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Latest rumors of what won't be available


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subyfanatic on NASIOC just posted up some comments. Since some of you guys aren't following on there, I thought I'd paste it to here: Here's a few more rumors from those district management sources I mentioned before (maybe in a different thread). They were out in California test driving the new model Legacys last week and had a few tidbits to share- No optional DVD navigation- SOA doesn't feel the pricing would be in line with what is offered from the aftermarket. Adding the extra expense and price to the vehicle wouldn't make it realistic within the market they want to target. Hence, the audio choices will pretty much remain the same except maybe for a few extra added speakers. The point of added weight and government compliance also was reason for this decision- "If the vehicle is over a certain weight a large tax penalty is imposed. Any accessory that is over 3 lbs and applied greater than 33% is subject to being applied against that weight. According to Government Regulations any product that would knowingly exceed that penetration rate can not be sold by the vehicle manufacturer." Also, no Legacy wagon (or any model) rear seat reclining feature. No long term plans at this time for 300hp or an H6 Legacy. Top of the line Outback models will get a 250hp H6, the GT and rest of Legacy line will continue with H4 ranging from the NA 168hp to the 250hp turbo. An LL Bean version of the Forester will soon be added to the mix, exact engine choice is not known at this time but, it will not be an H6 as in the Outback models. Most likely the turbo H4 with a small bump in power. The 7 passenger SUV is slated to have between 280hp and 300hp from the new 3.0 H6. Rumored seating arrangement is 2-2-3, which shocks me since I'd figure the back to be cramped in that configuration. Bye bye Baja! ('nuff said) No Legacy pricing had been mentioned, the change is not expected to be more than a 5% increase from current prices. There's also the confirmation of FHI's new global badging initiative which would basically eliminate all model name badges from the car. The Pleiades on blue background and engine trim badges is all you're likely to see on the car.
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[quote name='PPower'] The point of added weight and government compliance also was reason for this decision- "If the vehicle is over a certain weight a large tax penalty is imposed. Any accessory that is over 3 lbs and applied greater than 33% is subject to being applied against that weight. According to Government Regulations any product that would knowingly exceed that penetration rate can not be sold by the vehicle manufacturer." [/quote] Thanks for the update PP, but what does exactly does this ^ mean? I couldn't make sense of it.
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I think that it's absolute bull$hit that they don't offer all the options and let the consumer put the car in the appropriate price range.. I think that Subaru really needs to consider redoing thier marketing department. Why can't I get navigation if I want it? Why would Subaru limit us from having it if we can afford it? No auto folding seats.. that's stupid too. Let's say that I am rich and I am a subaru fan. I want a fully loaded GT... but it is "priced" at a certain level where I can't get the options that I want. Don't get me wrong, it's not that big of a deal to me.. but it's just stupid in my opinion.
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SOA is trimming back on the extra features the wagon has in other markets to keep the price closer to the sedan. I get the feeling this thing is going to be priced lower than we first thought.
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Doc Z, the above post refers to the seat reclining feature, which is different from the automatic seat fold-down, which nobody can say for sure if we get or not. Who knows? I know that my plans to acquire a silver '05 GT wagon are still on target. :D Kevin
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[quote name='Tide']Such silliness. Of course *anything* aftermarket is cheaper than from the factory! What you pay for is warranty and integration! Sillyness![/quote] That's exactly what I mean! It's the convenience in aquiring these options that's crucial to some of us. I don't want to install things on my brand new car.. some of us might but personally I don't.
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First of all, don't be so upset about no navigation. The only thing to hope for would be OnStar, and you only need to take a look at that thread to see a couple of other opinions. It's not highly regarded. If OnStar would have been a deal breaker, one should have never even considered the Legacy in the first place. It looks like Subaru is keeping the same options as it currently has, and the Outback will be the only one to get McIntosh and OnStar. This is so frustrating that Subaru is trying to start becoming premium, and they now seem to not be intent on offering premium options. Without that, it is impossible the car to really be taken seriously against "higher" cars. I imagine that part of the excuse could be to keep the price of Subaru down, but having things as available OPTIONS does the same thing. Three steps forward; two steps back. This company is so frustrating.
