Tr00b Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69_GiQwn4V0]More EJ22 rod knock? - YouTube[/ame] Ok, piston slap goes away when the car is warm right? The car is at normal operating temperature. I was jumping a car earlier today and it was doing this and the person I helped made the comment "Sounds like you have bigger problems than I do." So the car is hot and its making this noise. Its intermittent. When I am driving sometimes I can hear it hammering away and other times, its totally quiet. I can open the hood sometimes and it sounds like a new motor. Other times, it sounds awful like this. So would you just keep driving it? At what point is it just going to come apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 hard to say from the video, but it could be lifter noise. I have lifter noise with my 93, it happens mostly on a cold engine, and happens every so often, not all the time. I just ignore it. As a matter of fact, it hasent happened in a few weeks...... anyways. What weight oil u running? mileage on engine? can u hear if its from one side or the other of the engine? center of engine? if it is lifters, Id pull valve covers and inspect which one(s) it is, but im an ASE certified tech, this is second nature to me. If its a rod knocking.... thats a whole other story.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 I am running Rotella 10w-30. My car burns a quart every 1000 miles. I have about 1500 miles on this oil change. 150k on the engine. 180 compression in all cyls except #4 cyl (the one under the knock sensor) which has 170. Knock seems to originate from the middle of the block on that cyl, confirmed both my mechanics stethoscope and by ear. This just doesn't seem like piston slap to me. The heads are new-ish or rebuilt, I believe the PO had an idler go bad on the timing belt and had to replace them. I don't think the problem is the lifters. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvdjiJX14GU]Subaru EJ22 Rod Knock - YouTube[/ame] It did this (see vid above) on the maiden voyage right after I did the timing belt... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqM260yuZM]subaru ej22 engine knock - YouTube[/ame] This is the closest thing I could find on youtube that was like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 here's the thing about subaru engines, 90+. the cost to split the case and do a proper rebuild from the crank up is more than the cost of swapping in a good used replacement engine. so driving it until the engine ''dies'' is not a problem. although it could be inconvenient when / if it dies. drive it until it dies and then swap in another engine. depending on the cause, it may take a long time. i bought a 97 outback with ''bad wrist pin'' for cheap because i had an ej22 engine waiting to go in and i wanted to take advantage of the ''spare engine''. i drove the ''bad engine'' 40k miles and then sold the car. in my case it was piston slap. on the other hand , you might want to check the valve clearances. i'm pretty sure you can adjust them in the drive way without special tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 mnstrmech, I'll check the valve tolerances, but... How do you truly tell lifter noise from piston slap from rod knock? Johnegg, I have heard and seen that the Subaru engines are costly to rebuild, thats out of the question. However, a used engine is not cheap either. By the looks of Car-part.com the 99ish 2.2 is a very hot item. Closest one is in PA and is over $1000. Usually I have hundreds of local hits for every other vehicle I've had, but not this oddball POS... Yes, you can on the 1999 2.2s they have a nut/adjuster thing not HLAs. What makes you think this could be valvetrain noise? Did your car sound like this when it was piston slapping? Doesn't piston slap go away when the vehicle is warm? What is the proper way to diagnose what this noise is for real? Its driving me nuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Called around on a motor today. Nobody has anything at least for a 1999. Where do you guys come up with motors for these things? It ran very quietly today, as if everything was fine. I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 my 2.5 came from tigerjapan.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 You can get whatever year EJ22 block that you want to put in, if it has to come down to that. Just use the 222 crank gear & you're all set to go. Of course head gaskets, rear main, & oil separator seals will have to be done. The power between the 22E & the 222 is very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiyo1990 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Troob, there are a few Legacy on craigslist that have motors that are still in good condition you may want to check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dufek125 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 troob ive got some local contacts on motors ill seewhat I can find for ya, when I was looking for my 2.5 all I was finding was 22s, there out there if you know where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 the piston slap in my 97OBW never fully went away, but it did get quieter. the ''new style '' tensioner, 98+, can make a knocking noise when they get weak and old. get a $5 mechanic's stethoscope and isolate the noise. read this link about noise: http://remanufactured.com/Engine_Diagnosis_101.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Wish, I just found swap ideas on there, no 2.2's. If I was richer I'd pick up the full 1998 STI front clip and motor, heh... DOHC, thanks for the tip on the block swap idea. Doubt that will be happening but never know. Kiyo, I didn't see anything around Chi town that looked ripe for the plucking. Runners/drivers that are nicer/worth more than my car. Dufek, thats great. Let me know. I haven't joined the Subaru group on FB because my car keeps falling apart, I'd be embarrassed to show up. Johnegg, I was wondering more about what it sounded like versus what I'm dealing with. I swapped to the old style tensioner, and I do have a stethoscope, but I can't get the car to knock again. Originally when I tested it, the noise was about 2-3 times quieter and happened pretty much all the time. Now its intermittent and LOUD. We kind of went through this dog and pony show on my timing belt thread, but it seems worse now... This morning in traffic I thought the poor thing was going to come apart... and I got some stares from pedestrians... but by the time I got to work it went away again. Took the car to a shop today, they could not get it to knock and said they had no idea. Showed them the vid on my phone and they agreed that sounds bad. On the other end of the spectrum: How much can a person make when parting out a car? I have around $3500 sitting in this pile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagtech Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 A serious manifold gasket leak can sound like rod knock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Exhaust or intake? Exhaust is fine one of the first places i checked... but rusted out after the cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I was in your exact predicament in 2011. I changed the block, since full 25Ds weren't very available & I wanted a tough engine. I am satisfied. It doesn't take much to change the engine block. You can get one for about $200-$300 & then have another $400-500 for gaskets & seals & such with a little left. ^ Old 25D w/rod knock @ 164k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Can't you check for knock even by disconnecting your fuel injectors one by one to hear the tone to determine which cylinder its in...subaru 2.2's run surprisingly well on 3 cylinders..I wish I didn't know that, but I had an experience once....