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Harmonic Balancer Wearing into Timing Belt Cover? WTF?!


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I had my timing belt replaced in December of 2011 by a mechanic. Ever since, I have heard sloshing noises from the coolant, my car randomly overheats, and now this happens....

 

The harmonic balancer is wearing into the timing belt cover, which threw the belts of out line and caused the Compressor belt to come off and rub a groove into the cover as well. I bought a new belt thinking I could put it on, and before I even started I noticed this.

 

Edit: Appears to have been simply due to age and use as the rubber deteriorated in the pulley. Replaced with Lightened Crank Pulley and haven't looked back.

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C360_2012-09-04-17-11-38.thumb.jpg.8402a361fbac72c0b7c309d435e98d82.jpg

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The crank pulley may be bad and needs to be replaced. The rubber in it may be shot.

 

You need to jack up the right front corner of the car and remove the cap from the turbo coolant tank, squeeze the hoses and burp the coolant system.

 

It's common knowledge for anyone who works in these and some other cars. You need to burp the coolant system and top it off.

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

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The crank pulley may be bad and needs to be replaced. The rubber in it may be shot.

 

Those pulleys are known to fail over time and do what you describe unless it was not tightened to the right torque. When you take it off, make sure you check your woodruff key. Time for an LCP.

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Will bad rubber cause a wobble in the crank pulley? I'm not about to accuse a shop of a wrong install if it turns out to be a part that has gone bad by itself, unless it was their cause.

 

I'm thinking of ordering a new LCP, radiator, and hoses and doing it all at once since it appears that the radiator will need to be removed to access the nut on the CP.

 

I would expect a certified shop to burp the coolant if draining is required for the timing belt install, but I guess I'm alone on that one.

 

Max, by right front you mean front passenger? Last I check the turbo res is on the passenger side so that would make the most sense to me.

 

Anything else worth replacing while I've got it torn down? Car has 130k on it now, so I assume there might be more that I will run into.

 

edit: looks like it happens: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/23706-my-crank-pulley-ate-my-timing-belt-cover-print.html?perpage=8

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I plan on doing that radiator regardless. I think the tabs on it are pulling apart and it leaks when the engine is cold. That and it gives me an excuse to get an all aluminum mishimoto, and flush the system and put Subaru Blue in. Just need to decide on a standalone tranny cooler since there are no actual non-plastic options for 5eat's with a built in tranny cooler.
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Just for reference, Subaru's do not have a harmonic balancer.
[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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This exact same thing happened on my 2000 Outback. I found out when my AC stopped working accompanied by a flapping noise while almost home following a 8hr (each way) road trip. The flapping was my AC compressor belt, which had come off the compressor pulley.

 

I was lucky, the crank pulley didn't make it to the timing belt before I caught it.

 

I did a writeup on SubaruOutback.org:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/23706-my-crank-pulley-ate-my-timing-belt-cover.html

 

Jim

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This exact same thing happened on my 2000 Outback. I found out when my AC stopped working accompanied by a flapping noise while almost home following a 8hr (each way) road trip. The flapping was my AC compressor belt, which had come off the compressor pulley.

 

I was lucky, the crank pulley didn't make it to the timing belt before I caught it.

 

I did a writeup on SubaruOutback.org:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/23706-my-crank-pulley-ate-my-timing-belt-cover.html

 

Jim

 

Thanks for the link, Jim. I actually ran across your thread yesterday (linked in archive version in one of my other posts).

 

I'm glad its not too bad of a fix, and one I can do myself. The upgraded Lightened Agency Power pulley should be slightly beneficial too with my 5eat.

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Ahhh, I'm busted. Nothing left to do but admit guilt: I totally didn't read the entire thread before replying. Sorry about that.

 

The best part about my Outback was that I had zero aspirations of increased performance. It was paid off at 75k miles, and I drove it to 185k before picking up my LGT, so it was all about keeping it running. I bought a used pulley for $30 or so from a forum member and kept on truckin'!

 

Good luck with the fix. It's not a bad job on these cars. The worst part is getting the crank bolt loose, but even that's generally overrated.

 

Thanks for the link, Jim. I actually ran across your thread yesterday (linked in archive version in one of my other posts).

 

I'm glad its not too bad of a fix, and one I can do myself. The upgraded Lightened Agency Power pulley should be slightly beneficial too with my 5eat.

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To break the crank bolt loose, read the timing belt threads. I showed how I used a 1/2" breaker bar braced on the ground and then bumped the starter over. I put a piece of plywood behind the radiator for safety.

 

I read that idea on here. It wasn't mine.

