BNR 16g oil supply

After talking with Brian at BNR today I am planning to run an oil line to bypass the existing line from the head. I’m considering using the rear oil galley as my feed and setting up a tee for my oil pressure gauge on the output side of an FP inline filter. Any thoughts, recommendations, or existing 16g owners experience with this subject would be mighty helpful!

Thanks

-Dave

Dave-a good question and legitimate concern. This question comes up from time to time and there are a lot of options out there for braided lines, different connection points, inline filters, and different source points within the engine bay. Having built many, many turbos and many people here can vouch for me, here's my take on the advice you were given:

Why? The OE oil feed line (3/16" i.d.) is absolutely fine. Putting a filter inline is a waste of time and potential choke spot that can cause turbo failure (think about banjo bolt filters) due to oil starvation from contamination. I know, you'll say that you'll check it, but it only takes a second of starvation and the turbo is crashed.

The car has an oil filter on it. It's designed to filter the oil. The engine has a turbo oil feed line on it. It's designed to feed sufficient oil to the turbo.

Think about it this way-the turbo is the heart and the engine is the body. If you block the artery to the heart, the body dies. Block the oil feed to the turbo and it grenades and takes the block with it. Putting any kind of restriction other than the oil feed banjo bolt on top of the turbo (which has a single .55" orifice in it) is foolish. Why do you think Subaru removed the banjo bolt filters? Because it was a STOOOOPID idea.

Lastly, BNR was recommending not too long ago that you use a sandwich plate under the oil filter as the feed source for the turbo and run it directly to the banjo fitting on the top of the turbo. This is a VERY bad idea as if you leave the car sit for more than a few hours, the oil has a chance to drain down into the tube and then you have a dry start condition with the turbo for a second or two while the oil pressure re-fills the line.

The design of the OE turbo feed, for most direct bolt on turbos, is absolutely fine and holds oil in place. If you go to a huge turbo to make big WHP (500+), then you need to reconsider as you're dealing with different parameters and the turbo requirements are substantially different. Your 16G is a Td05 MHI based turbo and is absolutely fine to use the standard OE oil feed line.

LOL...I know Sprank won't agree with me on the inline filter. He posted as I was composing.

Oh, you would be surprised. LOL.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OEM designed turbo oil feed system as long as it is clean and free of obstruction.

BNR has been all over the place with oil recommendations. I personally would not buy a BNR turbo, knowing what I do now.

I'm running my turbo off the rear oil galley like OP is proposing. In hindsight it was stupid overkill, and the long lines are probably delaying full oil pressure getting to the turbo. It also makes working on the engine and turbo a pain in the ass.

I think Brian has been burned too many times from people putting his turbos on engine full of glitter and/or clogged filters and then calming they had previously removed them. You dont see WRX guys doing this crazy stuff.

Thanks! This is why I’m asking.. I want to hear some experience feedback.

I was thinking the same thing about the filter sandwich plate being down hill from the turbo possibly siphoning oil away from the turbo thats why I was considering the oil galley.

As for why tee the oil pressure gauge after filter? I figured this way I can monitor if pressure decreases due to the filter clogging while also keeping an eye on the engine.

Now if I were to use the oe oil line off the head I would think a braided line (off the head) would be a better idea? Due to the restrictor on the turbo side banjo... that orifice is really small!

That orifice HAS to be small. If you overfeed the turbo with oil, you'll do what's called "Float" the journal bearings. This allows the bearings to actually stop for a split second, then rotate, the stop again, then rotate again...........and on and on. This creates flat spots on the bearings on both the inside and outside.

Turbos use a bearing system that rotates in both directions-the bearing rotates in the center housing and the turbine shaft rotates inside the bearing at the same time. The float condition interrupts this for a split second at a time, but eventually, it wears away as the flat spots begin to run together and then you end up with excessive side play.

I have poop tons of experience with the Subaru turbo oiling system, LOL.

Listen to JmP the man is sharing valuable info. Free education.

As for some of the comments made by the manufacterer... as well as the fact that, yes WRX/STi/Foresters/Bajas dont have an issue with the OEM turbo oil feed... is it not interesting that they share the same design?

utc has experienceed what I was getting at. Its a tight fit at the rear galley. I like the galley for an oil pressure sample, but lines to the turbo would get very messy.

If you think you are going to stop a cataclysmic event by watching an oil pressure guage you are going to have an accident as you wont be watching the road. By the time you see the drop, its generally too late.

Interesting... Brian stated several times that you can't over oil his turbos. Is he doing something different, or his statement as such just incorrect?

Believe me, his turbos are nothing special. They are just a Td05 center section that's machined down to adapt to the ring he uses to put a VF40ish compressor housing(now his own casting but a replica of a VF40-not a bad idea in itself but not executed as well as it could be) on. Standard Td05 MHI turbos require an orificed banjo bolt in the feed line.

Remember, if you open it all the way up, you also lose some line pressure as the flow increases and the pressure decreases. The turbos rely on the correct amount of oil at the correct pressure and that small orifice that takes it from a full 3/16" feed line to 0.55" orifice at the turbo feed is what Subaru and IHI determined is necessary.

