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Bilsteins vs. Tokico HTS struts and what springs then?


Scottybue

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Ok, ok, ok... I know Bilsteins are the cock of the walk, but for the money, would Tokico's potentially serve me better? I can't decide on Bilstein's rev. A, B, C, or even the GT's. Tokico's HTS has adjustable damping, so I'm thinking I could dial in something in that range and set it and forget it. Hell, if the HTS' are good enough for Mach V Dan's shop car... I will most likely have to go with JDM or USDM Spec B tophats either way.

 

Even so, if I get struts, which springs are known to show an even drop on all four corners in a limited wagon? Swifts seem to do alright. Who has M/T wagon pinks? Didn't someone need Tanabe's in the front to even out the Pinks in back? I know you guys love a good debate, let's get it rollin'. :icon_cool

now rocking the 2007 Mini Cooper S
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the Bilsteins are that good? you can buy top of the line coilovers for that. help me. bosco

 

Bilsteins are very good, and you cannot but a "top of the line" coilover for the price. Top of the line coilovers can cost more than $10K. However, you are quite correct to note that you can get coilovers that perform extremely well for the same prices as new Bilsteins and springs.

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iON makes Bilstein specific springs.

 

FWIW I have Rev A and iON specifc springs and love them.

 

 

Only thing is now I am eyeing up some DMS coil-overs. They are building a track right next to my house and that is making top end (not the best, but $2500-3000) coil-overs seem really attractive to me.

 

I may sell mine.:icon_wink

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I'm running Tokico's and JDM specific Ions. I love the set-up and the adjustability let me dial-in the exact ride qulaity I wanted. Rclark0032 who has run both JDM SpecB and GT Bilsteins (the latter being his favorite) rode in my car today and was very happy with the set-up.
ignore him, he'll go away.
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I'm running Tokico's and JDM specific Ions. I love the set-up and the adjustability let me dial-in the exact ride qulaity I wanted. Rclark0032 who has run both JDM SpecB and GT Bilsteins (the latter being his favorite) rode in my car today and was very happy with the set-up.

 

 

Sweet, sweet. Are the JDM Ion's known to have issues with rear-end drop like the USDM ones?

 

It's sounding more and more like Tokicos are the way to go. Would it be possible to even find *new* Bilsteins for around $750-$800?

now rocking the 2007 Mini Cooper S
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Sweet, sweet. Are the JDM Ion's known to have issues with rear-end drop like the USDM ones?

 

It's sounding more and more like Tokicos are the way to go. Would it be possible to even find *new* Bilsteins for around $750-$800?

I've got a sedan and thus have no real world wagon suspension experience. I can tell you that the tokico/Ion combo sits higher in the rear than the stock/ion combo. While I didn't mind the stock/ion drop in the back, it was giving me some rubbing issues when I test fit my new 18x8 summer wheels.

 

Member littleblueGT has JDM specific Ions w. JDM Bilsteins on his wagon. I believe he is not only running the HD version rears, which help the wagon looked not so "slammed" but also has a second rear spring seat to help with spacing as well. One thing to keep in mind is that I tried a second spring seat with the Tokicos and the result was WAY too much lift in the rear. The tokicos are different from the stock rear shocks just enough to negate the use of the seat w/ Ions on the sedan anyways. My advice if you go that route would be to have a set of the rear spring seats on hand (~$30) just incase the car drops too low for your tastes in the rear. Its an easy fix to pull the rear shocks out again and add the spring seats later.

 

Oh, and no, you won't find new Bilstein's for $750-800. That's what a lot of used JDM take-offs have been going for lately with JDM springs. I believe new USDM Bilsteins can be had for about $1,200.

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Member littleblueGT has JDM specific Ions w. JDM Bilsteins on his wagon. I believe he is not only running the HD version rears, which help the wagon looked not so "slammed" but also has a second rear spring seat to help with spacing as well.

 

I used to have the normal rear springs and the car sat level, but looked a little low in the back due to the way the rear wheel well arches are made, so I put an extra spring seat in and it was perfect IMO.

 

So IMO normal iON rears + rear spring seat = perfect.

 

Other option: get wagon rear springs for a sedan.

