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After 6 months a few things that bug me....


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1. Rough turn over on initial start. When the car sits overnight, the first start of the day (in a heated garage that is 62 degrees) feels like someone kicks the engine and the whole car shakes. Does anyone else notice that? Once it is warmed up for started/stopped more frequently it's fine but the longer it sits it just has a really rough turn over that shakes the whole car. Kinda like starting an old prop airplane.

 

2. CVVT chirp. Start up the car, let it run for a minute, reverse down my driveway, stop completely, go into D. in about 2 seconds it goes CHIRP and then eventually goes into gear. Subaru has a tech note on this saying it is completely normal. Old school me it's like belts slipping but they say no it's fine. Seriously neighbors look at me.

 

3. Today it was 37 degrees. Bright orange full screen and beep letting me know there may be icy conditions followed by a smaller orange light which stayed on that is a road w/ a snow flake in it. What the heck. Any way to disable that?

 

4. Body roll sensor is for old people. Take a turn too fast and bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz abs brakes body role sensor thinks you are going to die so it hits the brakes.

 

5. Collision avoidance is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too sensitive.

 

6. Lots of rattles at only 2200 miles

 

7. At least 6 seconds between R and D shifting when backing out of the driveway first thing in the morning... plus... cvvt chirp

 

8. Horrible paint quality. Bottom of rockers are not painted. Bottom of trunk lid not painted. Just overspray.

 

9. Felt lined wheel well liners collecting mud/water/mold.

 

10. Inadequate underbody liner behind front wheel wells where rocks hit. You can tell this is where the car comes down the production line on the machine. They just never go back and touch it up but instead leave metal in a high rock area.

 

11. huge difference in panel gaps. 5mm difference between rear driver and passenger doors.

 

My playlist of annoying rattles and collision avoidance failures:

 

 

 

12. panel gaps are horrible

 

13. hvac auto mode sucks major balls and i am not the only one. have to set it on 62 in order for it not to get balls hot in the winter.

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/heater-blowing-too-hot-air.516187/page-3

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Edited by bms231
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1. Mine starts fine but also gives a little vibration maybe three seconds after it turns over. I have wondered what this is. It is only on cold starts as well. The whole car never shakes or anything like you describe just a start then a 2nd deviation in rpm. Not a shake but I notice it.

 

2. Mine does not have the Chirp option. Goes straight into gear and off I go. Does not sound "normal" to me.

 

3. No way I have heard of to disable that. It happens a lot here in Colorado- almost every day. My previous car did it as well. However not sure what you mean by "full screen". Mine beeps and a notice appears between the gauges on the dash. That disappears pretty quick and a icon appears down by the odo. Easy to ignore at that point.

Edited by Ronin3.6R
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I don't find the startup too rough. The ASS can be worse.

 

I too get the chirp, usually shortly after a cold start and going from reverse to drive. This adds to the annoyance of the strange delay of putting in reverse and nothing happening for a moment.

 

Other things that bug me are the inconsistencies. Will the passenger grabbing the handle unlock all doors or not? Will the car recognize me? Which settings will be applied to seating and temperatures? Will the head unit boot up quickly or will I have to wait? Why did the screen go black? Why do I have to constantly adjust the radio volume? If I hit a button will it take? Why do I have to hit so many buttons to turn the seat heaters off? Will the AVH button work today? Will AVH engage at this stop? Will ASS kick in at this stop? Why did ASS not last longer? Why is the accelerator pedal so non-linear? Why did the CVT pick that gear? How can it tell me to stay in my lane when it won't let me use auto-steer with cruise? Why is it beeping that it can't see lines when normal driving?

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1. Rough turn over on initial start. When the car sits overnight, the first start of the day (in a heated garage that is 62 degrees) feels like someone kicks the engine and the whole car shakes. Does anyone else notice that? Once it is warmed up for started/stopped more frequently it's fine but the longer it sits it just has a really rough turn over that shakes the whole car. Kinda like starting an old prop airplane.

 

 

 

 

 

2. CVVT chirp. Start up the car, let it run for a minute, reverse down my driveway, stop completely, go into D. in about 2 seconds it goes CHIRP and then eventually goes into gear. Subaru has a tech note on this saying it is completely normal. Old school me it's like belts slipping but they say no it's fine. Seriously neighbors look at me.

