05 LGT Wagon Engine overhaul (noob experience)

Hello all,

I am starting this thread to post about my overhaulin experience. I am failry mechanically inclined but have never removed engines. This is my first one. They are always special :lol:

I think there are enough build threads to be needing another one. I am just going to share highlights and things that a new person might have questions about. This may be helpful to first timers like this forum has been to me.

BACKGROUND:

Long story short, the wagon has been kindda limping the past few months. A idle misfire and roughness. I seeked help about it on this forum and checked a million things on the list before deciding to pull the EJ25.

one of the things on the list was a leakdown test. Subaru Shop did a leak down test and declared it to be ringland. Disappointed with the expense, I sat on it a couple weeks while i recovered from sticker shock of repair (4000 including labour for a new SB) :) The car is an 05 and as good as it is, its a daily driver with a 5 EAT that I have no intention to tune or track. Just a fun daily driver. The car's worth 5 to 6k in good condition so 4k on repairs was a tough decision.

Anyways, after the mental convincing and comparing to other options (sell trade in), I decided to repair and here we are. For my own sanity I repeated the leakdown test and also consulted two other subaru expert in area. Our discussions yielded that symptoms sounded more like a burnt valve. I have roughness at idle and low RPMs but nothing above 2000 RPM.

My leakdown tests (all 15 of it, u can tell I am really trying to be sure ) I heard air passing through exhaust and not through the oil filler. All tests on warm (not hot) engine with 100 psi air.

I confirmed the TDC with a screwdriver method and to make sure I wasnt testing on exhaust stroke, I tested on consecutive TDC's of the 4 stroke cycles meaning compression--exhaust--compression--exhaust...compression--exhaust. Each time I heard the air leaking out of the exhaust which gave me confidence to pull the engine.

Album for pictures

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hvt2YexWZc49iBiQA

History on the engine. We bought the car 4 years (30k miles) ago. The guy worked at a subaru shop and did the buying and selling on side. This car had a blown turbo and he fixed it before selling to me. NEW OEM pistons and crankshaft. same case halves for the short block. He reused the oil pump because he claimed it was clean but put in a new oil cooler and of course a new turbo. Head refinished etc.

Being an engineer I am a sucker for data, before I pulled the engine, I checked,

1. Fuel Pressure (within service manula recommnedations in both vacuum on and off case)
   
2. Vacuum pressure (OK per manual numbers)
   
3. Oil pressure (Passed per Manual but was marginal at idle, 5000 RPM was OK). Will replace the oil pump
   

This brings us to Engine Removal. I had removed 50 % of things before (:spin:) so not a biggie on that. The only key thing worth pointing out,

1. Radiator Fan Assembly comes out with Radiator. Do it that way
   
2. Both PS pump and AC compressor can stay on respective wheel wells. Take care that you are not pinching the hoses or causing undue stress on connectors
   
3. BAG & TAG. This is been talked about several threads. It is worth it for noobs like us getting into virgin territory.
   
4. I also labeled hoses and electrical connectors just for my sanity. I hope I dont do this enough to remember these connections.
   
5. Remove the TGVs and Intake as one unit. Lots of electrical connectors to undo
   
6. Pretty obvious, but if you cant get to a hose at the source (due to it being unde the manifold) just get it downstream. for ex. one of coolant hoses for throttle body.
   

MY OBSERVATIONS...

1. Some oil on outside of intake tube to turbo. INSIDE was clean.
   
2. Turbo compressor is relatively clean but I see some oil and I am thinking that its sucking oil. Just dont know what i expected to be seen
   
3. Oil on OUTSIDE of the turbo oil outlet. May be the pipe needs a new seal. Havent removed turbo yet.
   
4. NO oil in intercooler
   
5. I see some sludge on inside of TGVs. See image.
   

MY QUESTIONs,

• Can this oil inside TGV from the oil outlet hose on turbo? I think so but checking with brilliant minds here.
  
