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Dual Range Transmission?


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I went up a pretty easy 4wd road this weekend with my Outback XT and was extremely disappointed with its performance. The 4wd road was one of the lowest rated (3) 4wd roads near me. The ground clearance is great as I never hit bottom, but I kept stalling in 1st gear when trying to crawl up rocky inclines. Everytime I stalled, I had to back down and then gun it hoping that nothing nasty was on the other side of the incline. Being at 10,000 ft+ altitude might have had something to do with it, but the simple fact is that without a 4wd Lo, the U.S. version of the Outback is not geared for even the easiest 4wd roads in the mountains. It appears that a dual range transmission is standard in Australia and New Zealand on the manual transmission Outbacks! Does anyone know whether that is something that could be retrofitted to U.S. models fairly easily? Can any of you international owners comment on how it is engaged (lever or push button?). It really is unfortunate that Subaru doesn't provide a dual range transmission here in the U.S. Looks like my next car will have to be a real SUV with a 4wd Lo (GC, 4runner, etc.) if I want to go up even the easiest 4wd roads in this area.
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It's something that the vast majority of people in the US would never utilize. An automatic with the slushy torque converter setup would probably actually be better for what you're doing since the engine isn't direct mechanically coupled. The TC will let the engine build some revs and a little power before moving, and you can inch along quite easily.
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Guest *Jedimaster*
Or, learn how to drive stick. [img]http://illfindsomethingtoputhere.com/funforum/images/smilies/kekekegay.gif[/img]
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When you're trying to inch up a 4x4 trail, idle in 1st gear in a manual w/o a low range can often be way too quick. And if you need some power, it isn't there. You'll burn up the clutch in a hurry too if you're trying to slip your way up something.
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[quote name='SteVTEC']When you're trying to inch up a 4x4 trail, idle in 1st gear in a manual w/o a low range can often be way too quick. And if you need some power, it isn't there. You'll burn up the clutch in a hurry too if you're trying to slip your way up something.[/quote] Yeah, there definitely wasn't any power available at those low speeds, especially at altitude. The terrain wasn't so difficult that idle in 1st gear was too fast, in fact it was either just about right or too slow. The problem was that it wouldn't hold idle (or even anything less than 3000rpm) once I got up around ~10,000ft, it would start stalling at anything less than half throttle. Once I hit ~11,000+ ft in elevation it would still stall at full throttle on moderate inclines unless I had flat run up on which to gain excessive speed.
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Guest *Jedimaster*
Dear Subaru- recently I was unable to keep my Outback from stalling recently while 4 wheeling at 10,000 feet. As a result, I burned my clutch. Please replace it under warranty, as this is your fault :lol:
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[quote name='SteVTEC']^^ wow, well that's pretty extreme. Wouldn't even hold idle? hmmmmm....I wonder if there's some engine management issues going on. I also wonder if the 3.0R engine would have fared any better?[/quote] I think it probably would have. I'm guessing the 3.0R has more torque at lower RPM's than the 2.5?
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[quote name='DWColorado']I think it probably would have. I'm guessing the 3.0R has more torque at lower RPM's than the 2.5?[/quote] Probably, at least below 2500 rpm or so - the turbo spools pretty quickly, would need to see dynos though. The 3.0R engine also has a much higher 10.7:1 static compression ratio vs 8.2:1 on the 2.5XT. That only would have helped you at altitude. It sounds like you were doing a lot of climbing all at once. I wonder what would have happened if you reset the ECU? Maybe it wasn't able to keep up with your rate of climb quickly enough and that's why the engine was having so much trouble.
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P.S. Here is a picture of the road on which it was stalling.

 

There were a few rocky sections that make it a 4wd road, but 97% of the road could have been driven with a honda civic. It was stalling on sections that looked no different than the road in the picture, except that those sections were uphill instead of flat and like the picture were at 10,000ft to 11,000ft.

 

I have no doubt that it would have gotten up the same inclines at 1,000ft above sea-level with no problem, but since I live at 9,600ft, I don't have any way of trying out that theory without a very long drive.

1977863395_Picture123resized.jpg.18fb383afd649a197c5bd306bdd5ecbc.jpg

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[quote name='SteVTEC']It sounds like you were doing a lot of climbing all at once. I wonder what would have happened if you reset the ECU? Maybe it wasn't able to keep up with your rate of climb quickly enough and that's why the engine was having so much trouble.[/quote] Yeah definitely a quick gain in altitude (probably 9,000ft to 11,000ft+ ... perhaps even 12,000ft at the top?). The ECU not adapting quick enough is an interesting theory. When I get some free time, I might try driving up to the top of Loveland Pass (almost 12,000ft at the summit). It's paved the entire way, so I could probably go from 9,000ft to 12,000ft in about 20 minutes and see if it stalls up there as well on a paved road.
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Guest *Jedimaster*
[quote name='Drift Monkey']Just run some nitrous to make up for the lost oxygen.[/quote] D00d- that would be sick! Defintiely would have to get a button with a cover like in those cool 2fast 2furious movies!11
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  • 5 weeks later...
The dual range manual would definitely do better on that roads. The second range is driveable up to appr. 80 km/h and can be changed during driving. It offers more power in the gears and a start from stand can be done in 2nd gear with ease! It also helps for better control because throttle changes will not translate into speed that quick as in "normal" range. My former Legacy was a 2.5 Wagon with that dual range transmission. Tested it only a few times, never really needed it. But I didn't drive on such roads nor that altitude. It is very odd that SOA don't offers the dual range. In Europe all Wagons with MT are dual range, Legacy, Outback, Forester, even Impreza. On the other side, the automatic would also be better for those things. Isn't the 2.5 Turbo expected to do better in high altitudes???
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[quote name='Flo4Legacy']Isn't the 2.5 Turbo expected to do better in high altitudes???[/quote] The turbo helps a lot at 3000rpm’s and higher. However, the parts of the road where it was stalling required slow driving at around 2000rpm's. I've been on some similar roads that were at a lower altitude since then and had no problems with the car stalling. In looking at a topo map, I realize the stalling was all happening at 12,000ft+ altitude, so I'm guessing altitude is the problem. However, being able to run higher rpms at a slow speed with a dual-range transmission at that altitude would have definitely helped (are you listening SOA … at least make a dual range transmission an option in the U.S.). On the manual transmission wagons in Europe (or elsewhere), is the dual range transmission a switch on the dash or a lever near the gear shifter? Soft of curious if a dual range transmission is something that could be retrofitted if I decide to start doing mods.
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You really should get an auto trans Outback for any serious offroading. Actually, autos are better than manuals for offroading in almost any vehicle. I have taken my auto trans Outbacks (02 LL Bean and 05 XT) up some pretty steep roads and the torque converter allows me to crawl up at a very nice pace. No way I could have done it with a manual transmission without slipping the clutch a lot. My 00 Outback was a manual, and it was a real pain to drive offroad. Dual range would help, but you're generally better off with auto trans for finesse situations. Craig
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[quote name='DWColorado'][ On the manual transmission wagons in Europe (or elsewhere), is the dual range transmission a switch on the dash or a lever near the gear shifter? Soft of curious if a dual range transmission is something that could be retrofitted if I decide to start doing mods.[/quote] It is a lever and I think the dual range thing is built into the transmission. Maybe a swap is possible with importing the whole transmission from Europe. You have the 2.5 N/A, right? Then it might be possible. On the other side, as already mentioned: the automatic should do very good for offroading so a trade of your current Outback for a automatic version should be way cheaper (than swapping the transmission). Or you just avoid driving in altitudes of 12.000 feet :D
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