 

 

 

3. Today it was 37 degrees. Bright orange full screen and beep letting me know there may be icy conditions followed by a smaller orange light which stayed on that is a road w/ a snow flake in it. What the heck. Any way to disable that?

The road icon with the snowflake is the winter mode.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

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"Why is the accelerator pedal so non-linear?"

Is it as bad as my wife's Forester in that you barely press down the throttle and it gives the engine 50% acceleration....and 1/2" throttle is essentially flooring it, making smooth takeoffs nearly impossible? Excessive throttle tip-in is what they call it I think?

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"Why is the accelerator pedal so non-linear?"

Is it as bad as my wife's Forester in that you barely press down the throttle and it gives the engine 50% acceleration....and 1/2" throttle is essentially flooring it, making smooth takeoffs nearly impossible? Excessive throttle tip-in is what they call it I think?

I think it might be the other way around for some people as in you press the pedal and not much happens.

 

It took maybe 5000km for mine to fully learn my driving style but I have no complaints with laggy throttle or "not the right gear" as others have.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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1. Rough turn over on initial start. When the car sits overnight, the first start of the day (in a heated garage that is 62 degrees) feels like someone kicks the engine and the whole car shakes. Does anyone else notice that? Once it is warmed up for started/stopped more frequently it's fine but the longer it sits it just has a really rough turn over that shakes the whole car. Kinda like starting an old prop airplane.

 

 

2. CVVT chirp. Start up the car, let it run for a minute, reverse down my driveway, stop completely, go into D. in about 2 seconds it goes CHIRP and then eventually goes into gear. Subaru has a tech note on this saying it is completely normal. Old school me it's like belts slipping but they say no it's fine. Seriously neighbors look at me.

 

3. Today it was 37 degrees. Bright orange full screen and beep letting me know there may be icy conditions followed by a smaller orange light which stayed on that is a road w/ a snow flake in it. What the heck. Any way to disable that?

 

Hi bms231

 

1. I did not notice rough starts on my Legacy, and my Legacy sits outside, some times for 4 days straight.

 

2. Yes, the Chirp is normal. My wife's Ascent chirps when going from R to D. There is a thread about this on the Ascent forums. I will try to post it when I get a chance.

 

3. Its a slick roads warning. Subaru's have had it for years but started using the yellow icons to warn you of this since the last gen. My 05 and 13 Legacy would blink the temperature number when it fell below 37. I think my wife's 08 Tribeca would blink too, but I forget. My brother just brought a 2020 Impreza and that replaced a 2013 Legacy. That light was new to him too. He freaked out and called the dealer about it.

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I think it might be the other way around for some people as in you press the pedal and not much happens.

 

It took maybe 5000km for mine to fully learn my driving style but I have no complaints with laggy throttle or "not the right gear" as others have.

 

For me the pedal lags some times but other times it is overly sensitive. The inconsistency makes everything worse. If you really want to feel strange lurches hit the gas when the car is braking from ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control) which it does when a car slows in front of you to make a turn.

 

I've done the pedal learning procedure and it helped for a while but didn't last.

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I see "chirp" threads back to 2016, most attributed to the CVT however the actual cause is debated. I don't hear a chirp at all but that does not mean it's not there...lol (old ears).

 

I'm not too pleased with throttle either and am learning how to drive it. I have the throttle/pedal % on the screen (widget). 35-40% seems the smoothest. Lower and you get a brisk take off followed by what feels like a shift into 4th. Manual works great btw. Or if you are 50%+ it does not leave the power band as quick. I'm hoping there is a correction and I know that is part of Cobb's map but not everyone whats to install a map.

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11,000 miles here. The car’s primary purpose is transportation. The secondary purpose is to annoy me.

 

Alarm sensory overload, and I have many shut off. The start/stop system, even though I have the fresh update. Car has dementia and forgets who I am. The system crashes. Erratic system behavior (hey, why is Sirius radio paused? where are the seat climate buttons!?). Cheap feeling trunk lid. Lane centering system that fights and wants to propel me into to the right.

 

It would have been pricier but I wish the new TLX had been available last May when I had to lease my next car.