• Is this amount of oil normal in TGVs ?
  

Thanks for reading and help.

UPDATE 1

The Engine is out. Pictures link in post # 1 are updated

Tip to Noobs..Pay attention to the engine mount nuts. I misread the picture in FSM and took out the forward engine mount bolts only. You must remove the center nuts to separate mounts from cross member.

I think impatience (working on this project slowly for few days) got better of me in removing them. The stupid thing is that I started removing the right nuts and stopped half way saying this is the WRONG thing, oh well.

Engine separated from the tranny but woundlt slide forward. By the time we realized what happened we had applied enough force to break the tabs on the mounts. Oh well !!

New mounts are 50 bucks from rockauto or same for used junkyard mounts.

UPDATE 2,

I confirmed multiple times that the leak is from exhaust. See videos in the OP. This was a relief since the Short block seems to be OK, no leaks from OIL cap. I did the exhaust stroke leak check and the compression leak check (piston at TDC on both); both yielded air from up pipe. Can feel and hear it.

Triple checked it. Confirming TDC on compression stroke by looking for intake stroke first, then sticking screwdriver through spark plug hole to find TDC.

TIP:

Mark the crank pulley for TDC to help remember, then every time the mark is at top (or where ever you choose) the piston is at TDC.

With this method, it will alternate between COMPRESSION,EXHAUST, COMPRESSION....EXHAUST etc. You can count and keep track.

Also can confirm from intake valves opening that the next TDC is compression.

Hope this helps some one

EDIT: Total cost for Project $ 1728

LONGBLOCK is at the engine shop. Amazing what you can fit in a hatchback :D

I will keep posted. Current plan is to tear down, inspect, rebuild heads(clean, machine seats, replace seals and bad valves, lash) and reassemble.

Part of my diagnostics was replacing the timing kit, so that will be re-used.

Following parts have been ordered,

-Bunch of cooling hoses & the gasket kit & half moons, PCV hose assembly.

-My car has the "stutter after fill up" issue, might as well fix that while manifold is out. Replacing purge valve and purge solenoid valve.

-My car was missing some important components, mostly from when it was rebuilt by the guy who sold it to me, god bless him ! (compressor to TMIC gasket, TMIC bracket, Downpipe hangar bolt, ONE tranny to engine bolt assy)

Below the order from Heuberger Subaru. Best prices IMO.

21885AA260-184582-170424 ITEM 5 - 2005 Legacy GT Stay bracket

1

45668AA000-184582-314716 ITEM 4 - 2005 Legacy GT Intercooler cushion

1

45659AA000-184582-314586 ITEM 3 - 2005 Legacy GT Intercooler spacer

1

24234AA320-184582-183105 ITEM 7 - 2005 Legacy GT Stay bracket clip

1

807515712 Subaru Part Number 807515712 | Hose

1

805922090 Subaru Part Number 805922090 | Hose

1

805922080 Subaru Part Number 805922080 | Hose

1

11815AB790 Subaru Part Number 11815AB790 | Hose Ay Pcv

1

42084FE010 Subaru Part Number 42084FE010 | Valve Purge

1

16102AA340 Subaru Part Number 16102AA340 | Valve Ay Duty Solenoid

1

99071AC010 Subaru Part Number 99071AC010 | Hose Vacuum

1

99071AC240 Subaru Part Number 99071AC240 | Hose Vacuum

1

99071AC220 Subaru Part Number 99071AC220 | Hose Vacuum

1

807611090 Subaru Part Number 807611090 | Hose

2

09551B050 Subaru Part Number 09551B050 | Water Hose

1

99071AC020 Subaru Part Number 99071AC020 | Hose Vacuum

1

99071AC230 Subaru Part Number 99071AC230 | Hose Vacuum

1

807611031 Subaru Part Number 807611031 | Pt650297 Hose

3

800510100 Subaru Part Number 800510100 | Bolt & Washer Ay

1

10105AA720 Subaru Part Number 10105AA720 | Gskt And Seal Kit Engine

1

11051AA070 Subaru Part Number 11051AA070 | Plug Cylinder Head

4

Rockauto & Amazon

Westar engine mounts total 50 bucks. Remember I broke these

Rockauto

Turbo oil drain 5 bucks and turbo gasket kit 26 bucks. My turbo oil drain was leaking and causing the compressor to suck in the oil. Not a huge amount but enough to coat the TGVs. see images.