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 You can get whatever year EJ22 block that you want to put in, if it has to come down to that. Just use the 222 crank gear & you're all set to go. Of course head gaskets, rear main, & oil separator seals will have to be done. The power between the 22E & the 222 is very little. Me don't speak EJ... So you are saying any long block engine will work, and short block and my current heads will work? If there is a link explaining this that would be cool... I heard from someone else that you can just swap the intake manifold onto any style 2.2 and good to go. What engine do I have, 22E or 222? The junkyard older motor is looking like the best option, there are plenty of those around, just no specific 1999's. http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/subaru/ej20-single-turbo-complete-front-clip-subaru-wrx-sti-98.html# I know this sounds f'ing crazy, but wouldn't that be pretty much bolt in? If you can pay the price aren't these a pretty sure bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Me don't speak EJ... So you are saying any long block engine will work, and short block and my current heads will work? If there is a link explaining this that would be cool... I heard from someone else that you can just swap the intake manifold onto any style 2.2 and good to go. What engine do I have, 22E or 222? The junkyard older motor is looking like the best option, there are plenty of those around, just no specific 1999's. http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/subaru/ej20-single-turbo-complete-front-clip-subaru-wrx-sti-98.html# I know this sounds f'ing crazy, but wouldn't that be pretty much bolt in? If you can pay the price aren't these a pretty sure bet? Your 99 is a 222 (Phase 2) which means that you would have to swap over your heads & crank gear to the 22E block. The 22E longblock is incompatible with the ECU in your car. The shortblock can be swapped over with no issues but if you're going through that trouble, just look for a 222 shortblock & get it if you can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 and sdince the 99 is a phase 2 ej222, i'm pretty sure you can also swap in a ej25 sohc. you would have to use your cam, crank, and intake but that is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 The car started at -10 didn't knock at all ran and idled perfectly fine. Second time I started it after driving around awhile it had some knock once it got warm. This morning again it ran pretty good and quiet. It is a.diagnostic nightmare. There is no rhyme or reason to it and not knowing.anything.for sure drives me nuts. So... i am still looking for an engine. 2.2 phase twos came in 1999 to 00 imprezas..any others?. if i find a 2.5 sohc can i avoid swapping a ton of parts by swapping the ecu as well? What cars did it come in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 2.5 sohc 00 - 04 in all cars. except: 99 lego , ej22 99 - 00 impreza, ej22 01 - 04 outbacks, LLBean and VDC w/ H6 and the stuff you have to swap is very minor compared to pulling the engine. and never swap the ECU unless you swap the harness. it may work just fine w/o the harness swap but it may not. for the 4 cylinder engines the ECU / harness match is more important than the ECU / engine match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 The car started at -10 didn't knock at all ran and idled perfectly fine. Second time I started it after driving around awhile it had some knock once it got warm. This morning again it ran pretty good and quiet. It is a.diagnostic nightmare. There is no rhyme or reason to it and not knowing.anything.for sure drives me nuts. So... i am still looking for an engine. 2.2 phase twos came in 1999 to 00 imprezas..any others?. if i find a 2.5 sohc can i avoid swapping a ton of parts by swapping the ecu as well? What cars did it come in? For the most part, the 222 & the 251 are completely identical so if they are different in any way, the changes to be made are as follows: Swap crank gears, intake manifolds w/wiring harness, sensors, & cam gears from 222 to 251. Done. That 251 will fire up just as if it were a 222 & the ECU will notice & adjust for the changes made. The likewise is also possible for 251 guys who want to have 222s (I have not heard or seen this yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Thanks very much for the info on the motors. I've been looking for one thats reasonably priced, close enough to pick up. Not having much luck yet, called on a couple but they hadn't unlisted them yet they were sold. What is a good price to pay for a motor? What is a safe bet on miles? The car stumbled and killed while accelerating from a stoplight and stumbled several other times today. Revving the engine, I have what sounds like Vtec/rattling that kicks in 1800 to 3500. Its again, not consistent. But I am pretty sure I have main bearing slop. The harder and faster you change throttle position the harder it rattles and the more it tends to stumble, setting off the knock sensor. Its going to make me sound bad, but I really don't want to mess with the motor unless a good deal comes up soon... I'm looking at trading it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Thanks very much for the info on the motors. I've been looking for one thats reasonably priced, close enough to pick up. Not having much luck yet, called on a couple but they hadn't unlisted them yet they were sold. What is a good price to pay for a motor? What is a safe bet on miles? The car stumbled and killed while accelerating from a stoplight and stumbled several other times today. Revving the engine, I have what sounds like Vtec/rattling that kicks in 1800 to 3500. Its again, not consistent. But I am pretty sure I have main bearing slop. The harder and faster you change throttle position the harder it rattles and the more it tends to stumble, setting off the knock sensor. Its going to make me sound bad, but I really don't want to mess with the motor unless a good deal comes up soon... I'm looking at trading it off. At this point, you should stop driving it before you throw a rod. And good engines with low miles range anywhere from $400-$1200. You just have to know where to look & http://www.car-part.com is a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Ok... Quit driving it... Contacted someone on an ej22t block, if it has a good bottom end might be worth the extra work. Otherwise surfing car-part.com thanks for the tip! The rattling though is NOT the same as the knock in the vids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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