RckyMtnGT Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 So...I've got some questions about my Killer B header and subframe fitment, hoping someone out there has some experience with this. I've received most of the hard parts for my build, among them a Killer B header, DIY kit. I'm going to have it fabbed up to my EFR 6758. Last weekend was my first test fit/mock up. The header fit great to the block - it really is a gorgeous piece of work. My concern is the angle of the header-to-uppipe flange to the subframe. Has anyone encountered interference problems with a Killer B header on a Legacy? I've attached pics below that try to illustrate what I'm talking about. Its difficult to get a picture of the angles without your head being there, but I think they get the point across. The header to uppipe flange points at a wierd angle to the subframe. I'm not even sure how a non-DIY kit/stock replacement kit would fit in there. Just today, I got a hold of Chris(I think?) at Killer B. I sent them these pics, and it turns out I'm the first Legacy guy to call with fitment issues. During the conversation, he went back to his mock-up/test jig and checked the subframe they use, and as near as he could tell, it was different to the subframe on my car. In all my reading and research, I have yet to run across anyone talking about subframe differences. We discussed a few possibilities, but were both kind of left scratching our heads. The box arrived with no obvious external damage, the header was packed well and had no signs of physical abuse. I'm also not inclined to think Killer B made a wonky header - they've been using the same jigs for a while, and if one were made this far off, I believe someone would have caught it. Cant rule it out, but I dont think so. Kudos to Killer B, they offered to split shipping if I wanted to send it back for them to check out. I might still consider this option, but I dont know that it will change the situation any. ALL THAT SAID...I've still got to have this thing fabbed up. I think the easiest option is going to be to have my fab guy just chop the flange off and reweld it at a more suitable angle. I'm really just hoping to hear from anyone with experiences or thoughts on this weird fitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Wonky header... unless you suppose Subaru made a wonky car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX USA Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I have an OBXT with a Holy Header and had no fitment issues, but I haven’t removed the OEM subframe spacers. I actually have a non-EWG HH setup that I need to sell because I’m switching to EWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtea Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I dont understand how the subframe can be different here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RckyMtnGT Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 Wonky header... unless you suppose Subaru made a wonky car? No, I dont suppose Subaru made a wonky car. But the fact that it 'looks' different to the one Killer B uses did prompt this post. Just trying to make sure I'm on the right track. Eyeballing subframes on Ebay, I can't discern any difference between a Legacy or wrx/sti frame. But again, thats why I'm asking. I'll see what shipping a box all the way to VA will cost. Might still be easier to just hack it off and redo it. A bit bummed, but so it goes... Thanks for the responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 It’s way easier for the company to send you a non messed up header. Especially for what they charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Maybe someone was drunk at work... no no, that never happens I think they should pay your return shipping, and send you a replacement with no shipping charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 It looks to me that they messed up the angles on the entry to the subframe. I found this image on NASIOC that's pretty similar and it seems that you have a tighter angle on the last bend and possibly before it. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2313333&page=2 For that kind of money, I would ask them to cover shipping this one back and shipping you a new one. If they want better verification that it doesn't fit, have them take a straight edge across the face of the v-band connection to where it would touch the collectors and send you a picture of it. Then compare doing the same on yours. That should tell you where your end is in relation to a known good one. If the bends, length, etc is off, the straight edge will touch the collectors in a different location. Maybe someone else on this forum has a similar header off right now and can do the same. (Hope that made sense) You could also measure the shortest distance from the edge of the v-band end to the closest collector, that would also help indicate if it was off. I know they have faith they are producing consistent products, but jigs can be out of alignment or humans can bump into things. Either way, they should take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtea Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Killer b acts like their shit don’t stink, and it’s utterly rediculous that their first assertion is that a global production vehicle has random sub frame inconsistencies. As an aside I have never seen killer b beat other leading el headers in terms of performance when comparing any dyno sheets online. I solely believe they have a decent product but it’s mostly hype that gained organic traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I agree he should measure current one. Pay for return and get the new one and measure again. I don't want to be a bad guy, but I bet they will tell you it waa the subframe fault and they found no issues "but here, try this one." And the new one will be different dimensions and work fine. Then call them out when they pull the BS lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RckyMtnGT Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 It looks to me that they messed up the angles on the entry to the subframe. I found this image on NASIOC that's pretty similar and it seems that you have a tighter angle on the last bend and possibly before it. