STG

Jeez! Give it a rest! If you "hydo-planned" (sic) "real bad", by definition your car had zero traction. How the hell is your Subaru supposed to figure out how to allocate power with all four tires disconnected from the road? You might as well put the car on a chassis lift and ask the same question with all four spinning in the air. :spin::spin:

Some of you guys are one-car accidents waiting to happen: "My car wags its tail on ice only 1/8" thick!" Keep trying to defy the laws of physics. Keep installing stiffer springs, shocks and sway bars. Do not bother to learn how to use your right feet. You really need a reference point. Go to your Ford dealer and test drive an unloaded F250/F350 4X4 in winter conditions. Almost 600 lb./ft. of torque will have the tail dancing on dry, wet, or icy pavement. Half of you would probably ground loop the damn thing in August. I should buy stock in a coffin manufacturer. P.S.: Somebody please tell me, what is the difference between driving on 1/8" ice and and a frozen lake?

:lol::spin:

This is who I got my suspension technical information from. R. W. "Kas" Kastner was a well known production car driver in the late 1950's and class Champion of the California Sports Car Club in 1959 as well as winner of the Championship for the SCCA during that same year. The Championships were won driving a 1958 TR3A Triumph . He was the Chief Instructor for the California Sports Car Club at the Riverside Raceway for several years and also the National Licensing Chairman for the SCCA . Kas was winner of the Sports Car Club of America's annual award for the Best Technical Article (1963). Kas has also participated in sailboat racing for twenty years and was the National Champion in two classes along with many regional and divisional titles. Automotive Experience R.W.'s experience in the automotive industry spans over 50 years. He has particular experience in the field of performance vehicles and automotive racing and racing team management. He designed various automotive performance parts, systems and methods of increasing the performance of standard production cars. Racing R. W. "Kas" Kastner is an acknowledged expert in racing team management with a winning history of National and International racing events. He has wins in various classes and prototype competitions for many well known automotive manufacturers and privately owned racing teams. R.W. was the past owner/manager of independent companies such as Arkay Inc., Kastner-Brophy Inc., Kastner Brophy Racing and Roy Woods Racing. Under the flag of these companies he was the team manager of the Formula 5000, Can Am and Indy car teams. These teams were raced under the Kastner Brophy Racing & Roy Woods Racing names, and sponsored by Carling Black Label Beer, Goodyear, Champion and others. He was also involved with the design, manufacturing and sale of performance components and systems such as; engine high performance parts, suspension parts, turbocharger systems, brakes, and aerodynamic improvement of body parts and design. (Kas used my then new 1983 VW GTI to prototype a few of those parts.) Author R.W. started the USA Triumph Competition Department for the Triumph factory in the early 1960's. He authored the Triumph Preparation manuals distributed by the Triumph factory in the 1960 - 1972 era of production car racing. R.W. is well-known for his pursuit of power increases for the Triumph cars with long experience in engine dynamometer testing. He then authored and published two new books starting in 2003 on Triumph racing and historical information on racing when he was the Triumph Competition Manager for the USA. Kas & The NISSAN YEARS R. W. "Kas" Kastner was the Motorsports National Manager for Nissan of North America from 1986 thru 1990. He then moved on to be Vice President, Operations, of the new Nissan research and development facility Nissan Performance Technology Inc (NPTI) in Vista, California. At this facility Kas and his team of over 225 experts were responsible for the design, development, construction and racing of the Nissan prototype cars predominate in the International Motorsports Association (IMSA) series of road racing events. During this period he lead the team of Nissan Prototype cars to four consecutive Drivers Championships for Geoff Brabham and three consecutive Manufacturers championships for Nissan. The 12 hours of Sebring, 24 hours of Daytona and 24 hours of Le Mans were all on the long schedule of events.

You claimed there is existing law that prohibits oversteer in automobiles and/or oversteering automobiles. All you have provided are references to ESC, which can moderate understeer and/or oversteer. You obviously can't comprehend the difference. You challenge me to provide a citation? I maintain YOUR CLAIM IS NON EXISTENT, therefore no citation is possible. Your references to bumper height and lighting are irrelevant. Your claim that "there are a number of things that DOT and NHTSA do different for imported cars" proves just how limited your knowledge is. All manufacturers, whether foreign or domestic, must meet the same standand in each vehicle class. There are NO special rules for Japanese, English, German, Korean or any other cars. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to vehicle handling dynamics, NHTSA, or how old I am. I'll give you a clue as to my age: I first met Kas Kastner when I was in high school and he was the head of the Competition Department at British Leyand in the United States. I do not suffer fools gladly are you are one huge fool about to have a one car fatal accident.:lol: Oh, by the way. I find your claim of not having time to waste looking up a citation preposterous coming from someone who has the time to waste putting up 4,137 posts on this website.

The Federal Government has a bumper height requirement. It has nothing to do with a law requiring cars to understeer. You haven't provided a citation because it does not exist. You tried searching and found nothing. Perhaps at the very least you could give me the legal definition of understeer. :lol: Like I stated earlier, you are just making this crap up and should be ashamed of yourself for doing so. The late jazz drummer Buddy Rich had a name for guys like you: B.S. High School Jive Artists.:spin:

If your car is wagging its tail, the last thing you need is more rear sway bar. The other AWD vehicles you've owned all exhibit far more understeer than your Subaru. A stiffer rear sway bar and/or stiffer rear springs and/or increased rear tire pressures all increase oversteer. I learned this when I was sixteen from a guy named Kas Kastner (look him up). It was later reinforced at the Bob Bondurant school. Current Legacys and Outbacks handle fine in winter conditions. I can and have hung the tail out on ice in corners and held it there with throttle and opposite lock. The handling is benign and repeatable. You can do it all day. :spin: If you can't keep up with winter traffic in your car, I strongly suggest ditching that after market sway bar and taking a refresher winter driving class. To the poster who claims there is a law mandating understeer: QUIT MAKING STUFF UP.

UPGRADED REAR SWAY BAR???? IN WINTER CONDITIONS????:eek: What internet rxpert suggested an aftermarket rear sway bar? If that sway bar is STIFFER, you have INCREASED OVERSTEER, the very symptom you're complaining about. I've driven several stock Outbacks in winter conditions and NONE exhibited any peculiar handling characteristics compared to a stock Legacy. You need a SOFTER sway bar (or remove it) to decrease oversteer. That said, it sounds like you do not have much exeperience in winter conditions.

Are you having overheating problems?

Except for an anti corrosive package......

Do you know if Prestone has that in print anywhere? I couldn't find that on the bottles or on their website. I seem to recall seeing low-phosphate in relation to Prestone.

Yeah, by that time the drivetrain warranties will be up and we'll all see if Subaru's "Coolant Additive" (stop-leak) band-aid helped them avoid shelling out bucks for leak repairs.

What orange stuff? You are aware that color doesn't have any significance when it come to antifreeze these days, aren't you? For example, the color of Peak Global was chosen because it won't change the color of existing antifreeze when topping off. They did this to stop customers from freaking out and calling up saying, "I added Peak Global and it changed the color of my antifreeze, what's wrong?"