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All of the reasons that why as much as I get tired of working on my old car, I will never in a million years buy a brand new car... You figure if you buy a new machine you wouldn't have to deal with a bunch of nonsense, but then you realize new cars are not "machines" anymore, they're obnoxious plastic computers (full of technology that no one asked for) that are prone to such "glitches". Too bad really. When I was younger I always dreamed of the day I could buy a brand new car and drive hassle free, and now that I could easily afford one I have to stick with my 15 year old car because it seems like less of a hassle...
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Reckless- I get where you are coming from but this is more a matter of perspective. I'm the guy who bought this car as it is new, no worries, free service for the warranty period etc. The LAST thing I want to do is work on a car. Some enjoy it - I don't .

 

At this point (and I hope there are others) I have not had any issues especially now the auto stop button is right on the home screen. I had two alternatives to the XT but both 10K more. So far (fingers crossed) at all of 1K miles, we are good. Good news is, sounds like we are both happy....... happy Holidays..

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Reckless- I get where you are coming from but this is more a matter of perspective. I'm the guy who bought this car as it is new, no worries, free service for the warranty period etc. The LAST thing I want to do is work on a car. Some enjoy it - I don't .

 

At this point (and I hope there are others) I have not had any issues especially now the auto stop button is right on the home screen. I had two alternatives to the XT but both 10K more. So far (fingers crossed) at all of 1K miles, we are good. Good news is, sounds like we are both happy....... happy Holidays..

 

Happy holidays to you too!

 

I agree, some people love working on their cars for some reason like it's a great day to spend a Saturday or something, but I hate it with every ounce of my soul.

 

Yet there's one thing that bothers me even more than that, it's when an inanimate object disobeys me... If I had a car with an automatic transmission and it didn't get into gear as fast as I could move my hand, that'd drive me nuts. Or if I push a "button" to change a mode on the radio or something and it decides it isn't ready to do what I want because a switch is no longer a switch but a computer calculation, that would make my blood boil. I can't stand working on cars, but I like to be in control of the objects that I own. I'd rather bust my knuckles in the garage and make my back sore because at least those wrenches move when I physically push on them, and if I know my car is down it's because I either wasn't strong/fast enough or smart enough to figure out how to fix it in a timely manner. There's no chance of "will it decide to do what I want today", especially after spending most of a year's salary in one shot, for that kind of coin it had better be perfect. I couldn't imagine spending that much money on something and still having it aggravate me. At least now when I have car trouble there's nobody to blame but myself.

 

To each their own, I'm not saying don't buy a new car if that's what makes you happy. I just find it sad that we can't even rely on brand new cars to be reliable anymore for at least a year or two. Seems like right out of the box they're having problems. At least it takes mechanical systems a few thousand miles to start wearing out or developing "hiccups".

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Recklass.... Understood. I really hope you find a happy medium with the technology. I am fortunate enough to have enjoyed quite a few cars (old and new) and enjoy them so if every time I got in this one, if I was just waiting for something to go sideways it would drive me nuts. The auto stop and CVT kinda bug me but I'm accepting that as "part of the car" and it is not much of a bother. However if I daily had some minor irritation that would drive me nuts too. Last year I had the pleasure of owning a fully restored 1970 Mustang. Now that "technology" was interesting to say the least. Have a great New year.....

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this thread has turned out to be awesome.

 

I will add one new one to the mix my dash started to rattle this evening with less than 2,000 mi on the car. it's up by the defrost vents. it's amazing everything is held together by plastic clips. what do they think was going to happen. I also had a rattle underneath the glove box and took it out and found that one of the vent directors towards your feet was completely loose.

 

https://youtu.be/UNEsoXcUacs

Edited by bms231
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  • 2 weeks later...

Happy new year! I echo bms231's assessment that this thread has been super helpful.

 

Anyone miss me in the past 9 years? Unfortunately, the 2012 Acura TL MT that replaced my 2008 Spec.B is no more. I had hoped I would drive the TL to the ground and make it last 15 or 20 years. T-T

 

Seeing how the 2021 Acura TLX Type S won't arrive till summer and out of my price range anyway, I am now forced into buying another vehicle. I've narrowed my choices down to the 2021 Mazda CX-5 Signature and 2021 Subaru Legacy Touring XT. (Both have similar MSRP, turbo-4, AWD; save for the vehicle type.)