silicone hoses from siliconehose.com

Misc 3 to 6 mm hoses for intake manifold re-do. current hoses are hard and brittle.

I think I will have $700 in parts alone !! these OEM hoses are not cheap.

I DID NOT REPLACE ALL VALVES UT IF YOU DO, LINKS ARE BELOW. THANKS StkmltS

Exhaust valves

GSC Power-Division

SS exhaust valves

32mm, set of 8

p/n: 2011-8

RallySportDirect

$114.58

https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...st-valves-32mm

Intake valves

GSC Power-Division

SS intake valves

36mm, set of 8

p/n: 2012-8

RallySportDirect

$115.60

https://www.rallysportdirect.com/sho...ke-valves-36mm

Got the call I was waiting for..the prognosis is in..cracked exhaust valve on #2

Very happy that I dug deep on this one and did not just buy the shortblock anticipating Ringland after the original prognosis.

Image added to the shared google album.

Now the fun part of putting things back together begins,

1. Remove broken mounts from cross member....DONE
   
2. Clean intake manifold and TGVs...DONE
   
3. Replace intake manifold to TGV gaskets & fuel rail to TGV gaskets....DONE
   
4. Replace misc vaccum hoses in "rat's nest" area. Fuel lines were OK. Just tightened the screws on clamps.
   
5. Cleaned injectors will be coming back from witch hunter performance this week, need to make sure the rails are free of debri etc from disassembly...DONE
   
6. Replace throttle body gasket...DONE
   
7. Replace all vacuum hoses under manifold and put clamps on...DONE
   
8. Replace turbo oil return line...DONE
   
9. Replace turbo Coolant Line....DONE
   
10. Replace main crank breather and other small coolant hoses under manifold...DONE
    
11. Put a hangar for the mid pipe, so the downpipe/midpipe dont just hang by Turbo....DONE
    
12. Fixed the stutter after gas fill up by replacing the purge valve and the solenoid under manifold. Now no issues.
    

The injectors werent failing any flow tests per witch hunters testing. The # 2 injector was lowest for flow rate but not very low. They are clean now. Pictures added.

FINAL UPDATE: Car is finished and purrs like a kitten !

Useful links if you have an 05 GT

I ordered correct PCV part but for some reason my car had later year intake (perhaps from the guy before who did a rebuild cause the turbo went.) These links helped with figuring out whats what.

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/pcv-part-mystery-238183.html?t=238183&highlight=PCV+valve

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/pcv-valve-replacement-95003p17.html

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-inlet-2005-200486.html?t=200486

Stuff to reference for vacuum lines under manifold

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/help-re-installing-stock-boost-solenoid-152690.html

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2614458

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190530

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2005-2006-lgt-colored-vacuum-routing-diagram-143225.html

TIPS

1. Put the turbo on before the intake manifold
   
2. Cover absolutely all inlets just in case you drop nuts or washers on the engine. If they make it into the engine, you are looking for trouble.
   
3. DO NOT conect the breather hoses on Heads until after the manifold is on the long block
   
4. Connect the Turbo oil drain pipe on turbo side before connecting the block side. Clamps are a bitch to get on either way
   
5. Connect the PCV assembly after intake manifold is on the long block
   
6. Be careful with turbo oil feed. It can be moved out of way if needed but DONT kink it.
   
7. Line up the holes (ball park) on torque converter and the transfer plate on crannk before putting the engine and tranny together
   
8. Leave the intake manifold loose until all hose connections (especially, the turbo inlet to turbo) connections are made
   
9. The torque converter to flex plate bolts are best mounted with intake off. If you have the intake on, it's a bitch. See images to look at what I did to get that done. Magnetic nut setters were handy in this process.
   

