ISO Legacy GT - things to consider?

Long post. TDLR:

- In search of a clean 2010-2012 GT

- What to look for?

- Considerations before purchasing 2010-2012 GT

 

My son is looking for a car and he’s gravitated to the 5th gen Legacy GT. We are in a northern climate and get about 40 inches of snow on average through the winter. Insurance is very reasonable on the GT (much less than a WRX) and many WRX have been modded or run hard. Not to mention WRX and STI prices are high.

 

Looked at the 4th gen but right now prefers the 5th gen.

 

While he may eventually want to use it for a HPDE or lapping day (I am exploring alternatives for us for occasional tracking), this would be more of a daily driver car for him.

 

There are a few GTs out there. Looked at one yesterday but it was a little rougher than he was looking for cosmetically (a 20 footer - headliner starting to come free front and back, rear bumper spider cracking, scrapes on all four corners, few dings, oxidized hood, top and trim, thoroughly rock chipped front bumper, lower sides and just in front of rear wheels). It was good though for comparison as we begin the search.

 

I welcome thoughts on anything specific to these cars to look for. There are high mileage examples (150k+) but on the original block/heads - that seems like a lot from what I’ve read but welcome opinions on that. Seen a couple where blocks have been replaced which might be good. Couple of examples with some rust starting to bubble. We realize it’s a used car so have to decide what one can live with knowing too that future resale must be considered.

 

My concern is if the drivetrain at some point has a major issue (engine or trans) how much of a unicorn are they? I’ve read heads are specific to these and so finding a new head I’m guessing would be problematic. I’ve read something unique about the blocks too. Are there other blocks that are replacement candidates if needed? Are the transmissions shared from some other year WRX or are they unique to the GT as well?

 

So if you know of someone selling a good example let me know Also please share any “gotcha’s” that should be considered.

 

Thanks!

I would take the 5th gen over a fourth gen in a heartbeat. You need to look at the carfax and have a mechanic look over whichever car you end up finding. Make sure to also ask for any records they might have on paper(s). One of the biggest things that tends to happen on Subaru's engines is the headgaskets can go bad. You also need to keep an eye out for oil burning (due to valve cover gaskets and other gaskets going bad). These cars are like tanks in the snow, and I know this because we had our '13 Legacy for 7 years here in Massachusetts. Since you want a GT I wouldn't worry about the Manual Transmission inside of them, they are considered really good. The CVTs on Subarus are what you want to avoid when it comes to long term reliability. As far as rust, if you see any on a car then it typically is much worse underneath (the parts that you can't see). The only place I have ever seen rust on these cars is on the rear fenders in the corners, but it is almost always a bubble that is starting to rust.

I would take the 5th gen over a fourth gen in a heartbeat. You need to look at the carfax and have a mechanic look over whichever car you end up finding. Make sure to also ask for any records they might have on paper(s). One of the biggest things that tends to happen on Subaru's engines is the headgaskets can go bad. You also need to keep an eye out for oil burning (due to valve cover gaskets and other gaskets going bad). These cars are like tanks in the snow, and I know this because we had our '13 Legacy for 7 years here in Massachusetts. Since you want a GT I wouldn't worry about the Manual Transmission inside of them, they are considered really good. The CVTs on Subarus are what you want to avoid when it comes to long term reliability. As far as rust, if you see any on a car then it typically is much worse underneath (the parts that you can't see). The only place I have ever seen rust on these cars is on the rear fenders in the corners, but it is almost always a bubble that is starting to rust.

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes I would have a PPI done. I didn't realize that the EJ25 turbo engines had as much trouble with the head gaskets.

the turbo engines all have a required hg change at 120k. Some need it sooner, usually as a result of poor maintenance or abuse. Anything with a turbo replacement and original oil cooler is a rebuild waiting to happen

the turbo engines all have a required hg change at 120k. Some need it sooner, usually as a result of poor maintenance or abuse. Anything with a turbo replacement and original oil cooler is a rebuild waiting to happen

I don't see it on the scheduled maintenance so I'm assuming you are saying that most head gaskets on the turbo engines go around 120k and to just plan for it. Of course most for sale at this age seem to fall into that mileage range. I've been looking for the timing belt to have been done on time but will add head gaskets to inquire about.

 

Found one for sale that dealt with the head gasket issue at 130k miles so that doesn't sound too far off your 120k mark. I've seen examples of others at 150k that haven't had the head gasket go yet.

er, oops, tb is 120k.

