BEHOLD! Vacanza Cusco Sways are here!

yea, yea, yea.. pics pics pics (please thank [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] for the supplies of endless grip, parts, and help on getting me what I need to keep this GT planted on the ground!): [img]http://www.speedoptions.com/members/38458/40461/pic39.jpg[/img][img]http://www.speedoptions.com/members/38458/40461/pic40.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.speedoptions.com/members/38458/40461/pic41.jpg[/img][img]http://www.speedoptions.com/members/38458/40461/pic44.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.speedoptions.com/members/38458/40461/pic42.jpg[/img][img]http://www.speedoptions.com/members/38458/40461/pic43.jpg[/img] Ok, now for the specs: Stock Front Sway = 21mm New Front Sway = 23mm Stiffness Increase = 132% Stock Rear Sway = 16mm New Front Sway = 21mm actual Stiffness Increase = 244% (furthest hole) 266% (closest hole) I decided to put the rear to full stiff knowing full well that the car needs to keep that rear happy under off-throttle situations. The car tracks considerably well and less body roll can be felt within the driver's seat. If there is another front sway bar made by another company that is bigger than 23mm, go get it, the front still rolls quite a bit, but not as much before the installation and test drive. Installation was a breeze.. do note that taking off the mufflers for the rear, and taking off the front brace bar and front diffuser-pan for the install is a must or you'll have a heck of a time trying to snake the stock bar out. Another note is to lift both rear wheels so that the stock sway bar isn't under load when installing the rear.. same goes for the front.. for this install, removal of the tires are not neccessary. For those who are about to ask "what about the endlinks?" I have an answer. The type of endlink you can use on the rear must be a straight bar type, unlike the Helix WRX Rear Endlinks which is shaped like a "C" will not clear due to limited spacing and clearance. Now, a HELIX WRX Front Endlink [i][b][u]MIGHT[/u][/b][/i] work because of the straight design. As for the Front Endlinks on the GT, it is a mere 2" long endlink, which will be harder to find a solid endlink opposed to the bar/rod type endlink as it uses now. More research will be needed to confirm fitments. Enjoy the pics and stay tuned for the reviews and additonal feedback later! Keefe

Great posts Xenonk :) Really enjoy your posts and your blazing the trail for the rest of us.

Thanks, I appreciate it, not to mention to be one of the USA pioneers with modding. Keefe

You suck.... :P Now I can tell those bars will fit. Also, you might want to check out Agency Power endlinks. Awesome build and very durable. I wonder why they went with gold? You are correct in saying that the front could be a bit bigger. Maybe I'll wait for Tanabe to make the Sustec sways for the Legacy. On my Rx-8 they were 30mm front 21mm rear.

ps perrin sells rear endlinks.. they are also coming out with a complete sway bar kit and a bunch of other stuff, i will post a price list as soon as i get it :)

[quote name='highwaydrifter']ps perrin sells rear endlinks.. they are also coming out with a complete sway bar kit and a bunch of other stuff, i will post a price list as soon as i get it :)[/quote] Perrin is about 6 wks away on the sways and will be 22mm front and rear. Springs are ETA 8 weeks. The will also have available a turbo back exhaust in a couple of weeks that retails for $1300. A TMIC in 2 weeks and some other stuff like intake and inlet pipes and fuel rails.

hmm funny i can order them now ;)

[quote name='highwaydrifter']hmm funny i can order them now ;)[/quote] I spoke with Perrin directly and they said a prototype set of sways are on their Legacy as we speak and is headed for SEMA.

;)

Can anyone describe the exact changes you would get from stiffer sway bars. People describe the car as 'tighter' and 'stiffer' but I am not sure how this relates to my daily driving. Sure.. i take corners pretty good.. and really have no problems... Are you saying that this will make the car tend to stay more upright during a hard turn ?

A thicker front sway bar should cut down on front end twisting and reduce body roll. I think the front end of the Legacy isn't as stiff as it should be, and with a thicker front sway bar it should help keep the front end flater through turns. I actually never did swaybars on my WRX, I did just about everything else you can imagine though, whole new suspension (springs/struts/top hats), aluminum control arms, lateral links, trailing arms, all that stuff. But I never really felt the need for sways. Now on the legacy though the body roll is worse and the need for sway's is apparent. The loose front end on the legacy when turning and going over bumps, and the fact that the rear end likes to lift during turning and throttle adjustments is to much.

We have the Cusco Leg-GT sway bars on order and if anyone is interested plesse let us know so we can have more for you !! We are extending our current website line of Legacy parts to be vast, so if there is something someone needs , please let us know. Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile.

