Mazdaspeed6 faster than LGT

Hahaha! Anybody read the latest Car and Driver. Glad I picked it up before hopping on the plane to San Diego. They thought the 6.2 to 60 is underestimated, then they drove it on a test track and said it almost definitely is. HAHAHA!

Of course, no real numbers yet. Booo. Still, I was worried there. Got a 12-pack of Oral-B toothbrushes all set to go. I now feel confident that I won't need to use them.

-B

I still got the overall impression from the article that their impression of it was somewhat lukewarm.

I'm sure they'll include it and the LGT in another comparo sometime. No, wait. They'll give it a review of its own... unlike what they did with the LGT.

Hahaha! Anybody read the latest Car and Driver. Glad I picked it up before hopping on the plane to San Diego. They thought the 6.2 to 60 is underestimated, then they drove it on a test track and said it almost definitely is. HAHAHA!

 

Of course, no real numbers yet. Booo. Still, I was worried there. Got a 12-pack of Oral-B toothbrushes all set to go. I now feel confident that I won't need to use them.

 

-B

Inside joke? Clue us in?

History:

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5705&page=3&highlight=mazdaspeed6

automobile magazine (with the "big block party" on cover) DROVE the mazdaspeed6. here is a quote:

"....Once in those corners, though, the car understeered excessively, and the all-wheel-drive system's abrupt transfer of torque to the rear axle was very abrupt, unsettling the tail."

LOL.

like we always say about FWD-based awd --it isn't as though you don't notice that power transfer.

Hahaha! Anybody read the latest Car and Driver. Glad I picked it up before hopping on the plane to San Diego. They thought the 6.2 to 60 is underestimated, then they drove it on a test track and said it almost definitely is. HAHAHA!

 

Of course, no real numbers yet. Booo. Still, I was worried there. Got a 12-pack of Oral-B toothbrushes all set to go. I now feel confident that I won't need to use them.

 

-B

Your either confused, or you are confused.

If C & D thought the estimated 0-60 time of 6.2 seconds is "underestimated" and after a test drive they said it "almost definitely is" you know that means they feel it's FASTER, not slower like you seemed to imply in this message.

By the way, in the new issue of Road and Track, Mazda told them the

estimated 0-60 is 5.5 seconds!

It has both more claimed hp and torque than our cars, but is like 300 pounds heavier. The MS6 also has a 6 speed manual compared to our 5 speed manual.

If it's geared right, it could very well beat our cars in a straight line.

But, since it's a 100% front wheel drive based car, which can "send" 50% of it's power to the rear, and with it's porky weight and evidently HIGH center of gravity (they needed to buldge the hood up just to make the intercooler fit...man that engine must sit up HIGH in that chassis) I wouldn't be too worried about handling. Of course, our cars come with abysmal stock tires for performance driving too.

In any case, I think they are limited production run cars anyway. They're based off of a FWD platform, and the body is already 2 years old.

I REALLY sure it will have VERY similiar performance numbers to our cars, but who cares really. Nothing like competition to help get Subaru to bring over a Legacy STi. With 300+ hp Mazda would have nowhere to go with their MS6, it's already boosted to 15.6 psi, doubt they'll do much more.

I think the MS6 will be faster than the LGT, but only by a bit. The estimated weight of the MS6 is going to be around 3500 lbs., which is only about 100 lbs. more than the LGT. It's rated at 274 hp and 280 lb/ft. Gives it a better power to weight ratio than our car, but only slightly. I know that Mazda is somewhat infamous for overating the hp of their cars, but looking at the engine specs, it seems that they might very well be underrating the MS6 engine. Couple of factors. Boost pressure is 15.6 psi, on top of a 9.5:1 compression ratio. That's a lot of air in and the high CR adds to the efficiency. The reason it can run that much boost on a NA-like compression ratio is that it uses direct injection. This allow fuel to be injected directly into the combustion chamber, where you can take advantage of the latent heat of evaporation to cool the intake charge and avoid detonation. All this should add up to a very powerful motor.