Sorry to hear but like someone here said, we all share similar fates with these engines.

I am bagging and tagging as well but just writing on the bag with permanent marker.

Surprised I missed this thread over the past few day's.

Lot's of info here in the sticky's about doing this job as well as my "click here" link in my sig.

Surprised I missed this thread over the past few day's.

 

Lot's of info here in the sticky's about doing this job as well as my "click here" link in my sig.

Yup, Forum threads is how I determined my best bet was to have some one else (expert) work on the longblock while I do the grunt work and save $$ that way.

Would like to keep this car atleast till 200k. We shall see if it throws tantrums down the road.

Any comments on oil in TGVs ?

Also, what do you suggest we check on the SB assembly while its out ?

Make sure your PCV is clean, if it rattle when you shake it, its ok. I'm still using the one that came in the car. A coughed PCV will put oil where you don't want it.

I replaced the heater hoses while the engine was out. Just look around and if you suspect it will fail, replace it. Also the oil return hose from the turbo, remove both banjo filters.

Make sure you oil cooler is clean.

Make sure the machine shop rebuilds the heads.

Use ARP head studs.

When you first start the new engine, run it at 1500rpm for 15 minutes, shut it off, change the oil and filter.

My engine started like it dose everyday. I made sure I had primed the fuel pump a couple times before starting, I think I may have turn the key to on for 10 seconds before going to start. I was very happy when it started like it dose everyday. 3 cranks and at idle.

Make sure your PCV is clean, if it rattle when you shake it, its ok. I'm still using the one that came in the car. A coughed PCV will put oil where you don't want it.

 

I replaced the heater hoses while the engine was out. Just look around and if you suspect it will fail, replace it. Also the oil return hose from the turbo, remove both banjo filters.

 

Make sure you oil cooler is clean.

 

Make sure the machine shop rebuilds the heads.

 

Use ARP head studs.

 

When you first start the new engine, run it at 1500rpm for 15 minutes, shut it off, change the oil and filter.

 

My engine started like it dose everyday. I made sure I had primed the fuel pump a couple times before starting, I think I may have turn the key to on for 10 seconds before going to start. I was very happy when it started like it dose everyday. 3 cranks and at idle.

Thanks. YES on all of what you said. Banjo's were removed already. Updated the OP.

Not sure about ARP since this is just a daily driver. Dont know if I want to spend this kindda money again on this car, if it craps again, assumption being, ARP benefits are that they can be reused.

ARP head studs prevent the head from lifting during boost and causing a headgasket leak.

Also to build on what Max stated when you first start the engine - pull the fuel pump fuse (located in engine bay fuse box) and crank the engine about 10+ seconds to prime the oil galleys. Then go ahead and put the fuel pump fuse back in and prime the fuel pump a few times.

There are 2 philosophies on engine break-in procedures: soft break-in and hard break-in. NASIOC in the Built Motor Discussion sub forum has info on this.

Good luck!

ARP head studs prevent the head from lifting during boost and causing a headgasket leak.

 

Also to build on what Max stated when you first start the engine - pull the fuel pump fuse (located in engine bay fuse box) and crank the engine about 10+ seconds to prime the oil galleys. Then go ahead and put the fuel pump fuse back in and prime the fuel pump a few times.

 

There are 2 philosophies on engine break-in procedures: soft break-in and hard break-in. NASIOC in the Built Motor Discussion sub forum has info on this.

 

Good luck!

Thanks for the comment. Is the head lift event occuring for regular stock boost levels ?