 

What I have now is HD rears (really made for wagon owners) in the back o my sedan and it was waaaaay to high in the rear, that is w/o an extra spring seat. Then I cut the springs a little at a time to get the look I wanted (I also wanted a higher rate in the rear to help with rotation, which happens when you cut springs)

 

So HD rears in a sedan w/o extra spring seat = too high (in a wagon likely perfect)

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Didn't someone need Tanabe's in the front to even out the Pinks in back?

 

To further elaborate on this question, the member in mind has a 2.5i wagon. My 2.5i sedan was a lot higher in the front on tokicos + pinks than my GT on the same setup is now.

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so what's the difference between Ions and Ion HD's? :icon_conf (I should know as an Ion owner, but nevertheless, I claim incompetency here)

HD's are a rear spring option w/ a stiffer spring rate. Its intended use is for wagons but can also be used on sedans if a stiffer spring or larger wheel gap is preferred. Three basic flavors: regular sport springs, JDM specific fronts, HD rears.

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so what's the difference between Ions and Ion HD's? :icon_conf (I should know as an Ion owner, but nevertheless, I claim incompetency here)

 

iON has three rear springs for our cars:

 

sedan rears = least stiff

wagon rears = little stiffer to compensate for a heavier rear end

HD rears = stiffest, mostly for wagon owners that might put a lot of stuff in the back

 

 

Technically they are all interchangeable.

 

I ended up cutting my HD rears for my sedan because it was too high. AS you can see here:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=24950&d=1158874116

 

 

I like it now that I cut my rear springs, because now it is even stiffer in the rear, which is what I wanted (for rotation).

 

If you don't want to cut springs etc I suggest getting wagon springs for a sedan and HD rears for a wagon.

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Understood on the HD's, thanks. However, with JDM tophats I will need JDM-specific Ions? Or would my USDM Ion fronts work? What about the Wagon pinks, are they a more even drop throughout? How about swifts?
now rocking the 2007 Mini Cooper S
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Understood on the HD's, thanks. However, with JDM tophats I will need JDM-specific Ions?

 

JDM top-hats = Bilstein specific tophats. They raise the car by 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch (all things being equal).

 

If you use springs that lower a normal USDM LGT 1 inch it will only be about 1/2 lower in the front w/ those top-hats.

 

They work, but likely you will not like the look as the front end will look too high.

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are the sti tophats any lower?

Only two options in tophats: #1 non-bilstein (USDM GT, LGT, 2.5i) and #2 bilstein specific (JDM GT, JDM SpecB, USDM SpecB). Bilensteins and Tokico's will only work with JDM/Bilstein specific tophats. Stock shicks/struts will work with the JDM/Bilstein tophats, but will result in a 1/2" higher ride height.

 

IMO, you don't buy topshats to alter the ride height, you buy the proper tophats for the struts/shocks you plan on running. Match the proper springs to effect your ride height.

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I completely agree. So...

 

If I get Bilsteins or Tokicos and JDM tophats, with the same springs I have now, only ditching the crappy KYB's, I should be roughly the same ride height in front, or higher?

 

Also, what about Cusco's Sport Springs? They advertise 1.75" drop in front and 1" drop in rear. Would these work for an even wheel gap with the JDM tophats? Does anyone know if the Cusco springs will crumble (figuratively) under a load in the back of the wagon? Would I be better off with Ion HD's back there?

now rocking the 2007 Mini Cooper S
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I completely agree. So...

 

If I get Bilsteins or Tokicos and JDM tophats, with the same springs I have now, only ditching the crappy KYB's, I should be roughly the same ride height in front, or higher?

 

Also, what about Cusco's Sport Springs? They advertise 1.75" drop in front and 1" drop in rear. Would these work for an even wheel gap with the JDM tophats? Does anyone know if the Cusco springs will crumble (figuratively) under a load in the back of the wagon? Would I be better off with Ion HD's back there?

 

Again, same springs means front will be higher!

 

No idea about the cuscos, how much weight do you put in the back?

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Alright, maybe I'm just not getting it. If I left the stock struts on and put JDM tophats, and kept same springs, the set-up would be higher. Understood. But isn't the spring perch lower on a JDM-specific strut, thus equalizing the raise if I had stuck to a USDM strut on a JDM tophat? Not trying to fight. just trying to get it right in my own head.

 

How much did your ION HD's lower the rear?

 

 

Not a lot, maybe on average about 40lbs on a day-to-day basis. But every now and then it can creep up to 2-300lbs if I'm moving stuff.

now rocking the 2007 Mini Cooper S
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