Diamond F-569 coil - What's up with it

Ok I am confused.

My 97 Outback Limited coil is a Diamond F-569. I tested the Ohms according to Haynes and it is not anywhere near. Of course we all know about the reliability of Haynes but I digress.

Sitting here on my desk both first and secondary measure 20.6 with the meter at 200K. Setting the meter at 2M I get .019.
What it was on the car warm it was around 23.


Haynes says --
Primary is 0.62 to 0.76
Secondary is 17.9 to 24.5

So I ask the question, what should a Diamond F-569 meter ohm out at and why do my parts stores all show a coil with male ends?

My car has a transplant engine and I am wondering, was the transplant engine a 2.5 liter for an Outback Limited?

My car has a transplant engine and I am wondering, was the transplant engine a 2.5 liter for an Outback Limited?

first, does the car run?
why are you testing the coil?
what is the car doing? or not doing?

now, it really does not matter much if the engine in the car is an ej25 or not. what matters is if the engine in the car matches the computer. all 95 - 98 engines will match your computer, (assuming the ECU has not been changed.)

so a few things to look for:
on the block under the power steering pump there is a casting in the block. it will read either EJ25 or EJ22.
what does it read?

also, 96 - 99 outback engines have 4 round ''lobes'' on the front (cam sprockets). two on the driver side of the engine and two on the passenger side.
count them, how many? (you have to look down at the front of the engine close to the radiator fans.

answer these 2 questions about the engine, and the 3 questions above and then we can help you.

It is EJ25.
Looks like 4 round lobes (there are four conical like mounds on the black cover - two on each side)

The car runs.

Before I bought it the mechanic's assistant put new plugs in it and why in the world he didn't put new plug wires on while he was at it is beyond me.

The car has a lumpy idle, feels like it is missing at the lower RPM range. Goes like crazy once it reaching cruising speed and feels rather smooth.

The car sat for 4 or so years before they put another engine in it. So I could have some nasty ethanol laced gas / water.

They installed a new timing belt, new throttle body gasket. There is no CEL.

So I was just thinking that perhaps the coil is a little weak to get the car up to speed. That is why I was looking at the coil.

Originally Posted by johnegg

first, does the car run?
why are you testing the coil?
what is the car doing? or not doing?

now, it really does not matter much if the engine in the car is an ej25 or not. what matters is if the engine in the car matches the computer. all 95 - 98 engines will match your computer, (assuming the ECU has not been changed.)

so a few things to look for:
on the block under the power steering pump there is a casting in the block. it will read either EJ25 or EJ22.
what does it read?

also, 96 - 99 outback engines have 4 round ''lobes'' on the front (cam sprockets). two on the driver side of the engine and two on the passenger side.
count them, how many? (you have to look down at the front of the engine close to the radiator fans.

answer these 2 questions about the engine, and the 3 questions above and then we can help you.

the most common cause of a no start after major engine work is the timing is off.

the same is almost true for a ''not quite right'' idle.

pop off the cam covers, 3 bolts each side, and see if the cam sprocket ''HASH'' marks line up correctly. (you will have to rotate the crank with a socket / ratchet / breaker bar in order to get it lined up.)
if all 4 cam sprocket HASH marks line up you are probably good. but not guaranteed. (the crank could be off.)

but it is not unusual for a cam to be a couple of teeth off.
check it.

if that is all ok. i would look for a vac hose that has a leak. they can cause issues . and not unusual for a car that sat for years.

if you do not find the cams out, or a vac leak, you need to check the crank timing.

let us know what you find.

I am still not sure which engine model to use when I order parts. An EJ25 would be which model and or year?

I was thinking of checking the hash marks. Does the cam cover come off without removing any other bits?

I have yet to spray anything to check for vac leaks but it is on the list.

Check the timing? I haven't had a timing light in years. Maybe I can borrow one.

It really acts like my caddie did when the wires were shot. I had to drive half way across the country with that condition. It was fine at highway speed but low end was terrible.

Originally Posted by johnegg

the most common cause of a no start after major engine work is the timing is off.

the same is almost true for a ''not quite right'' idle.

pop off the cam covers, 3 bolts each side, and see if the cam sprocket ''HASH'' marks line up correctly. (you will have to rotate the crank with a socket / ratchet / breaker bar in order to get it lined up.)
if all 4 cam sprocket HASH marks line up you are probably good. but not guaranteed. (the crank could be off.)

but it is not unusual for a cam to be a couple of teeth off.
check it.

if that is all ok. i would look for a vac hose that has a leak. they can cause issues . and not unusual for a car that sat for years.

if you do not find the cams out, or a vac leak, you need to check the crank timing.

let us know what you find.

you should be able to see the engine stamp on the block near the PS pump

all Outbacks have the ej25 out of the factory

no need for a timing light on these motors

JohnEgg said to check the crank timing and to me that meant a timing light.
AM I missing something and if so, how do I check the crank timing?

Since the engine says e25 it must be an Outback engine. Now I wonder why my coild has female ends and not male ends.