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Looks like I'm going to have to have some conversations with SOA this summer about such things. I think they should offer a wider selection of options the first year, see what people really like and phase out the unpopular ones instead of starting so lean. There is SO much available for the Legacy platform it isn't funny! I think no HID option would be a mistake if they want to market it upscale, look at the Mazda 3. :roll: I wonder if the ultra-low Dollar to Yen ratio plays any factor in this keeping the product trimmed. :?:
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But Mazda is weird. The Mazda 6 doesn't have HIDs, if I recall correctly. I don't know how popular HIDs are, and I certainly don't know how popular they would be with Subaru's typical market segment. I predict they will be an option before long, particularly on the Limited line of Legacies. The only question(s) I have at present are price, and suspension tuning. In my ideal world, the GT would be tighter than the Limited, based in the notion that turbo lovers are also performance lovers, who like a firmer ride. Now, this might not happen until the H6 Legacy comes down the pike. Kevin
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I agree, all the waiting does is aggrevate people. Let people decide what they want, pick their options, etc, and get the orders in. Waiting just gives people WAY too much time to think. Then again, they could still be fiddling around with prices still to this point. I was told back in December pricing had still yet to be nailed down or close to it. Sounds like a constant last minute thing for the new releases. Think WRX, then STi, now Leg. I hope this isn't a constant repeating pattern. It is good to tempt buyer, but with such a large lead time and so much other competition out there now days, it may turn into a weapon against themselves. I know the mags all saying a turbo Leg is coming for the past 2-3 years was overkill as it appeared they were anxious to see it, I'm sure buyers would liked to have seen it, but we get an FXT, a Baja Turbo, and others before the lifeblood line. A bad choice IMHO. Even the slightly laggy WRX engine would have been better than none at all. At least the Baja is being put on a ship to sail into history after this year as the message looks to show. One bad apple off the tree. The concept was sound, and it was a good vehicle at a lot of things, it just wasn't great at anything. Too much of a Jack of all trades. There are changes that need to be made up top. I know if I was there, I sure would have given it the thumbs down.
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The continual drop of the U.S. Dollar against foriegn currencies is messing with many of the overseas auto makers (nice change of pace from the 90's). The Indiana built Scooby still gets most of its parts content from Japan...They (Subaru) will have to bite the bullet one of these days and determine a price, and then they will pray that the U.S. Dollar stabilizes against the Yen... :)
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HID lights- I can somewhat understand leaving off dvd navigation- I understood the slim chance OnStar- not even as an option? memory seats- how much more does it cost over power seats to add this function? one touch rear folding seats- I can see leaving this off McIntosh- That would be such an easy option to add. Even the S40 has a 445watt 13 speaker system option. H6 Legacy- makes sense to me. I've long been saying that there could be some redundancy in offering two different engines of same hp, though it can be done. 2.5 in Legacy and 3.0 in Outback is fine for me. LCD gauges- what a joke. Give me real gauges or give me nothing so the price isn't padded. I think that's about it for the stuff we could have gotten.
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Hey all......i just received an email from SOA in regards to the Nav and Xenons options being available.... Dear Mr. F: Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your interest in Subaru products. At this time, we do not yet have all of the specifications for the 2005 Legacy models. Therefore, I am unable to answer your questions at this time. We should have this information later this Spring, as the 2005 Legacy models should be available at dealerships early this Summer. Please visit this microsite and/or contact us again in a few months. Feedback from Subaru owners is our best source for improvements needed and/or wanted in our vehicles. If you have any future suggestions, please pass them along. They are very helpful to us!! We appreciate that you took the time to give us your comments. We will forward them to our Product Planning Department for their future consideration. In the past, input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and appreciate your recommendations. Thanks again for your time and comments. Best wishes, John J. Mergen Subaru of America, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------- YOUR ORIGINAL MAIL: Hello.....I recently heard that SOA is not going to offer a Nav system or HIDs as an option on the Legacy B4. Is this true....? If it is then you guys are crazy not too. Alot of people are willing to buy this car vs. an Audi but without nav you are not in the same market. Come on SOA....I would luv to see this car get 'Car of the Year' in '05. I hope this note does not fall on deaf ears. Anyways feel free to visit [url]www.legacysti.com[/url] to see what your comsumers are saying... Thanks.... First name: Ian Last name: F. null
"Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T
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i asked them a month ago about when legacy will be available and they said they dont know anything about legacy except it's a lot better than old legac :x liars