 

hg fail from poor maintenance.

In a non modded GT that has been cared for with proper oil and coolant changes, head gaskets are unlikely to be an issue. Usually GT's with head gaskets issues are tuned (boost over 20 PSI can lift the heads), not cared for (coolant/oil eats away at the gasket) or have been overheated. Look externally at the head/block seam right above the exhaust manifold under the engine. Internal leaks can usually be seen by bubbles in the radiator while its running. You can also usually hear them. Sounds like a gurgling behind the instruments when you first start the car. Knock on wood mine is modded (~18psi boost), has 130k and no HG issues. Previous to me the car was dealer serviced at the recommended intervals.

 

When you drive it, hold the car in third gear for a little and listen for any unusual whine. Most pulls for tuning are done in third gear. Listen for any grinding while shifting which is indicative of synchros going bad. Make sure the gearbox oil is clean, should be yellowish brown, not dark (little dipstick on the right side of the trans below the intercooler). Its a reliable trans if cared for and not abused. It does have some quirks for those of us in cold climates. In the winter it needs 2 or 3 miles to warm up to shift smoothly.

 

Let it idle in neutral with the clutch out, and then slightly depress the clutch pedal. If it makes a bearing noise in either case its likely the release bearing is going.

 

If you can take it to a mechanic or have the ability to do this yourself

 

Pull the turbo inlet off and check the turbo for any shaft play. You would have to do this under the car since on the 5th gen the turbo is mounted under the engine. When you take the inlet off its easy to reach in and try to move the shaft.

 

If your buying a higher mileage car (100k plus) and the clutch has not been replaced, plan to replace it at some point. to test it - Take the car on a highway in 5th or 6th gear above 2500 rpm and mash it to the floor, give the turbo a chance to spool up. (You'll be hauling butt FYI so make sure you do it in a appropriate location) Clutch life really depends on the driver and where its driven (highway vrs city), so its hard to say when it will need to be done, but there is no real way to check it for wear. Doing a clutch on a subaru is fairly easy, maybe a days work. Mine had to be replaced at 110k, it was slipping when I bought the car.

 

Do a compression test - pay particular attention to cylinder 4 (rear drivers side) its the most common one to have issues because of the design of the cooling system - Spec is 142-171 PSI with less than 7 psi difference between cylinders. If there is a compression issue in cylinder 4 its more likely a burnt exhaust valve than a ringland or piston issue. Usually the head itself is ok, just needs a valve job. The heads are unique to this motor.

 

Check the engine subframe and the rear differential carrier/subframe for rust. They can be replaced, but its a PITA

 

Make sure the timing belt and idlers were done at 105k miles. If it wasn't, or you dont know - do it. Broken belt means big $$$'s. If you are doing it, replace the water pump while youre in there. Dont cheap out here - no chinesium idlers and tensioner.

 

Pull one of the coils off and see if the boot has oil on it. If it does it'll need valve cover gaskets done. While you have it out check the coil heatsink for rust/swelling. If they are rusty and swelling, the coils will need to be replaced sometime real soon. It's a fairly common issue. The NGK coils are about $75 each on rock auto.

 

Check the condition of the oil/coolant lines on the front of the turbo. Right under the crank pulley and front motor mount. If they are corroded or seeping replace them asap. If one lets go the turbo will be smoked. The road salt eats them away. They are about $60 each

 

If I think of anything else I'll add it

Edited September 7, 2020 by poconoracing

er, oops, tb is 120k.

 

hg fail from poor maintenance.

Yeah I've been checking for timing belt being done at 105k. I found a clean looking one but it has had some head gasket issues (replaced twice). Makes me a bit suspicious of it's history (4 owners).

 

In a non modded GT that has been cared for with proper oil and coolant changes, head gaskets are unlikely to be an issue. Usually GT's with head gaskets issues are tuned (boost over 20 PSI can lift the heads), not cared for (coolant/oil eats away at the gasket) or have been overheated. Look externally at the head/block seam right above the exhaust manifold under the engine. Internal leaks can usually be seen by bubbles in the radiator while its running. You can also usually hear them. Sounds like a gurgling behind the instruments when you first start the car. Knock on wood mine is modded (~18psi boost), has 130k and no HG issues. Previous to me the car was dealer serviced at the recommended intervals.