Originally Posted by Zues Marine

you should be able to see the engine stamp on the block near the PS pump

all Outbacks have the ej25 out of the factory

no need for a timing light on these motors

Its just what they used, if you had the fuji one that has male ends all youd need to grab would be wires and that setup could work.

All the coil does is amplify the signal into a usable form.

As long as the ecu and engine are correct, technically any stock coil/wire combination will work.

The reason you don't need a timing light is because these engines don't run a distributor, there for you wouldn't need to make sure cyl 1 is firing at TDC when you see the hashmark on the crank.

I don't know how exactly, but checking the crank timing is mechanical, not electronical, the coil fires according to position of trigger wheel, which is according to how the engine was mechanically assembled (supposedly) in time.

No disto I knew and that was what was throwing me off because I was thinking --- "how would I adjust the timing if it were off." But I guess it could be off if the timing belt was off.

If the coil is giving out bad signals, dirty signals because it was dying, that should cause driving problems???

If I go to any local parts store, any online parts store and plug in "97 Subbie - Outback limited" the only coil they show is male ends. If I plug in say a 1998 Forrester into the parts search, I can see female ends.

The local Subbie dealer wasn't offering any help about the coil with male/female ends.

Originally Posted by Sludgeroo

Its just what they used, if you had the fuji one that has male ends all youd need to grab would be wires and that setup could work.

All the coil does is amplify the signal into a usable form.

As long as the ecu and engine are correct, technically any stock coil/wire combination will work.

The reason you don't need a timing light is because these engines don't run a distributor, there for you wouldn't need to make sure cyl 1 is firing at TDC when you see the hashmark on the crank.

I don't know how exactly, but checking the crank timing is mechanical, not electronical, the coil fires according to position of trigger wheel, which is according to how the engine was mechanically assembled (supposedly) in time.

My wife wants to drive "her new to her" car to work today. Maybe I'll have time tolook at the hash marks when she gets home tonight.

Originally Posted by johnegg

the most common cause of a no start after major engine work is the timing is off.

the same is almost true for a ''not quite right'' idle.

pop off the cam covers, 3 bolts each side, and see if the cam sprocket ''HASH'' marks line up correctly. (you will have to rotate the crank with a socket / ratchet / breaker bar in order to get it lined up.)
if all 4 cam sprocket HASH marks line up you are probably good. but not guaranteed. (the crank could be off.)

but it is not unusual for a cam to be a couple of teeth off.
check it.

if that is all ok. i would look for a vac hose that has a leak. they can cause issues . and not unusual for a car that sat for years.

if you do not find the cams out, or a vac leak, you need to check the crank timing.

let us know what you find.

Originally Posted by Zues Marine

All Outbacks have the ej25 out of the factory

Are you sure? I thought the 96 OBs had the ej22 that required premium.

i had a feeling someone was going to mention that, i left it out because he said he had a 97 and i didnt want to confuse him, lol

I thought the 96 OBs had the ej22 that required premium.

yes and no.

(in the US)
the 96 outback manual trans had an ej22, no option.
the 96 outback auto trans had an ej25 and required premium gas.

after 96 the only outbacks to get the ej22 are the ones where the owners swapped them in.
all were ej25 from the factory.

coil failure is not common. i will not say it does not happen but it is not common.
the igniter is probably more common than the coil .

given your situation, it is the timing or the plug wires.
wires are the leading cause of misfires.
but in this case my guess is the timing or a vac leak.
but if the wires are not in good condition, replacing them may be less work but more money than checking the timing. but if they are not new or high quality you will want to replace them at some point.
with these engines, o2 sensors and plug wires need to be HIGH quality. do not cut corners, buy subaru or better. NGK plugs as specified in the owners manual.

pic of timing below.when installing a timing belt it is important to use the correct alignment marks to avoid valve damage.
(but when checking to see if the cams are timed right, relative to each other, the arrows can be used. but please do not repeat this. it will confuse a ton of folks.)
if you have to reset the timing, or check the crank position, you will need to remove the crank pulley and bolt, and the center timing cover.




.

My guess is the wires, I've had this situation on other cars, the same feeling.

In my cars I always buy good wires, I like a good spark. Not looking forward to changing those wires....errrrr.

Originally Posted by johnegg

coil failure is not common. i will not say it does not happen but it is not common.
the igniter is probably more common than the coil .

given your situation, it is the timing or the plug wires.
wires are the leading cause of misfires.
but in this case my guess is the timing or a vac leak.
but if the wires are not in good condition, replacing them may be less work but more money than checking the timing. but if they are not new or high quality you will want to replace them at some point.
with these engines, o2 sensors and plug wires need to be HIGH quality. do not cut corners, buy subaru or better. NGK plugs as specified in the owners manual.

pic of timing below.when installing a timing belt it is important to use the correct alignment marks to avoid valve damage.
(but when checking to see if the cams are timed right, relative to each other, the arrows can be used. but please do not repeat this. it will confuse a ton of folks.)
if you have to reset the timing, or check the crank position, you will need to remove the crank pulley and bolt, and the center timing cover.




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