Perrin BIG maf intake

Perrin Turbo Inlet

HKS SSQV BOV

Megan Racing header with UP (ceramic coated)

HKS DP (WRX)

DMH E-cutout

Custom 3" catback

UTEC

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The Legacy is already at a disadvantage for being a mere turbo-4 and 5 speed anyways. Why would they take away any options that may make it at least feel/look as a luxury car. Seriously, $30K for a 4 cylinder? $30K for a Subaru? I know I am not a Subbie fan/owner, but I think Subaru could put a little more thought in this. At least match the creature comforts that other marques offer since you are losing ground on name recognition alone. Not to flame. I've been very interested in the new Legacy. I've been watching these threads for the last few months but have been getting increasingly frustrated. This type of frustration has happened often in my lifetime, especially waiting for new import models, but not usually with their flagship/high-priced model. I am currently an Acura CL-S 6MT owner. My perfect subbie would be a Legacy Wagon with 6 speed, turbo H6, HID, power rear seats. Don't need McIntosh nor NAV but would like to see them as options, every other decent auto maker offers them. I would like those silly little guages on the dash where NAV should go, with the lid to hide it most of the time. It's sad that I was really psyched about the new Legacy, but this lack of news is rather annoying, especially since the darn thing was shown at Detroit, and because Subaru doesn't have much history with a lux sport sedan. I think if this keeps up I'll end up with one of the new gen hybrids from Acura or Lexus. The price will be in a different range, but there really aren't much to choose from in the Legacy price range, and it'll be sad if Subaru drops the ball.
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[quote name='questmgd']The Legacy is already at a disadvantage for being a mere turbo-4 and 5 speed anyways. Why would they take away any options that may make it at least feel/look as a luxury car. Seriously, $30K for a 4 cylinder? $30K for a Subaru? I know I am not a Subbie fan/owner, but I think Subaru could put a little more thought in this. At least match the creature comforts that other marques offer since you are losing ground on name recognition alone. Not to flame. I've been very interested in the new Legacy. I've been watching these threads for the last few months but have been getting increasingly frustrated. This type of frustration has happened often in my lifetime, especially waiting for new import models, but not usually with their flagship/high-priced model. I am currently an Acura CL-S 6MT owner. My perfect subbie would be a Legacy Wagon with 6 speed, turbo H6, HID, power rear seats. Don't need McIntosh nor NAV but would like to see them as options, every other decent auto maker offers them. I would like those silly little guages on the dash where NAV should go, with the lid to hide it most of the time. It's sad that I was really psyched about the new Legacy, but this lack of news is rather annoying, especially since the darn thing was shown at Detroit, and because Subaru doesn't have much history with a lux sport sedan. I think if this keeps up I'll end up with one of the new gen hybrids from Acura or Lexus. The price will be in a different range, but there really aren't much to choose from in the Legacy price range, and it'll be sad if Subaru drops the ball.[/quote] First things first, why would you say something like "$30K for a Subaru?" Have you ever driven a Subaru in bad weather? Have you ever driven a WRX or STi and seen what the Subaru boxers can do? Have you felt the handling of AWD? Why do you feel you have to have a 6 cylinder? What's wrong with a 5 speed? Adding the 6MT is rumored to be too heaby for the new "lighter" GT. You want an H6 turbo? I can say for certain that you can't have that and spend less than $30,000 on ONLY a Subaru. Yeah... Subaru will go ahead and offer a 350+ HP H6 Turbo Legacy for $28,000. :roll: $30,000 for a 4-cylinder? Then I like how you say a "mere-turbo-4-cylinder." This