 

I had high hopes for the Touring XT, until I test drove it. After coming off of 14 years driving a Spec.B and the TL, the gen 7 felt like it had too much body roll. That instantly put the CX-5 on the top of the list. But the deal I've worked out on the Subaru is insanely good! Before pulling the trigger, I decided to log back in to legacygt.com.

 

So here we are. I've read most of the threads, and I'm slightly concerned. What advice or additional thoughts can you provide? One of my biggest regrets was selling my Spec.B. That was supposed to be the vehicle I was going to drive to the ground, but that annoying rattle in the dash drove me insane. That was the primary reason for my selling it. And to read that random noises are still a thing on gen 7 may not bode well (door panel/speaker, vent director under glove box, noise from the rear).

 

So what say you? I would like to be a Subaru owner for the 3rd time around, but honest feedback of your praises and gripes on this gen 7 is greatly appreciated.

 

[speaking of regrets... Learning Subaru was swapping out that improper sized plastic plug in the firewall while performing the airbag recall made me question why I sold my Spec.B even more. LOL]

Edited by StHalcyon
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...

 

So what say you? I would like to be a Subaru owner for the 3rd time around, but honest feedback of your praises and gripes on this gen 7 is greatly appreciated.

 

[speaking of regrets... Learning Subaru was swapping out that improper sized plastic plug in the firewall while performing the airbag recall made me question why I sold my Spec.B even more. LOL]

 

So I still have my spec B. My XT will never ever match in terms of handling, performance and overall 'fun to drive'-ness. But the XT makes up for it elsewhere- at least for me.

 

It's my daily driver, not so much now as I'm working from home. But when I did for the week after buying it- it was smooth. There is a powerband but the cvt kinda flattens it. I wish they had a Si drive option at least but no. Overall decent torque from a stop, picks up well but from a roll it's a bit weird with the cvt. Kinda have to feather it in .. a lot and then it'll take off.

 

The interior is nice ( coming from a A4) for a modern car. Subaru usually skimps out but not with the Touring. The center console tablet is alright. There are some things that shouldn't be on the touch screen- like HVAC or seat warmers/ coolers. If the UI was a bit faster maybe they could get away with it but it's not the most responsive after starting the car sometimes. It's like my double din in my spec b so I can live with it but nothing like the Audi's. Overall navigation is alright but I really just bluetooth everything.

 

 

Noises- sometimes on the highway I get this really odd noise from the roof of the car, almost like the metal shaking by the wind. The other complaint is some of the interior pieces have to be kindly hit to tighten up as the driver door tends to rattle with the bass. However The sound quality in the car is great imo.

 

 

I don't regret the car at all and I still look back at it when walking away. It's a nice looking car on the outside- however not a fan of the boxy butt and unsporty 'spoiler'. C-lights up front are LED on the Touring (I think premium has it too) and are aggressive looking, which I like.

 

I'll probably hold on to it for a few years and see how the next gen STI appeals to me with the same motor but tuned and matched with a 6speed [emoji6]

 

 

 

Here's my 20XTb6bf8f07f34f043104abbe28f01b7dd1.jpg

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Edited by Zack Spec B
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That was supposed to be the vehicle I was going to drive to the ground, but that annoying rattle in the dash drove me insane. That was the primary reason for my selling it. And to read that random noises are still a thing on gen 7 may not bode well (door panel/speaker, vent director under glove box, noise from the rear).

I came from a 2006 Legacy 2.5 GT 5 speed to my 2020 Legacy Limited XT. I understand what you’re saying about the dash rattles on your car, my wife’s ‘05 Outback XT was the same as well as my ‘06 Legacy. We kinda thought dash rattles were a Subaru feature. But she currently has a 2020 OB and I have the Legacy. They are the quietest cars we’ve ever driven, no rattles, no odd noises whatsoever.

 

Even though this 2020 Legacy is very different from the ‘06 GT 5 speed it has been extremely satisfying in every respect. With the wider tires and 18” wheels versus the 17” of the ‘06 I’ve found the handling to be very, very good. I’m not disappointed in the least. After having the ‘06 turbo I would not have been happy with a non XT Legacy but the XT has satisfied me in every way.

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Recently had new software update added with the stop/start on the home screen. How simple would it have been to make the heated seat icon on the home screen the active app instead of going another menu deep to use. That still bugs me.
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Overall decent torque from a stop, picks up well but from a roll it's a bit weird with the cvt. Kinda have to feather it in .. a lot and then it'll take off.

