears to be welded in there out!

 

Yup definitely thinking that I have to go to a bit higher pad than the HP+, I would just like to get something that I can at least drive to/from the track event, and with the 4-pots I would be able to swap out the pads a bit easier than the stockers.

 

We are putting in the AVO LCA Bushings tomorrow night, so we plan to pull the DBA4000s and pads and see if we can cleam em up and get the slots un-caked up.

 

I will be down at NJMP for the NASA 3-day event November 7-9 doing Timing and Scoring, which lets me get on track whenever I don't have to be in the T&S Booth.

 

Shoot me a PM and we'll see if we can get em tested out for yah on-track!

 

-mike

Sounds like the HP+ "dust" caked itself into the slots.

I highly recommend, as I do to everyone who tracks their cars, to run separate pads for track. It's not terribly hard to change em out, though working T&S certainly takes away almost all your free time!

I'll talk to Keefe and see if he'd be willing to do it. I know he is mega busy right now... maybe if I get some in-stock in time before the Nov event I can ship you a kit w/ the "correcT" track pads

I was planning on going up to NJMP for that NASA event, but MidAtlantic decided to double points race Sat down at Summit. So now I NEED to go, otherwise I lose my season title To top all that off, I will be at SEMA, so now I have to take a redeye on standby Fri night!

Sounds like the HP+ "dust" caked itself into the slots.

 

I highly recommend, as I do to everyone who tracks their cars, to run separate pads for track. It's not terribly hard to change em out, though working T&S certainly takes away almost all your free time!

 

I'll talk to Keefe and see if he'd be willing to do it. I know he is mega busy right now... maybe if I get some in-stock in time before the Nov event I can ship you a kit w/ the "correcT" track pads

 

I was planning on going up to NJMP for that NASA event, but MidAtlantic decided to double points race Sat down at Summit. So now I NEED to go, otherwise I lose my season title To top all that off, I will be at SEMA, so now I have to take a redeye on standby Fri night!

Ah ha, yeah the NASA regions need to get together and not step on each others toes, with the increase in clubs out there, and a static to slightly shrinking client base....

Anyway let me know as I'd love to give em a shot and I'm almost positive they'll work out better for me

-mike

Well it appears that I cracked at least 1 if not both rear rotors over the weekend. Big ole cracks! All 4 are glazed so the pads need to be upgraded for track events for sure.

I am excited to try out these 4-pots at NJMP though.

-mike

Well it appears that I cracked at least 1 if not both rear rotors over the weekend. Big ole cracks! All 4 are glazed so the pads need to be upgraded for track events for sure.

 

I am excited to try out these 4-pots at NJMP though.

 

-mike

Mike, lemme know about those rears. I can get you set back up with those right away.