 

When you drive it, hold the car in third gear for a little and listen for any unusual whine. Most pulls for tuning are done in third gear. Listen for any grinding while shifting which is indicative of synchros going bad. Make sure the gearbox oil is clean, should be yellowish brown, not dark (little dipstick on the right side of the trans below the intercooler). Its a reliable trans if cared for and not abused. It does have some quirks for those of us in cold climates. In the winter it needs 2 or 3 miles to warm up to shift smoothly.

 

Let it idle in neutral with the clutch out, and then slightly depress the clutch pedal. If it makes a bearing noise in either case its likely the release bearing is going.

 

If you can take it to a mechanic or have the ability to do this yourself

 

Pull the turbo inlet off and check the turbo for any shaft play. You would have to do this under the car since on the 5th gen the turbo is mounted under the engine. When you take the inlet off its easy to reach in and try to move the shaft.

 

If your buying a higher mileage car (100k plus) and the clutch has not been replaced, plan to replace it at some point. to test it - Take the car on a highway in 5th or 6th gear above 2500 rpm and mash it to the floor, give the turbo a chance to spool up. (You'll be hauling butt FYI so make sure you do it in a appropriate location) Clutch life really depends on the driver and where its driven (highway vrs city), so its hard to say when it will need to be done, but there is no real way to check it for wear. Doing a clutch on a subaru is fairly easy, maybe a days work. Mine had to be replaced at 110k, it was slipping when I bought the car.

 

Do a compression test - pay particular attention to cylinder 4 (rear drivers side) its the most common one to have issues because of the design of the cooling system - Spec is 142-171 PSI with less than 7 psi difference between cylinders. If there is a compression issue in cylinder 4 its more likely a burnt exhaust valve than a ringland or piston issue. Usually the head itself is ok, just needs a valve job. The heads are unique to this motor.

 

Check the engine subframe and the rear differential carrier/subframe for rust. They can be replaced, but its a PITA

 

Make sure the timing belt and idlers were done at 105k miles. If it wasn't, or you dont know - do it. Broken belt means big $$$'s. If you are doing it, replace the water pump while youre in there. Dont cheap out here - no chinesium idlers and tensioner.

 

Pull one of the coils off and see if the boot has oil on it. If it does it'll need valve cover gaskets done. While you have it out check the coil heatsink for rust/swelling. If they are rusty and swelling, the coils will need to be replaced sometime real soon. It's a fairly common issue. The NGK coils are about $75 each on rock auto.

 

Check the condition of the oil/coolant lines on the front of the turbo. Right under the crank pulley and front motor mount. If they are corroded or seeping replace them asap. If one lets go the turbo will be smoked. The road salt eats them away. They are about $60 each

 

If I think of anything else I'll add it

Wow, now that is an awesome writeup! Thank you so much for this detailed response. This gives me great information on what to look for and to make sure any PPI also checks these items.

 

Thoughts on a compression test with the PPI or is that overkill if everything else looks good? I assume it's probably cheap insurance to do it...guess I'm answering my own question. Thanks again!

On a used performance-oriented turbocharged car, I would consider the compression check mandatory before I would consider purchasing. Modified doesn't mean wrecked - it taken care of, a modified vehicle can be plenty reliable.

 

 

One thing to consider is that it does have an EJ25 engine in it - while most of them do just fine, there have been instances of spun bearings (there was a class action suit that Subaru lost for the WRX/STi which has the same bottom end - and there are a few examples of folks having that happen to them here on this board (sadly, myself being one of them)) - there are plenty of examples of folks who tune the crap out of these engines with zero problems, though - so odds are it's a defect of some sort in some small percentage of the engines)

On a used performance-oriented turbocharged car, I would consider the compression check mandatory before I would consider purchasing.

 

One thing to consider is that it does have an EJ25 engine in it - while most of them do just fine, there have been instances of spun bearings

Okay if I get serious about one and it passes all the other checks then I can progress to the compression check.

 

Interesting on the spun bearings. I wasn't aware of that.

Love the car, second owner, 106k miles now and I’ve had it since 11k miles. Headgasket went at 59k, spun a bearing at ~91k. Budget for those repairs and then you’ll be happy if you don't need them. I’m in for the long haul as there isn’t much out there comparable.

Love the car, second owner, 106k miles now and I’ve had it since 11k miles. Headgasket went at 59k, spun a bearing at ~91k. Budget for those repairs and then you’ll be happy if you don't need them. I’m in for the long haul as there isn’t much out there comparable.