What I don't understand is why the car has a top-mount intercooler. First off that is not exactly the best place to put in from a heat soak perspective, but it's cool if you run a hood scoop, like the WRX and LGT. Mazda shuned the scoop and instead gave the hood a grotesque bulge in order to duct air from the bumper to the intercooler. Just don't get that one. What makes it even worse is that the stock bumper has a couple huge cutouts that scream for a front mount. I'm sure the aftermarket will address that, but it sucks that they couldn't get it right from the factory.

The AWD system looks like it will be the car's Achilles heal. The 6 chassis is lively and responsive and really a good handling platform. Of course with the extra power of the MS6 engine it would be overwhealmed if it stayed FWD. Problem is that Mazda and father Ford haven't quite come up with a good AWD system.

Anyways, I think the MS6 will be a nice car, but it supposed to go for $28K without leather, sunroof and some doodads so it should sticker right on with a base LGT, and be equiped about the same. C&D said that the LGT is the primary target of the MS6. However, if the past repeats itself, the MS6 will be selling right at MSRP for some time, while the LGT goes for invoice. That will make the MS6 around $1500 more. I like my fiancee 6, and had the MS6 been out when I bought my LGT, I'd have looked at it, but for more money and a with crappy AWD system, I'm not loosing any sleep over my choice.

If Mazda was to drop this engine, drivetrain and tranny into the Mazda 3 (hatchback...and obviously call it the MazdaSpeed 3) and

price it about $26-27K then we might have something. It would be a 4 door

VW R32, but even faster, for less coin.

You'd of thought Mazda would of done that first, it would compete directly

with the Saab 9-2X, but hand it a major whooping, for a couple grand less!

That's a car (Mazda) I would surely be interested in having.

Automobile mag quotes 6-6.2 seconds. Who cares if it's faster? It's still a Mazda and with many Ford parts-bin stuff, not the same quality as a Subaru.

Not that I'm a Ford loyalist, but there is nothing wrong with Ford quality. I have nothing but respect for the durability of Ford products. My company truck is a Ford Ranger with 175K miles and it runs as strong as day 1. I beat on it all day long, and it's still solid and rattle free. We have a fleet of them and they have held together amazingly well.

Don't forget about Subaru's "relationship" with GM. The auto industry is global now. Honda's are made in Ohio, Nissans are made in Tennessee, VW's are built in Mexico, heck, GM builds Buicks in Shanghai for the Asian market! Point being that the line between domestic and import has been blurred to the point of irrelevance.

The whole "Mazdaspeed" concept is a joke.

They're limited production cars that become obsolete within a year.

Good luck with maintenance after the warranty expires. I'll bet every drive-train part on that car will cost 3 times the normal Mazda 6 replacement.

Not trying to be biased here; I'm sure the Mazdaspeed 6 will look better than the Legacy GT, but if I were still on the fence, I doubt this car would sway me from a Legacy GT purchase.

--

On a side note, as I've stated here before, the John Q Public's of the world (who don't strictly study 0-60 times and horsepower before making a purchase) already prefer the Mazda 6 to the Legacy, so how or why Mazda is trying to make a profit with the Mazdaspeed 6 is a mystery to me.

If they want a flagship car, they should drop a real motor in the RX-8.

Not that I'm a Ford loyalist, but there is nothing wrong with Ford quality. I have nothing but respect for the durability of Ford products. My company truck is a Ford Ranger with 175K miles and it runs as strong as day 1. I beat on it all day long, and it's still solid and rattle free. We have a fleet of them and they have held together amazingly well.

 

Don't forget about Subaru's "relationship" with GM. The auto industry is global now. Honda's are made in Ohio, Nissans are made in Tennessee, VW's are built in Mexico, heck, GM builds Buicks in Shanghai for the Asian market! Point being that the line between domestic and import has been blurred to the point of irrelevance.

