4eat to 5mt question

So i have a 95 legacy wagon 4eat that is my daily driver and have a 95 legacy wagon 5mt with a bad motor. So basically the exact same car. I have done enough research to know basically what I need to swap over to mine to make it a 5spd but my main question is will I need to swap over the ECU also?

All of the research I found was from people doing swaps from other years and they had to do something to their ECU to trick it to make it believe their car was a manual. But since mine will be the same everything what will I need to do?

Also mine has an egr valve and the manual does not.

you will throw the p1702 code in the 1995 forever.

you will throw the p1702 code in the 1995 forever.

 

 

Would you mind expounding on that? Why would I throw it? Are you saying I would throw it if I swapped ECU's or if I didnt?

 

Also can you give me some advice on how to make this work if you know?

 

 

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Strip both cars, in their entirety. Down to the frame. Seats out, carpet out, dash out. All of it. Then swap, and put it all back, plus the crossmember, pedal box, driveline and rear end.

 

You're in for a lot of work.

The '95 is proprietary in it's wiring.

 

so in a normal swap there'd be an AT/MT ID pin on the ECU that you are supposed to add, then ground.. from 5v to 0v. however, that pin cannot be accounted for to date in this specific year.

 

also, it will depend on the type of the trans. you plan to swap to... if it''s a hydraulic style, in some 95s there was no pre existing hole in the fireweall for the mastercylinder so you'll need to make a template and drill into the firewall to mount it up..

 

the 1702 had not been an issue in my daily driving, i had been averaging about 30 mpg after the swap for a while also. but the CEL the you have to clear once or twice a week for that code gets old.

The '95 is proprietary in it's wiring.

 

so in a normal swap there'd be an AT/MT ID pin on the ECU that you are supposed to add, then ground.. from 5v to 0v. however, that pin cannot be accounted for to date in this specific year.

 

also, it will depend on the type of the trans. you plan to swap to... if it''s a hydraulic style, in some 95s there was no pre existing hole in the fireweall for the mastercylinder so you'll need to make a template and drill into the firewall to mount it up..

 

the 1702 had not been an issue in my daily driving, i had been averaging about 30 mpg after the swap for a while also. but the CEL the you have to clear once or twice a week for that code gets old.

 

 

Have you done this swap?

 

 

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yes

Have you done this swap?

 

 

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Did a 92 L, to a 5mt and turbo, actually.

Just put the 4eat's motor in the 5mt. Done deal. Trust me when I say that is a ton easier, and my only swap was in a 98 with all the wiring...

Just put the 4eat's motor in the 5mt. Done deal. Trust me when I say that is a ton easier, and my only swap was in a 98 with all the wiring...

 

 

If I did that would I have to swap over the ECU since the good motor will have an egr on it and the bad motor doesnt?

 

 

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Just put the 4eat's motor in the 5mt. Done deal. Trust me when I say that is a ton easier, and my only swap was in a 98 with all the wiring...

 

I'm wanting to swap a 5mt into my '98 4eat. Is the process easier for the '98 than the '95?

If I did that would I have to swap over the ECU since the good motor will have an egr on it and the bad motor doesnt?

 

 

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Oh damn... Didnt even think about that. Looks like no matter what you do there will be a lot of wiring. I suggest taking Mr. Tris' advice and stripping the cars down to combine the wiring harnesses.

 

I'm wanting to swap a 5mt into my '98 4eat. Is the process easier for the '98 than the '95?

 

Theyre the same mechanically. As far as wiring goes, I cant tell you how hard the 95 is. I will tell you this: get a donor car. Pulling everything from a scrapyard is good and all, but in the 98 I did I should have swapped wiring harnesses and deleted the TCM. Still throwing codes from it months later, but that could just be my poor woring skills.

Why not just ignore the MIL? 1995 cars can pass emission tests with MIL on. First year of OBDII requirement was 1996. Then again, sometimes states ignore federal mandates and do whatever they want. check your local rule book. I know in VT if it's older than a 1996, inspection station does just a safety inspection.

...(swap)the crossmember, pedal box, driveline and rear end.

 

You're in for a lot of work.

 

There's also this. You will need to swap out the rear end, unless you can identify both the MT and AT ratios and they match. As for the lack of EGR, why couldn't you block off the port on the head and swap intakes?

Just put the 4eat's motor in the 5mt. Done deal. Trust me when I say that is a ton easier, and my only swap was in a 98 with all the wiring...

 

 

So let's say I do this and make my donor car my daily driver.. Which honestly right now sounds better then swapping transmissions. So the five speed car is the L trim version with no EGR. If I then swap a good, 2.2 motor with EGR into the car with no EGR then will that create problems? Will I have to do anything with the ECU?

 

 

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the five speed car is the L trim version with no EGR. If I then swap a good, 2.2 motor with EGR into the car with no EGR then will that create problems? Will I have to do anything with the ECU?

no you will have no issues.

the ecu is not looking for ERG info so if, IF, it receives any it is simply ignored.

swap the engine and drive on.

a shop can do it in a day, (if the ''new'' engine is already out)

plan on a week end.