The accelerator/throttle/pedal lag seems to be common, but I didn't experience it during test drives. I heard or read somewhere that putting the transmission in Manual mode alleviates this. Can you or anyone else comment on this "band-aid" solution? During my test drives while playing with Manual mode, I was actively using the steering wheel shift paddles. I didn't read about the "band-aid" solution till after my test drives. If I engage in Manual mode and I don't touch the shift paddles, will it "upshift" or change the ratio automatically when it hits the redline, or will I be stuck in that redlined ratio? (Or I can go back for a third test drive.)

 

The center console tablet is alright. There are some things that shouldn't be on the touch screen- like HVAC or seat warmers/ coolers.

I agree. I feel like anything touchscreen takes more mental distraction time than a physical button. I didn't want to perform too many common activities while test driving and risk getting into an accident, so all of my infotainment experiences were stationary at the dealer. My biggest gripe here is with Subaru's implementation of the Android Auto. The infotainment forces it to be in a small rectangle space, and leaves empty real estate below it unused. I've read, as well as the saleslady telling me, that Google did not approve Subaru to use portrait mode or expand usage. So I'm forced to use one module/app within that rectangular box, but why can't the music app take the lower void, or place the music meta data into the space above the Android Auto rectangle and the fixed temp/time bar? If Google won't let Subaru display additional module/app in other spaces, then I wonder how Mazda is able to put my Android Auto's secondary app SiriusXM into their extra real estate.ACtC-3cso0rDikE78orY9cUjqrOfOCh33iAD0jgD2MgFEI2YHGXV1nHrL9-W458hNygt7y5S44y9LgH2RREObENSav55NKv9vZMS2TqfXSctzKIwiuzxvb9dJB2vwt5MD60VV4_Hec0AhdyvgRbgBDM1Ncp-Ug=w2560-h1167-no?authuser=0

 

Noises- sometimes on the highway I get this really odd noise from the roof of the car, almost like the metal shaking by the wind. The other complaint is some of the interior pieces have to be kindly hit to tighten up as the driver door tends to rattle with the bass. However The sound quality in the car is great imo.

Nooooo! LOL I hate noises. Maybe I had not gone to enough metal concerts in high school and college to lose my high frequency hearing like most adults, but even with my 2012 TL, which is super quiet, only I can hear a tiny rattling somewhere in the seat belt height adjuster and headliner area. If I push in and hold it while driving, the sound goes away. Stuff like this drives me bonkers. Did you ever get this looked at? I wonder if there are others with similar complaint.

 

I don't regret the car at all and I still look back at it when walking away.

That's awesome! 9 years with my TL, I still love the look. Even while test driving, I felt a sense of loss when I see other 2012+ TLs on the road. I don't want to regret buying gen 7 Legacy. Nice wheels, by the way. =)

 

... I’ve found the handling to be very, very good.

Glad to hear! Do you get the feeling that the steering was not as sharp, or there were some delay between your steering input to the car following? What I thought after my first test drive as too much body roll was later on thinking maybe it is a combination of body roll plus delayed steering feedback that mentally exacerbated the perception of lots of body roll. A third test drive is needed.

 

 

After test driving the Mazda CX-5, I fell in love with how it drives. Not too far off from my 2012 Acura TL and 2008 Spec.B in terms of control, sharp steering, and feeling of well planted and connected to the road. But I still want to give the Legacy some chances before committing, because a) 0% financing, and b) amount of discount Subaru is giving (Mazda won't pair 0.9% financing with MFR to dealer incentives). So I've got some additional questions for y'all gen 7 owners:

 

  1. My research shows that there are CVT issues that Subaru won't admit fault on, yet Subaru extended the warranty on certain year and models with CVT. Here's the kicker: The TR690 in the gen 7 Legacy 2.4 turbo is the same one used in the gen 6 Legacy/Outback 3.6 that was included in the extended warranty. As a newcomer to CVT and reading the TSB and multiple complaints, am I wrong to hesitate and worry about getting this gen 7 Legacy?
  2. Did anyone install a trailer hitch and wiring harness? The Legacy doesn't have the plug-n-play trailer wiring in the rear like the Outback. Just wondering how you routed the wiring to the battery, and if Subaru service department have given you grief over it. And pics of your trailer hitch will be appreciated. (FYI: My use case is to trailer a motorcycle to the track with a lightweight motorcycle trailer.)
  3. I saw a review where the press car with only ~4,000 miles had denim stains on the Nappa leather already. How much TLC does the tan Nappa leather need?
  4. If you have the factory cross-bars, do you know what type of bars is it? Rapid Aero, AeroBlade, or the current WingBar Evo? (Dealers I went to so far don't have one on display for me to inspect.)