Thanks man.....I wasn't sure about who owned who... (In case you were wondering.....I used to work for AIADA, the biggest lobbyist on Capitol Hilll for foreign car makes. It was our job to protect the interests of imports brands since they were as domestic as the big three. And the big three were trying legislate their way into tarriffs on non-domestic brands just a few years back....remember the Luxury Tax...err the Lexus Tax? No? That's becuase we shot it down)

I just rode with a co-worker yesterday in her '99 Ford Escape....she has a 100K on it. The suspension clunks like something is going to fall off and she has to roll the window down to open her door from the outside to get out. No thanks. I have bought used cars with more miles and in better shape. And, don't bother defending Ford on the Escape (or Mazda on it's version) - it's common knowledge these products were sub-par. They are built differently than the truck line which tends to hold up better. But, the example is germane as the topic of this thread is the new Mazda and I made a point about quality, given the manufacturer's track record.

You also missed a key point. GM has a financial interest in Subaru and does not own it. Therefore, Subaru doesn't have to go to the parts bin to build their cars. Ford owns the majority of Mazda and therefore they share development strategies and costs.

The whole "Mazdaspeed" concept is a joke.

 

They're limited production cars that become obsolete within a year.

 

Good luck with maintenance after the warranty expires. I'll bet every drive-train part on that car will cost 3 times the normal Mazda 6 replacement.

 

Not trying to be biased here; I'm sure the Mazdaspeed 6 will look better than the Legacy GT, but if I were still on the fence, I doubt this car would sway me from a Legacy GT purchase.

 

--

 

On a side note, as I've stated here before, the John Q Public's of the world (who don't strictly study 0-60 times and horsepower before making a purchase) already prefer the Mazda 6 to the Legacy, so how or why Mazda is trying to make a profit with the Mazdaspeed 6 is a mystery to me.

 

If they want a flagship car, they should drop a real motor in the RX-8.

um, just wait a bit. i think the next mazdaspeed product is a 'speed RX8.

and i'm watching carefully.

the rx8 already handles brilliantly and the only thing that i categorically dislike about it is the lack of torque. gearing can only hide so much, after all.

it's a world of great cars for ~32k nowadays, but they all have their downsides. even an e46m3 has a downside at 55k. i can live with downsides at 32k --hard to accept them at 55k and up.

Not so fast. those Oral Bs maybe handy.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?evo/http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/driven_story.php?id=52257

which more reliable? C&D or EVO? 'nuff said.

Not so fast. those Oral Bs maybe handy.

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?evo/http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/driven_story.php?id=52257

 

which more reliable? C&D or EVO? 'nuff said.

am happy to wait and see.

can't wait to see how they review a 3600 pound piglet --the language will be more fun than the C&D language.

Thanks man.....I wasn't sure about who owned who... (In case you were wondering.....I used to work for AIADA, the biggest lobbyist on Capitol Hilll for foreign car makes. It was our job to protect the interests of imports brands since they were as domestic as the big three. And the big three were trying legislate their way into tarriffs on non-domestic brands just a few years back....remember the Luxury Tax...err the Lexus Tax? No? That's becuase we shot it down)

 

I just rode with a co-worker yesterday in her '99 Ford Escape....she has a 100K on it. The suspension clunks like something is going to fall off and she has to roll the window down to open her door from the outside to get out. No thanks. I have bought used cars with more miles and in better shape. And, don't bother defending Ford on the Escape (or Mazda on it's version) - it's common knowledge these products were sub-par. They are built differently than the truck line which tends to hold up better. But, the example is germane as the topic of this thread is the new Mazda and I made a point about quality, given the manufacturer's track record.

 

You also missed a key point. GM has a financial interest in Subaru and does not own it. Therefore, Subaru doesn't have to go to the parts bin to build their cars. Ford owns the majority of Mazda and therefore they share development strategies and costs.

I don't think I missed the point at all. There is a prevailing attitude that import is better quality than domestic. I used to think the exact same thing. My experiences with a few domestic cars/trucks has given me enough anecdotal evidence to believe that you cannot generalize that way. That was the point I was addressing. You will always have some bad apples in the lot, regardless of make or model, so your experience with the Escape is just that... one experience.

I am well aware that Ford plays a more signifigant role in the development of Mazda products than GM in Subaru product. In the case of Mazda though, it seems as though they get much of the new technology and platforms, which then trickle down to Ford. For instance the 6 platform is slated for use in the Mercury Zephyr and the 3 platform will become the next Focus. In a kind of wierd way, Ford is sharing Mazda's R&D rather than the other way around. Ford has been good for Mazda, as it has given them far deeper pockets to work with.