 

if the 95 AT to MT swap ''always'' results in a CEL, this is news to me.

but i'm an AT guy and have not studied this swap.

and zues seems very confident and has first hand knowledge that i do not.

but if it is true,

it is the only time i have heard that you cannot correct a CEL after an AT to MT swap.

 

EDIT: i may have over stated ....

there is a CEL for putting a non-EGR engine in an EGR car which cannot be eliminated.

 

there is a work around but you need an EGR intake manifold to do it.

there may be others.

 

if you want to test my theory,

swap the ECUs from the non-running car to the running car.

i think it will run just fine, no CEL.

what ever the difference is,

it is in the harness.

or so i have been led to believe in all the other engine / trans / ecu swap postings.

 

good luck.

no you will have no issues.

the ecu is not looking for ERG info so if, IF, it receives any it is simply ignored.

swap the engine and drive on.

a shop can do it in a day, (if the ''new'' engine is already out)

plan on a week end.

 

if the 95 AT to MT swap ''always'' results in a CEL, this is news to me.

but i'm an AT guy and have not studied this swap.

and zues seems very confident and has first hand knowledge that i do not.

but if it is true,

it is the only time i have heard that you cannot correct a CEL after an AT to MT swap.

 

if you want to test my theory,

swap the ECUs from the non-running car to the running car.

i think it will run just fine, no CEL.

what ever the difference is,

it is in the harness.

or so i have been led to believe in all the other engine / trans / ecu swap postings.

 

good luck.

 

 

Thats awesome. Thank you man. Great info and advice.

 

 

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the CEL is a P1702 which is the AT/MT ID pin on the ECU not reading 0v for the MT, instead its reading 5v for the AT.

 

well pin 20, pin 81, and a couple other numbers have been suggested by Brian @iWire wiring services but none have worked so far.

 

If i remember correctly all i had to do the retain EGR was swap the IM and sensors from the EJ22

Here it goes...

It sounds like you have mechanical part under control. The rest is wiring and let me tell you it is not hard at all.

 

-On your ECU plug, you need to ground pin 81, it tells the ecu whether the car is a MT or AT. I can take pictures of mine if you need them, it is pretty easy though.

-On the AT tranny plug, the one that is 4x4 you need pins 9-12. On mine 9-10 are for reverse lights and 11-12 are for neutral safety switch on the clutch petal. I wanted a clean look on mine so I cut the AT tranny side plug and then on the MT car I cut the car side reverse lights plug. Then I made a connector and hard wired my NSS because i had no wire for that.

-On the auto shifter you need to connect the two wires on the AT lock switch thing, its a little black piece on the side of the shifter mechanism, this lets your key out.

-ABS and Cruise can be jury rigged to work, but it is way easier to swap out the parts car cruise control and components and same with the ABS.

-You will want an ECU for a 96-97 MT EJ25 car or your idle will never be perfect, but it will run on the auto ECU. It took me a long time to find one myself.

 

Other Notes

-The outback drive shaft and your AT LGT drive shaft wont work. You will need to source a sedan MT driver shaft.

-To install petals you need to pull just about everything you can from under the dash to make it a million times easier.

-You need the starter from the parts car.

-If you can use the radiator from the parts car, otherwise you will just have the tranny cooling lines coming out.

 

Good luck with the swap. If you have any question just ask.

 

Here is a good swap thread I referred to a few times. The OP is on nasioc a lot if you have any questions for him.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/05wrx-5-spd-98-legacy-gt-wgn-auto-5spd-conversion-136840.html

 

And here is a link to a .zip file for the FSM. I highly recommend reading through the wiring part, it makes it way easy.

 

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru_manual_scans/1997_Legacy_FSM/

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51723

.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51723

 

 

Instead of doing all that stuff with the ECU, couldn't I just swap the ECUs?

 

 

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if the 95 AT to MT swap ''always'' results in a CEL, this is news to me.

but i'm an AT guy and have not studied this swap.

and zues seems very confident and has first hand knowledge that i do not.

but if it is true,

it is the only time i have heard that you cannot correct a CEL after an AT to MT swap.

 

As of today the only CEL im throwing is the NSS which can be corrected. Swapped tranny and driveshaft from a 99 legacy outback limited into a 98 legacy outback.

As of today the only CEL im throwing is the NSS which can be corrected. Swapped tranny and driveshaft from a 99 legacy outback limited into a 98 legacy outback.

 

 

And thats all that you swapped? Didnt mess with the ECU at all?

 

 

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ecu isnt the issue, it just needs to know which trans is attached to it. you shouldnt even have to change the ecu out. the wiring is the issue for most all swaps as far as i know, and the 95 is vastly different from 94 and 96, making it a pain to swap to. from what ive read, its because the wiring is different between them for the trans type, and what works on 96-99 doesnt work on 95 models. so, a 99 into a 98 wouldnt be that difficult, given the wiring change is documented and proven. no one knows what wire to ground out or change for the 95, making it a perpetual code error