[quote name='RaceComp Engineering']We have the Cusco Leg-GT sway bars on order and if anyone is interested plesse let us know so we can have more for you !! We are extending our current website line of Legacy parts to be vast, so if there is something someone needs , please let us know. Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile.[/QUOTE] Price-wise....what are we talkin here??? :cool:

[quote name='BoxerGT2.5']Price-wise....what are we talkin here??? :cool:[/QUOTE] PMed you Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile

[quote name='RoundBoy']Can anyone describe the exact changes you would get from stiffer sway bars. People describe the car as 'tighter' and 'stiffer' but I am not sure how this relates to my daily driving. Sure.. i take corners pretty good.. and really have no problems... Are you saying that this will make the car tend to stay more upright during a hard turn ?[/QUOTE] The sways will help your car to remain as flat/upright as possible. The job of the sways is to help the two wheels (front left and front right OR rear left and rear right) to share the gripping duties as much as possible, giving you more grip laterally.. it's usually a combination of the shocks, springs sways and even strut bars to keep the car flat as possible from left to right.. there are even bars that will help keep the car from twisting from front to rear as well. A sway is only so helpful as long as the the tires are touching the ground. Depending on how you want your car to handle (understeer or oversteer or neutral), the sway bars will help you in enhancing these characteristics.. if you want the car to be more "tail happy", a larger sway bar in the rear will make that happen.. if you think the car is too "tail happy" in the rear, you can step up to a larger sway bar in the front to keep the front of the car "ahead" of the rear during a turn. If you just want to upgrade proportionally, you would look into finding a proportional gain of size for the front and rear sway bars. The "stiffer" sway bars are usually thicker and have less bends on the bars to prevent any type of torsion flex. Basically, the sway bars keep the car from "rolling" or from dipping hard from a corner by keeping the entire chassis planted as a whole unit rather like a flimsy piece of cardboard and tipping over like an SUV. The sway bars help you keep all 4 tires on the ground as much as possible to give you more grip, rather than relying on just using the outside two tires for grip. The "tighter" feel actually means more lateral g-forces that you feel from the additional grip [while your body is being thrown one way, the car goes another way]. Of course, there is a possibility that your inside tires (relative to turning in a corner, making a left turn means your "inside" tires are on the left or side closest to the center of the radius of the turn) can lift off the ground EVEN WITH stiffer sway bars. When this happens, it's time for some springs or better shocks to keep the car from dipping to one side as well.. you can see a lot of my autocross pics with the stock shocks AND the Zeal Coilovers that my car had a lot of rolling and lifting on the inside wheel.

The other thing to note is that swaybars are part of an overall suspension package. Go too big, and your suspension becomes LESS independent, even as roll reduces. This will manifest itself in things such as ride harshness, bump steer, skittishness in the rain, and unpredictability at the limit. Just remember that bigger isn't necessarily better. Xenonk is doing it right, looking at sways after finishing everything else. If I were modding a Legacy, suspension-wise, I would do: Tires (the first thing to do. The difference they make is surprising.) Springs (moderate drop, as in less than an inch, slight increase in rate, but nothing crazy, maybe 30-40%). STi rear links package. After that, if the car still didn't do what I wanted, I would very judiciously explore swaybars. Someone posted that stock is 21f/16r. I would think after the springs and links, the back end will be doing precisely what you want it to do, while your suspension will still be able to dance the mambo over the rough stuff. If I were going to touch sways, rather than going larger at the rear, I would go smaller at the front. An interesting thing might be if the Legacy i model has a smaller front bar than the GT. Suspensions are still the great beyond with the Legacy, and something that people should think about before they even think about a power mod. The mod chain, for those unfamiliar with my cranky view, is tires, suspension, brakes, then power at the end of it all, if you still feel the car is insufficient. Now, the GT needs tires, if you're serious about making much of the car's sporting intentions. Suspension-wise, the GT is, in the USDM, slightly undersprung. This makes for a very nice ride quality, but also accounts for some of the impact harshness people feel over short, sharp bumps. That's a characteristic of an overdamped ride. But that's the only time you notice it, so it's fine. People comment on the GT's body roll. Slightly stiffer springs will go a long way toward taking care of much of it. Too stiff and the whole car starts to move instead of the suspension. Keep in mind that you want some suspension compliance, so some body roll will exist. Brakes? Please... Power? That's a topic for another forum. Good luck, and thanks for the post, Xenonk! Kevin

Not a problem.. it's just that I feel that majority of the people out there who decides to do mods lose focus on what the ULTIMATE goal of their car should PERFORM, not what it should be.. just having 500 whp or $13,000 Motons doesnt make it the best PERFORMING car.. if you cant put down 500whp correctly, what's the point of having it other than the sake of having it? Nothing much to brag about really if the car can't perform. Keefe

Great set of posts Xenonk and gtguy, so on perspective and so instructive. You have said it before, but these two posts bring it all together. This should almost be a starting point, must read set of posts for anyone nubees on the Susp/Brakes forum. My first BMW was a 94, 325 basic. Only mods were upgrade to 17s with great tires and Eibach springs set. Very minor drop, less than an inch. With those two basic mods, car felt so much better. Loved the way sucked road over humps and odd surfaces. No float and no jitters, just lazer control feeling. Handling in the 40-70 mph range is where most of the driving fun is and brute power is just excess when you go much beyond the current Leg GT, IMO. As the supply market matures for Leg GT, I hope to hear more about well matched, modest spring options and rear links. Not sure what gtguy's comment was about brakes for Leg GT. I have heard they are great, unless you are heavy autoX. Smaller front sway is a very interesting thought. Am I wrong to think that some have described stock Leg GT setup as a bit tail happy or prone to rear lift? Again, thanks for great posts