Whatever the "relationship", the point I was trying to stress is that people need not worry about who the corporate parent or partner is. People on the Mazda board fret about Ford and people here fret about GM. It just doesn't matter. Take the product at hand and face value. If you like it, buy it.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Ford owns 33% of Mazda, which is certainly not a majority stake.

They released the pricing at the LA Auto show for the Mazdaspeed 6

Base price is: $27,995

with GT package (leather, heated seats/mirrors/power drivers seat)

it goes too: $29,925

want the sunroof with that: $30,625

want NAV system too... $32,625

Now maybe those who were crying that the LGT was too expensive will shut up.

LGT is less in base form than base MS6.

And to get a comparable MS6 to the LGT-L you have to spend $30,625 again, about a grand more than the LGT-L

My '04 Mustang Mach1 was my first domestic auto purchase. I've got 10,000 miles on it with one warranty claim. My '05 Legacy GT has 7,500 miles and has had 5 warranty issues so far. Maybe Subaru needs to raid the Ford parts bin!

I think Ford's doing just fine with what is basically a 1978 Fairmont.

automobile magazine (with the "big block party" on cover) DROVE the mazdaspeed6. here is a quote:

 

"....Once in those corners, though, the car understeered excessively, and the all-wheel-drive system's abrupt transfer of torque to the rear axle was very abrupt, unsettling the tail."

 

LOL.

 

like we always say about FWD-based awd --it isn't as though you don't notice that power transfer.

With all this whining around here about FWD based AWD, it seems people have forgotten that the revered EVO has FWD biased (from 100/0 to 50/50) AWD with a transverse mounted engine. With this "inferior" system, it is seemingly preferred over the STi for absolute handling prowess.

In this day of speedy electronics and sensing technologies, it seems that an electronic AWD system has reached the level of competence of a mechanical system while offering added features due to these electronics (SH-AWD anyone?).

Wanna know what also, the MS6 doesn't come in a wagon form either. Kind of a pre-req for me, not that I *NEED* it, but that it has come in handy more than a few times and really prefer it now, even after owning both, so even if I was considering an MS6, that would rule it out right there. Wagons are so nice! Funny thing is my GT (base) wagon with 5MT weighs 150lbs less than their base manual sedan.

Although I do like the idea of direct injection and hence the ability to run a higher CR with forced induction and able to run it safely. That's something I'm waiting for Subaru to do.

I think this car is great. All cars need close competition and this offers some to the Legacy as it doesn't really have much truely in its class (turbo 4, awd etc..) Close competition is good STi VS EVO, Legacy GT V Mazdaspeed 6...

hmmm, wouldnt a more aggressive version of this engine and sportier suspension in a mazda 3 be a STi and EVO fighter

hmmm, wouldnt a more aggressive version of this engine and sportier suspension in a mazda 3 be a STi and EVO fighter

that's in the form of the Volvo T5 AWD.

I think the MS6 will be faster than the LGT, but only by a bit. The estimated weight of the MS6 is going to be around 3500 lbs., which is only about 100 lbs. more than the LGT.

With all this whining around here about FWD based AWD, it seems people have forgotten that the revered EVO has FWD biased (from 100/0 to 50/50) AWD with a transverse mounted engine. With this "inferior" system, it is seemingly preferred over the STi for absolute handling prowess.

 

In this day of speedy electronics and sensing technologies, it seems that an electronic AWD system has reached the level of competence of a mechanical system while offering added features due to these electronics (SH-AWD anyone?).

Electronic systems? SH-AWD? I'll take a mechanical system please, thanks.

Except for that it'll be closer to 3630 lbs making over make it 300lbs more than a LGT...

Huh, I've got my February C&D in front of me now, which had the weight at 3500 lbs.

Well, I also just looked up the specs on http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/specs_features/veh_specs_MS6.pdf and Mazda puts the curb weight at 3589. So I was a little low and you were a little high. Compared to the LGT at Subaru's claim of 3365 lbs., that almost exactly 200 lbs. heavier for the MS6. Pretty portly, but I can say that the 6 is a bigger car, so some of the weight is there.