is the most ignorant statement that I have ever heard. Some of the greatest sports cars of all time were "mere-4-cylinder-turbo's". It's the stupid american ideosyncracies that "more displacement is better" and "it's offering a V6 so it's better" that pisses me off. What's the difference? Low end torque? The 2.5T that's gonna be in the legacy will build 250 lb/ft by 3600 RPM's. That will provide plenty of snap when you need it. Find a better value than this car under $30,000 (which I am sure the legacy GT will fall below) and I will show you a car that doesn't exist. Subaru makes some of the best boxers that you can get.. especially if you are already complaining about the price. Subaru is doing the same thing now that they did with the STi release. They are waiting to see what the competition does and they will one up them. Either by lowering the price or adding more value for you dollar. Rant over..
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[quote name='questmgd']The Legacy is already at a disadvantage for being a mere turbo-4 and 5 speed anyways. Why would they take away any options that may make it at least feel/look as a luxury car. Seriously, $30K for a 4 cylinder? $30K for a Subaru? I know I am not a Subbie fan/owner, but I think Subaru could put a little more thought in this. At least match the creature comforts that other marques offer since you are losing ground on name recognition alone. Not to flame. I've been very interested in the new Legacy. I've been watching these threads for the last few months but have been getting increasingly frustrated. This type of frustration has happened often in my lifetime, especially waiting for new import models, but not usually with their flagship/high-priced model. I am currently an Acura CL-S 6MT owner. My perfect subbie would be a Legacy Wagon with 6 speed, turbo H6, HID, power rear seats. Don't need McIntosh nor NAV but would like to see them as options, every other decent auto maker offers them. I would like those silly little guages on the dash where NAV should go, with the lid to hide it most of the time. It's sad that I was really psyched about the new Legacy, but this lack of news is rather annoying, especially since the darn thing was shown at Detroit, and because Subaru doesn't have much history with a lux sport sedan. I think if this keeps up I'll end up with one of the new gen hybrids from Acura or Lexus. The price will be in a different range, but there really aren't much to choose from in the Legacy price range, and it'll be sad if Subaru drops the ball.[/quote] Now, this post does point out the perception issues that people have with 4-cylinder motors. I remember waxing an 8-cylinder Impala in my WRX wagon, and at the next stoplight, the driver asked, "What's in that thing?" "A four-cylinder," replied I. "Man, that thing goes like an 8." So I waxed him again. Subaru will have to rely on getting people to drive the car, and performance numbers from road tests, which will undoubtedly be impressive, probably in the STi's neighborhood. For the record, that's fast. For a sports sedan that seats five comfortably, that's insane. Rather than Subaru's "dropping the ball," I would say that Subaru has smacked it out of the park. Find me another car for the GT's sub-$27K base price (current price plus 3%) with the same style, amenities and performance, including all-wheel-drive. No, wait...I'll save you some time. It doesn't exist. You can get a stripper A4 1.8T for that, but no Quattro at that price, and no 17s, not to mention smaller brakes, no 6-disc CD changer, etc. See what I mean? It sounds as if you really shouldn't be looking at the Legacy anyhow. Judging from the mostly negative posts you've been submitting about what the car doesn't have, rather than looking at what the car does have, you might be happier with something that already has the features you desire. And if you keep the Acura CL, print out a nice, glossy pic of the back end of the Legacy GT, and tape it to your dashboard in anticipation. Cheers, Kevin
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