 

 

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Edited by StHalcyon
Updated one of my questions.
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  1. If you have the factory cross-bars, do you know what type of bars is it? Rapid Aero, AeroBlade, or the current WingBar Evo? (Dealers I went to so far don't have one on display for me to inspect.)

 

 

I have the factory cross bars, I would recommend against them if you want a windscreen mounted to it. The Subaru cross bars are very similar to the Thule Aeroblade, but they are about 3/4-1" shorter in width. Im sure all the carriers will mount to it fine, but the Thule Airscreen is not compatible. The Rhinorack wind screen will mount to it but it is a metal mount which will ultimately rust. I am purchasing the new Thule Airscreen XT this week, it seems to have a more universal mounting system for all their bars. Doing it over I would just go with aftermarket for compatibility reasons. On a plus note, the car has fixed roof mounts for the rack, so no adapter clamp feet are necessary to mount the cross bars.

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Regarding the missing Speed Volume Control, I just got this picture from a '21 Outback Outdoor (Canadian model with base radio) press vehicle and it has a "3 speed" Speed Volume Control. Curiously, the Harman Kardon radio still doesn't. Subaru Canada doesn't answer my claims.

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Hi StHalcyon

 

I only had my 2020XT since October so I am still in the honeymoon phase, but I will give you my thoughts. I am coming from a 13 Legacy 3.6R, and before that I had an 05 2.5GT "Unlimited" [You should know what means], both with the 5EAT.

 

The XT's suspension is closer to the 2.5GT than to the Spec B. I don't believe the 2.5GT was as stiff as the Spec B. The 2.5GT rolled less than my 13 Legacy. *Disclaimer, I only got to ride in a Spec B once and it was on a smooth road*

 

I find the XT's acceleration to be stronger than my 3.6R and about that same as the 2.5GT. Funny thing is, my wife's Ascent feels even more responsive, so go figure. True there is a slight delay when you stomp the gas pedal, but as with all Subaru Legacy's that I owned, I find it to be faster if you gradually press the pedal to the floor. Also the 05 Legacy autos did not get paddle shifters, they had a + and - buttons on the steering wheel.

 

Regarding the Android Auto, yes, we are still stuck at 1/2 screen while Apple Carplay now has full screen implementation. To make matters worse, I find the text too small for quick glances and I am not sure if that can be adjusted. If you stare too long, hte Driver Monitor will start yelling. I am hpoing a future update will fix this, but I am not sure what is taking Blackberry and Denso so long to fix this. [if you did not know, Blackberry is responsible for the software on the infortainment system.].

 

Regarding the TR690 transmission, it is also used on the my Ascent too, but with the addition of an transmission cooler and a different CVT fluid. Ask me how I know? To my understanding, 2019 Ascents had a bad harness that reported the signals incorrectly to a sensor that suppose to regulate the pressure in the CVT. When it got the wrong signal it would not supply sufficent pressure and that would cause the chain to slip. When that happened, it was time for a new transmission. Again ask me how I know. However, the replacement CVT has been good so far on the Ascent and I confident it is on the Legacy. Also Subaru has extended the warranty on the 2019 Ascents CVT.**

 

**The extended warranty does not apply if you had the tranmission changed!!

 

I have not encountered any issues with the Nappa leather. I was alittle concerned with the color as it is more orange than the brown leather on the Outback and my Ascent, but the Ascent does not have Nappa leather. I have not done anything to the seats yet. Regarding the staining of the seats, I had a friend who use to own a Nissan that got the driver's seat stained by jeans. He later admitted he did not wash his new dyed jeans before wearing so...

 

And lastly I have no experience with a hitch or the crossbars for the Legacy, I use the Ascent for that.

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