[quote name='MtnSub']Great set of posts Xenonk and gtguy, so on perspective and so instructive. You have said it before, but these two posts bring it all together. This should almost be a starting point, must read set of posts for anyone nubees on the Susp/Brakes forum. My first BMW was a 94, 325 basic. Only mods were upgrade to 17s with great tires and Eibach springs set. Very minor drop, less than an inch. With those two basic mods, car felt so much better. Loved the way sucked road over humps and odd surfaces. No float and no jitters, just lazer control feeling. Handling in the 40-70 mph range is where most of the driving fun is and brute power is just excess when you go much beyond the current Leg GT, IMO. As the supply market matures for Leg GT, I hope to hear more about well matched, modest spring options and rear links. Not sure what gtguy's comment was about brakes for Leg GT. I have heard they are great, unless you are heavy autoX. Smaller front sway is a very interesting thought. Am I wrong to think that some have described stock Leg GT setup as a bit tail happy or prone to rear lift? Again, thanks for great posts[/QUOTE] My brakes comment is referencing the fact that the GT has most excellent brakes that need nothing. Lines and fluid would improve feel, but not stopping power, which they have aplenty. Many have indeed described the GT as "tail happy." The base suspension tuning, just on the understeering side of neutral, is very cool. I remember when I added the lateral/trailing links package to my WRX wagon, the butt got verrrrry jittery. I added some understeer with the Cusco V2 lower front brace. Because no such product isn't available for the GT, after you tighten up the rear that much, you might need to get some understeer back. A smaller front bar would be one way to do it. Remember that Subaru's SPT suspension kit decreased the size of the front sway bar, so I'm not the only crazy one. :D The posts are no problem at all. We all should help each other out, and share what we know. There are some who know more than I do, who will also chime in at some point. It's all about sharing knowledge to help us all understand our cars. Kevin

I'm with MtnSub... I'm interested in "well-matched, modest spring options and rear links." My hunch is the JDM GT spring/strut/hat combo is it, but it could be STi pink springs, Bilstein BTS, Eibach, etc. Time will tell. As for auto-x brakes, no, more brakes aren't needed. If you're using the brakes that hard in an auto-x, then you're doing something wrong. Track days, OTOH, are another animal.

[quote name='gtguy']My brakes comment is referencing the fact that the GT has most excellent brakes that need nothing. Lines and fluid would improve feel, but not stopping power, which they have aplenty. Many have indeed described the GT as "tail happy." The base suspension tuning, just on the understeering side of neutral, is very cool. I remember when I added the lateral/trailing links package to my WRX wagon, the butt got verrrrry jittery. I added some understeer with the Cusco V2 lower front brace. Because no such product isn't available for the GT, after you tighten up the rear that much, you might need to get some understeer back. A smaller front bar would be one way to do it. Remember that Subaru's SPT suspension kit decreased the size of the front sway bar, so I'm not the only crazy one. :D Kevin[/QUOTE] I boiled my stock brake fluid in a matter of 2k miles and 2 autox :p Serious note: dont skimp out on the brake fluid. I agree, the brakes are great, but the pads and fluid needs help. The GT already has a similar "Cusco V2 under-brace". You'll notice it when you have to replace the front sway bar. Something is usually overlooked when it comes to making the car perform or gain back from understeer and that is dropping the rear tire pressure down a few psi OR/AND change up the front end alignment to have more toe-in in the front or run a little bit less camber.. it's really based on the conditions of the track, and it's the job of the driver to make the best of how the car is setup currently. Depending on the duration of the race (say seat time and track events), tire pressures change and the rear end may get a little bit loose after the few laps or so.. but the alignment is pretty much fixed for the entire duration of the session. That is why the Vacanza rear sway bar has two adjustable bolt-on settings to allow you to dial in what you need for the rear end. And with the combination of the coilovers, you can soften the rear to keep the rear end planted a little bit better during a corner. It really depends on how comfortable as the driver you are to understand what the car can do on you when X amount of input is dialed in.. ANY car can pretty much plow when you have the wheel at full lock and you are just adding the gas.. in other words, it's VERY EASY TO DO A LOT OF WRONG THINGS WHEN DRIVING ;) . I even have a few track friends telling me that 911s and NSXs push here and there at times.. so just becareful of what you are modding and live a happy life with the car. My $0.02 Keefe

bump for some great posts! 944 turbo guy Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile.

[quote name='Xenonk']it's VERY EASY TO DO A LOT OF WRONG THINGS WHEN DRIVING ;) [/QUOTE] VERY VERY TRUE ! 944 turbo guy Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile

bump

When are these gonna be in stock??? I'm getting impatient waiting for other companies...:)