Can you give me an idea of what each of those cost you for repair? I want to make sure I'm understanding the potential outlay for these repairs. Thanks

I found a clean looking one but it has had some head gasket issues (replaced twice). Makes me a bit suspicious of it's history (4 owners).

 

I would try to stick with a one-owner car, or 2 previous owners at the maximum. Make sure they didn't keep the car for a few months and then try to dump it. Do you know what dealer the head gaskets were changed at (according to the history)?

Can you give me an idea of what each of those cost you for repair? I want to make sure I'm understanding the potential outlay for these repairs. Thanks

 

Headgaskets luckily was still under powertrain warranty so I don’t have that cost. The short block replacement was around $6k at the dealer which included sending the heads out for cleaning and a loaner car for a few weeks. SOA kicked in $2k towards that (so $4k my cost) and I believe it includes a 3/36 warranty on the SB. They indicated had I kept driving it and contaminated the heads and turbo it could have been around a $12k repair.

I would try to stick with a one-owner car, or 2 previous owners at the maximum. Make sure they didn't keep the car for a few months and then try to dump it. Do you know what dealer the head gaskets were changed at (according to the history)?

Yeah been trying to find a one owner or two owner situation. The one that had head gasket issues (twice) had them done at independent shops and not a dealer. Sounds like the first time around things didn't go right and a few months later done at a separate shop. I also found out it has accident history on the record.

 

Keeping my eyes open for my son and he's looking too. He's willing to wait for the right car at the right price. Luckily he's not in a rush. Many are in need of maintenance such as the timing belt which adds another $800 for that and closer to $1200 if you do the water pump at the same time.

Headgaskets luckily was still under powertrain warranty so I don’t have that cost. The short block replacement was around $6k at the dealer which included sending the heads out for cleaning and a loaner car for a few weeks. SOA kicked in $2k towards that (so $4k my cost) and I believe it includes a 3/36 warranty on the SB. They indicated had I kept driving it and contaminated the heads and turbo it could have been around a $12k repair.

Thanks for that info.

Yeah been trying to find a one owner or two owner situation. The one that had head gasket issues (twice) had them done at independent shops and not a dealer. Sounds like the first time around things didn't go right and a few months later done at a separate shop. I also found out it has accident history on the record.

 

Keeping my eyes open for my son and he's looking too. He's willing to wait for the right car at the right price. Luckily he's not in a rush. Many are in need of maintenance such as the timing belt which adds another $800 for that and closer to $1200 if you do the water pump at the same time.

 

Yah that car doesn't sound trustworthy. I hear you about your son being patient. I've been the exact same way for almost 6 months. I've been looking at so many cars I feel like a robot. I'm also willing to wait for the right car at the right place .

OP - if this is a car you are going to hpde with, you'll want to talk to those who have done that. Gteaser vomes to mind, I'm sure they are others

OP - if this is a car you are going to hpde with, you'll want to talk to those who have done that. Gteaser vomes to mind, I'm sure they are others

Hi boxkita. No this one is just a daily for him. Now, he may eventually want to take it to an HPDE event to better see what it can do, but this isn't primarily for that purpose. I'm still exploring other options there.

Can you give me an idea of what each of those cost you for repair? I want to make sure I'm understanding the potential outlay for these repairs. Thanks

 

i used an independent subaru specific shop for my HGs(full head gaskets/machining, valve job, new valve seals, a couple new lifter buckets and one new rocker),--including a new stage 1 clutch(mine was fine, but might as well while you're in there) and machined flywheel, a bunch of new seals(front and rear main, oil pan, and a couple other random seals), PCV, and other general little finnicky maintenancey things, the total came to about $4500. if i skipped the clutch and didn't go so hard on the heads and just had them skimmed it would have been closer to $3750, but i love this car and plan on keeping it forever, so what's another $750 to get the engine back perfect?

i used an independent subaru specific shop for my HGs(full head gaskets/machining, valve job, new valve seals, a couple new lifter buckets and one new rocker),--including a new stage 1 clutch(mine was fine, but might as well while you're in there) and machined flywheel, a bunch of new seals(front and rear main, oil pan, and a couple other random seals), PCV, and other general little finnicky maintenancey things, the total came to about $4500. if i skipped the clutch and didn't go so hard on the heads and just had them skimmed it would have been closer to $3750, but i love this car and plan on keeping it forever, so what's another $750 to get the engine back perfect?