I am going to discuss this with the builder as well and just go with his judgment. Its a 100 bucks more but whatever !:cool:

Seems like the GT"s don't have the same number of HG issues as the 2.5i's do. That said, I still highly recommend ARP head studs. You should also get the car off the factory tune asap. It has been known to cause burnt valves and other issues.

My ej257 has over 106,000 trouble free miles (21psi on the dyno), the engine is quiet and runs like great.

I am not sold on ARP studs at all, not needed when you're below 350-400whp.

The studs torque being different (higher AFAIK) than stock bolts means they deform the cylinder bores more. I do not know how much of difference it makes in practice, but engine builders who pay attention to details use torque plates with the studs when honing/boring the cylinder so to simulate conditions the block will be in when heads get torqued down.

If not going with ARP , how about newer black Subaru head bolts :

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/psa-subaru-changed-headbolts-improved-2010-onwards-271129.html

Seems like the GT"s don't have the same number of HG issues as the 2.5i's do. That said, I still highly recommend ARP head studs. You should also get the car off the factory tune asap. It has been known to cause burnt valves and other issues.

 

My ej257 has over 106,000 trouble free miles (21psi on the dyno), the engine is quiet and runs like great.

My understanding on GTs and head gaskets is similar to yours. Plus, I am pretty sure that the guy I bought the car from reused the old head bolts. Thats a guess based on things I am finding he half ass'd with the car. The car hasnt had HG issues in 4 years, 30k miles on those used bolts. Hence, I am OK just using NEW OEM bolts, not studs.

We will find out soon enough. The builder hasnt begun teardown yet.. Hopefully today or tomorrow I hear back from them.

We will also find out if the valves are burnt or just not closing all the way due to tight clearance (which causes them to burn)

I am not sold on ARP studs at all, not needed when you're below 350-400whp.

 

The studs torque being different (higher AFAIK) than stock bolts means they deform the cylinder bores more. I do not know how much of difference it makes in practice, but engine builders who pay attention to details use torque plates with the studs when honing/boring the cylinder so to simulate conditions the block will be in when heads get torqued down.

I agree. The dilemma I am in is "whether or not I should agree with the builder who is assembling my long block" In the end, I want them to stand by the work they did, if studs is what they are comfortable with, I guess that will have to be it. Need to talk with them once they tear it down.

If I was doing this myself, I would use bolts, hands down. On stock power levels, and on an old car that I do not intend to modify, studs do not make sense to me. THE HG issues were more on NA cars and bad installation procedures, moreover, they are issues with the gasket material on the NA cars

If not going with ARP , how about newer black Subaru head bolts :

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/psa-subaru-changed-headbolts-improved-2010-onwards-271129.html

That is great to know.

"The purpose of this bulletin is to inform technicians that a surface treatment of the cylinder head bolts has changed for production purpose along with installation procedures.The new style bolts were introduced into production on December 4, 2009. The bolts are interchangeable and can be mixed, however the new procedure must be followed regardless"

May be no real benefit for end user, just a production process improvement ?

Great info in here for sure

Glad you found it useful. The community here is great resource.

"

 

May be no real benefit for end user, just a production process improvement ?

The torque spec has been increased for these bolts. They are also now black. They seem better in that regard (for the end user).

UPDATE: The car is doing well. 24xx miles since the rebuild. Fuel efficiency feels like better. Summer time is when I have some old data on MPGs. Plan to compare once we go through the summer. Time will tell.

Car is able to keep all its fluids inside One minor leak by camshaft sensor. Stopped after i tightened the bolt some.

UPDATE: The car is doing well. 24xx miles since the rebuild. Fuel efficiency feels like better. Summer time is when I have some old data on MPGs. Plan to compare once we go through the summer. Time will tell.

 

Car is able to keep all its fluids inside One minor leak by camshaft sensor. Stopped after i tightened the bolt some.

I thought you meant 24,000 for a second lol. That’s good man, glad you got it finished and back On the road. Keep us updated as the mileage climbs