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2313333&page=2 [ATTACH]262680[/ATTACH] For that kind of money, I would ask them to cover shipping this one back and shipping you a new one. If they want better verification that it doesn't fit, have them take a straight edge across the face of the v-band connection to where it would touch the collectors and send you a picture of it. Then compare doing the same on yours. That should tell you where your end is in relation to a known good one. If the bends, length, etc is off, the straight edge will touch the collectors in a different location. Maybe someone else on this forum has a similar header off right now and can do the same. (Hope that made sense) You could also measure the shortest distance from the edge of the v-band end to the closest collector, that would also help indicate if it was off. I know they have faith they are producing consistent products, but jigs can be out of alignment or humans can bump into things. Either way, they should take care of you. Thanks for the link and pic, I've been comparing others as well. Some look different, some look ok compared to mine. The more I look tho, something isn't right (obviously.) Your suggestion does make sense, angles and whatnot. It keeps looking like the inner and outer radii are longer, as well. Killer b acts like their shit don’t stink, and it’s utterly rediculous that their first assertion is that a global production vehicle has random sub frame inconsistencies. As an aside I have never seen killer b beat other leading el headers in terms of performance when comparing any dyno sheets online. I solely believe they have a decent product but it’s mostly hype that gained organic traction. Nah, they never implied the subframe was 'made wrong,' they said the 6cylinder model ob/legacy have a different subframe under there. We were spitballing ideas. They never tried to claim they were perfect, and the guy I spoke to was very conciliatory - they'll make it right. As far as performance, maybe they're not 'magical', but of the several shops I've spoken with, all had great things to say about it, whether I was buying something from them or not. The combination of performance and durability is a win in my book (my issue notwithstanding, of course.) If we can get things sorted, and I believe they will be, then I'll be happy and content with my purchase. I got the header off the car and boxed up, I'll send it out this week. I'll report back once there's some answers. ----Also, I still want to see some engine bay pics of your set up, Xtea. I know you said its just a mess of stuff on your dyno thread, but I'd still be interested to see, especially your turbo-intercooler set up. I'm going to have to get creative with mounting and hoses to get the two connected. Mine isn't rotated, so more custom stuff, but the more solutions I can see, the better :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtea Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Fine Ill do a build thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX USA Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Fine Ill do a build thread.... With pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtea Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5765427&postcount=9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RckyMtnGT Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Update... Sent the header back to KillerB, and apparently no one in receiving was informed of what the problem was. They reground the block surfaces, and shipped it back out. Hadn't heard an update in a while, and called them, they said it was shipped out a few days ago. Oh, ok, well, what was the problem? "Wait, what was the problem?" Oh geez... They recalled the box back while still in shipping, and finally got my header put on to their work jig. And nothing was wrong, apparently. Fit perfect, nothing was out of place, or bent, or made incorrectly, according to their jig. Great? Shipped the box back to me, I didn't open the box for a few weeks due to busy work schedule, couldn't work on the car anyways. I finally open it a couple weeks ago, and turns out they forgot to ship my uppipe and flange and clamp back. Ugh...Called them up, and got those pieces on their way. So, yeah, a big exercise in futility. Minor plus, I installed new Group N motor mounts, and they did raise the motor some. My stock weren't broken, but had definitely sagged over 130k miles. This did put the uppipe flange in a more desirable spot, but the angles still do not look right. At this point, the car is ready for fab, so I'm just gonna leave it in the hands of the shop. If they want to change that flange, then so be it. If not, cool. Once the header is connected to the turbo, I'll be ready to rip the old block out and start 'final' assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 TIL our motor mounts can sag, I see vertical motor mounts sagging on my Nissan, but ours seemed a bit different in design. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RckyMtnGT Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 TIL our motor mounts can sag, I see vertical motor mounts sagging on my Nissan, but ours seemed a bit different in design. Had definitely compressed some over the years. Something like a half inch, roughly, slightly less. At least compared to brand new Group N mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Dang, now you got me to order new engine mounts. I need to stop reading all these posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RckyMtnGT Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Dang, now you got me to order new engine mounts. I need to stop reading all these posts. Lol, new mounts are no bad thing! If you don't have a trans mount yet, get the Group N, that single mount (even with stock engine mounts) made a big difference in shift quality for me. Tons of movement in that mount, its all kinds of floppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Lol, new mounts are no bad thing! If you don't have a trans mount yet, get the Group N, that single mount (even with stock engine mounts) made a big difference in shift quality for me. Tons of movement in that mount, its all kinds of floppy. I have the tranny mount + all the bushings, inserts, etc. I've been putting other things in front of engine mounts, but I'm 182k miles and I think they are overdue now. Hopefully you are done with having to deal with KillerB "service" and you can get it all together, it's tough being patient with people who can't seem to just do their job well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RckyMtnGT Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 I have the tranny mount + all the bushings, inserts, etc. I've been putting other things in front of engine mounts, but I'm 182k miles and I think they are overdue now. Hopefully you are done with having to deal with KillerB "service" and you can get it all together, it's tough being patient with people who can't seem to just do their job well... Thanks, it was...frustrating. Still feels like a series of unfortunate events. Sometimes stuff just doesn't go right, I get that. But geez...Time to move forward, tho! Side note, I found the metal plates on the Group N mounts slightly thinner than the stock plates. I added a washer to the bolts to take up the difference. The holes in the block are deep enough, but they're not threaded all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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