Thank you for sharing that information. It helps me get my arms around potential expenses.

poconoracing did a very good job describing the issue with these cars. It is a good idea to do a compression as mention as that might show a lurking issue with valve needing to be adjusted.

 

These cars are rare but I would steer clear of a car that seems off (ie 2 headgaskets, 10 footers.)

 

I hope we are not scaring you away with all the repair bills. Head gaskets and spun bearing are on the less common side. I have seen quite a few of the 5th Gen go 200k+ miles on the original motor. Plan for the clutch & timing belt if not done. Be prepared for one of the other failure. I enjoy driving my Legacy GT and don't regret buying it.

I didn't see these addressed yet:

 

Cylinder heads are indeed specific to this car because they are dual avcs and have the provision for the oil scavenge pump on the passenger side head. This also means the camshafts are specific to this car, but the slot to drive the pump can be machined into any cam by a shop or a competent DIYer.

 

The short-block is a little less specific, I believe we have a higher compression ratio than the standard ej25 and the oil pan adapter reguires one bolt to be larger and one extra hole, many have used a standard ej25 short block with out issues by simply tapping the necessary hole larger and sealing the extra hole.

 

The transmission is indeed specific to this car it is similar to the 2015+ wrx but not the same, the 5th gen transmission has mounting bosses in the bellhousing to attach the powertrain mounts to, unlike any other Subaru ever made besides the related outback models. There are a handful of successful STI swaps using various methods of eliminating those mounts on the bellhousing.

 

As for the reliability, its hard to say for somethings headgaskets should indeed just be a given on any turbo Subaru, the burned valves is another kinda outlier that is a little to common to be written off as well. The transmission has had synchro issues as well as center diff issues, and with good power has been known to strip some gears, breaks some axles etc. If you understand the limitations, these are great cars with an awesome factory turbo setup, one of the most efficient Subaru ever made. I've had mine since 2013 and it still puts a smile on my face most days!

I hope we are not scaring you away with all the repair bills. Head gaskets and spun bearing are on the less common side. I have seen quite a few of the 5th Gen go 200k+ miles on the original motor. Plan for the clutch & timing belt if not done. Be prepared for one of the other failure. I enjoy driving my Legacy GT and don't regret buying it.

 

 

that's a big thing to remember...on an enthusiast board, with people who are modifying their cars(generally), reliability is going to go down and bigger problems are going to crop up "more often". Also, a lot of these cars are hitting higher mileage being 10 years old, and any 10 year old car is going to have its share of issues just in general...just part of the game when not buying new.

I didn't see these addressed yet:

 

Cylinder heads are indeed specific to this car because they are dual avcs and have the provision for the oil scavenge pump on the passenger side head. This also means the camshafts are specific to this car, but the slot to drive the pump can be machined into any cam by a shop or a competent DIYer.

 

The short-block is a little less specific, I believe we have a higher compression ratio than the standard ej25 and the oil pan adapter reguires one bolt to be larger and one extra hole, many have used a standard ej25 short block with out issues by simply tapping the necessary hole larger and sealing the extra hole.

 

The transmission is indeed specific to this car it is similar to the 2015+ wrx but not the same, the 5th gen transmission has mounting bosses in the bellhousing to attach the powertrain mounts to, unlike any other Subaru ever made besides the related outback models. There are a handful of successful STI swaps using various methods of eliminating those mounts on the bellhousing.

 

As for the reliability, its hard to say for somethings headgaskets should indeed just be a given on any turbo Subaru, the burned valves is another kinda outlier that is a little to common to be written off as well. The transmission has had synchro issues as well as center diff issues, and with good power has been known to strip some gears, breaks some axles etc. If you understand the limitations, these are great cars with an awesome factory turbo setup, one of the most efficient Subaru ever made. I've had mine since 2013 and it still puts a smile on my face most days!

Great info thanks.

 

that's a big thing to remember...on an enthusiast board, with people who are modifying their cars(generally), reliability is going to go down and bigger problems are going to crop up "more often". Also, a lot of these cars are hitting higher mileage being 10 years old, and any 10 year old car is going to have its share of issues just in general...just part of the game when not buying new.

Yeah that makes sense. We are trying to find a good example and ideally one with no known issues or at least nothing major. We are being very careful with modified cars since reliability is pretty important as it will be his primary transportation.