While I believe there are some pretty damn dumb things that Subaru does, I know they worked this out well before they applied to their vehicles, knowing this was a ticking time bomb for people that didn't do the maintenance, and even then, how many hundreds of thousands are out there that normal people (read that as NOT LGT or NASIOC morons <like me too> that want to make a stinking 2.5 liter have more horsepower than most big block 8 cylinder engines) purchased and ran them 200K plus.

Subaru has the turbo oil feed line worked out. It works and will work for you too.

Great info! Thanks! I just want to get this build right. That orifice is so damn small though...I’m assuming it’s the same size across the board with the wrx (vf52) and other turbo Subarus?

 

If you think you are going to stop a cataclysmic event by watching an oil pressure guage you are going to have an accident as you wont be watching the road. By the time you see the drop, its generally too late.

I have the prosport halo electronic oil pressure gauge. It has a low pressure alert that I can set. It beeps and flashes lights if pressure gets below said threshold. So no need to take eyes off the road. Not saying that I can save anything anyway if it drops but ya never know..

He said Prosport. LOL. Best thing you can do for your car (and your rep) is ditch the Prosport gauge. Its blinky lights and sounds is all its good for, a "parade". Cheap electronics are like cheap tattoos. Never good.

Off the top of my head I do believe the VF52 and VF46 share the same turbo banjo bolt. But I could be mistaken, it is always best to reference a parts catalog.

He said Prosport. LOL. Best thing you can do for your car (and your rep) is ditch the Prosport gauge. Its blinky lights and sounds is all its good for, a "parade". Cheap electronics are like cheap tattoos. Never good.

 

 

Off the top of my head I do believe the VF52 and VF46 share the same turbo banjo bolt. But I could be mistaken, it is always best to reference a parts catalog.

Hey.. easy there .. I never said I was proud of it.. I originally got it for the almost matchy match to the cluster ... but it doesn’t even match the boost gauge next to it.. was just sayin it gives me a warning so I don’t have to stare at it. Is it reliable? Probably not ..but better than the oil light on the dash that tells you to pull over and order a new shortblock? Maybe?

Btw..no need to flame for the boost gauge as I know now its pretty much useless.. was my first purchase for the car..

Hmm.. I’ll cross reference that banjo bolt today and see if the feed line is the same too

Thanks

Boost gauge is a good idea even if just for troubleshooting. Afr gauge is a good idea too. A subarus oil pressure varies so much that a low limit warning is too late, just like the dash lamp.

It is difficult to exactly match the dash.

After being on here since July 2004, when it came time for me to replace the vf40 on my wagon, there was no way I was going to use that turbo. I ordered a new vf52 from AZPinstalls.com on a Tuesday morning. I had it the next day.

I did this after getting the dreaded P0011 andP0021 CEL. Well actually I drove the car another 1000 miles after those CEL and my trusted mechanic removed the banjo filter and changed the oil. He told me to listen to the turbo, 1000 miles later, that morning I heard it whistle, a 1/2 mile from home. I turned around, drove home, parked it and called Mike at AZP.

117,000 miles later with Amsoil 5w-40 European classic oil there is still no shaft play on the vf52 with the stock oil feed line.

If I had to use a oil pressure gauge I would only use a direct reading gauge with a copper line. No electronic stuff for something that important. Same with water temp, direct reading gauges only. That's what we used on the race car. But I'm old... school...

Just realized it was 7 years ago, almost to the day that the vf40 whistled.

Edit, just checked my note book on the car, I replaced the vf40 on Aug 20 2011 at 142,200 miles.

Found this. https://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/subaru_oil/Subaru_oil_line.jpg

Also though the part #s aren’t the same for the oem lines, I should be able to determine that the orifice is the same size for the vf52 in wrx due to this info from forced performance.

That orifice HAS to be small. If you overfeed the turbo with oil, you'll do what's called "Float" the journal bearings. This allows the bearings to actually stop for a split second, then rotate, the stop again, then rotate again...........and on and on. This creates flat spots on the bearings on both the inside and outside.

 

Turbos use a bearing system that rotates in both directions-the bearing rotates in the center housing and the turbine shaft rotates inside the bearing at the same time. The float condition interrupts this for a split second at a time, but eventually, it wears away as the flat spots begin to run together and then you end up with excessive side play.

Does this apply to all journal bearing type turbos or is it possible that the td05 does require (or benefit from) unrestricted flow as per BNR and FP?

But they are both MHI center housings (or clones of them), presumably the same thing that JmP6889928 uses in some of his turbo upgrade builds.

Every one of these aftermarket turbo suppliers just uses parts from (or clones of them) from the big guys. They aren't designing anything themselves other than maybe compressor and exhaust housings.

According to BNR their turbos require a higher oil volume. The IPT oil line kit was designed to supply a higher volume of clean oil. Originally BNR specified a 10 micron filter element and later changed to a 40 micron filter element.

I dont make the turbos. I just regurgitate what I am told.