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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Ahhh, I'm busted. Nothing left to do but admit guilt: I totally didn't read the entire thread before replying. Sorry about that.

 

The best part about my Outback was that I had zero aspirations of increased performance. It was paid off at 75k miles, and I drove it to 185k before picking up my LGT, so it was all about keeping it running. I bought a used pulley for $30 or so from a forum member and kept on truckin'!

 

Good luck with the fix. It's not a bad job on these cars. The worst part is getting the crank bolt loose, but even that's generally overrated.

 

Its no problem. I'm glad you chimed in! And thanks.

 

Max, thanks for the tip.

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To break the crank bolt loose, read the timing belt threads. I showed how I used a 1/2" breaker bar braced on the ground and then bumped the starter over. I put a piece of plywood behind the radiator for safety.

 

I read that idea on here. It wasn't mine.

 

I ended up doing that the first time too. The second time I found the service port above the torque converter (the Outback was an auto) and wedged it with a big screwdriver. I was able to hold the screwdriver with left hand while breaking the crank bolt with my right.

 

I suppose I prefer the second way now, but the starter method definitely works. Just make sure you get the direction of rotation right!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Got the new Agency Power LCP installed. Was not too difficult. Starter method worked like a breeze. Had to get creative torqing the new one back down though. FWIW the lightened pulley makes a very noticable difference in throttle response and overall low rpm engine performance.
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It will need replaced. The belt wore through it and I can see one of the pullies. I didnt have time to deal with it as I had to get back to school. Its not bad though. I might just get creative with some JB weld.
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  • 7 months later...
Not being a dick but just for reference the rubber encapsulated crank pulley on the LGT's is a harmonic damper :)

 

No, it isn't.

[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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Not being a dick but just for reference the rubber encapsulated crank pulley on the LGT's is a harmonic damper :)

 

 

:orly: Not what Subaru said.:rolleyes::)

 

Important:

The OEM crank pulley does not act as a harmonic damper found on for example traditional V8 engine dampers. The elastomer portion of the pulley helps dampen some noise from the engine accessories (ie. alternator, PS pump, and A/C compressor) but in our experience, the increase in this noise is in-perceivable.

Here is a note directly from SOA:

"Thank you for your patience as I checked with our Technical Services Department regarding your message below. They advised that the crank pulley is a pulley and nothing else. It is not used as a harmonic damper/balancer. Thanks for the opportunity to be of assistance. If you need any future assistance, please feel free to contact us again."

Best wishes, John J. Mergen

Customer Service Department Subaru of America, Inc."

 

 

From link in quote below. .

 

Grimmspeed asked Subaru directly, and they said that the crank pulley is not used as a harmonic damper:

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_54_103&products_id=230

 

Eric

 

Mike

Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold

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I 100% totally disagree since mine just took a crap and literally order a "harmonic balncer" directly from subaru for my 05 LGT. A pulley does not have rubber encased between a two half pulley. If if this was also the case it would be identical to the STi ones. Also it wouldnt have its own section in Alldata in regards to shake in steering wheel at idle. It is really quite simple a pulley is all metal a harmonic damper/balancer has is two pieces bonded together with rubber in between that absorbs the vibrations.
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I 100% totally disagree since mine just took a crap and literally order a "harmonic balncer" directly from subaru for my 05 LGT. A pulley does not have rubber encased between a two half pulley. If if this was also the case it would be identical to the STi ones. Also it wouldnt have its own section in Alldata in regards to shake in steering wheel at idle. It is really quite simple a pulley is all metal a harmonic damper/balancer has is two pieces bonded together with rubber in between that absorbs the vibrations.

 

You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make you right.

 

Flat 4's don't experience the type of vibrations that make harmonic balancers necessary. Physics proves that, and Subaru sums it up by simply saying that it isn't a harmonic damper/balancer.

[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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I 100% totally disagree since mine just took a crap and literally order a "harmonic balncer" directly from subaru for my 05 LGT. A pulley does not have rubber encased between a two half pulley. If if this was also the case it would be identical to the STi ones. Also it wouldnt have its own section in Alldata in regards to shake in steering wheel at idle. It is really quite simple a pulley is all metal a harmonic damper/balancer has is two pieces bonded together with rubber in between that absorbs the vibrations.

 

I understand what your saying, but I'll have to agree with the two guy's here who have been known to be some of the few "go to guy's" when you have questions about these cars.

 

Check this link out too. Item 16 Pulley-Crankshaft,

 

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b13/type_5/engine/camshaft_and_timing_belt/illustration_2/

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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