T1 ID 1000 plumbing options

Created this thread as a place to price out plumbing options for the T1 Sidefeed to Topfeed Conversion.

Some starter considerations:
T1 conversion rails have -6 AN female o-ring ports that require -6an 0-ring male fittings.
-6an = 3/8"
NOTE: -6 AN flare fittings will seal against T1 rails if a proper -6 AN o-ring is applied on each fitting.
Stock fuel connections = 8mm (5/16")
Factory FPR is 8mm nipple (5/16") so it's easier though more expensive to go with an aftermarket FPR if you are using fancier hoses.
Fittings that have a 90* elbow turn are much more expensive than straight fittings.


Bend your own steel tubing
Steel Tubing
~$30 Steel Tubing 3/8" from Flarsei on eBay. He sells a seamless 3/16L type that is probably as good as it's going to get for any automotive lines. http://cgi.ebay.com/3-8-316-SS-Tubin...#ht_919wt_1137
Flaring and Bending Tools are a separate purchase.
Flare Nuts and Fittings
Go with steel ones, and use antiseize on the threads, not the flare.


Cheapest w/ rubber hose
Male AN to 5/16" Barb
$20.95 - Aeromotive 5/16" Barb to Male -6 AN Fittings - Black - 15635 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-15635/
O-rings to seal rail fittings
$5.39 - Earl's 176006ERL - Earl's Performance Replacement Buna N O-Rings -6an
Hose
~$5/ft - 5/16" Fuel Injection Hose Teflon Lined from any auto parts store.
Fuel Injection Hose clamps
~$5 for a pack if you don't re-use stock ones, any auto parts stores


Pushlock Option for either platform
Male O-ring to male AN
$9.21 - Earl's AT985006 -6an to #6 O-ring Ano-Tuff AN Port Adapter ("O" Ring Seal). Black. http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...Tuff!_Adapters
or Summit version
$7.88 - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220166B/
Barbed/Pushlock to -6an Female:
$3.79 - Summit straight female Twist Lock hose end - Black - SUM-220701-B http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220701-B/
$9.95 - Summit 90 degree female Twist Lock hose end - Black - SUM-220711-B
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220711-B/
Hose:
Do NOT buy Summit's Aeroquip AQP Socketless hose. It is the wrong type of AQP hose.
The proper spec AQP push lock hose is FC332, page 17 in http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products...Q-MC001-E1.pdf
Minimum bend radius of 3".

Get this:
$80 shipped for 15 feet - Aeroquip Socketless hose FC332 - Black

If you will be using the stock FPR assembly with feed dampeners, you will need to use -6AN to 8mm or 5/16" barb adapters on one port of each rail.
$20.95 - Aeromotive 5/16" Barb to Male -6 AN Fittings - Black - 15635 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-15635/

5/16" or 8mm "FUEL INJECTION HOSE" (not Carburetor Fuel Hose) will be required to connect the rails to the FPR assembly's feed and return barbs. It needs to be SAE 30R9, not 30R7. 30R7 cannot safely handle our fuel pressure levels.
This is my favorite kind http://www.goodyearep.com/productsdetail.aspx?id=5144
Teflon lining means this hose is completely Ethanol safe and should outlast typical rubber fuel hose. Every 5/16" or 8mm hose connection requires a fuel hose-specific clamp. Not a worm gear clamp!

Adapting factory hard lines to -6 AN
$17.95 - Russell 5/16" Fuel Rail Fitting Adapter - Black - 640863 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640863/
Use one of these to convert a stock steel feed line at the firewall from 8mm stock Quick Disconnect to -6 AN male flare. Seals on the stock hard line with an internal o-ring.

This can make it a lot easier to plumb in an aftermarket FPR.



Swivel-Seal Option for Either platform:
Swivel-Seal Fittings
$7.79 - Earl's AT800106 -6an to -6an "Black"Hard anodized swivel seal aluminum Hose End http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...&dept=Ano-Tuff
$21.39 - Earl's AT809106 -6an to -6an "Black"Hard anodized 90Deg Tube Swivel Seal Hose End http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...&dept=Ano-Tuff
Male O-ring to male AN
$9.21 - Earl's AT985006 -6an to #6 O-ring Ano-Tuff AN Port Adapter ("O" Ring Seal). Black. http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...Tuff!_Adapters
$14.56 - Earl's AT949006 -6an to #6 O-ring 90Deg. Male AN to Male Swivel A.N. Black. http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...Tuff!_Adapters
Hose:
$7.35/foot - Earl's -6an PRO LITE 350 ,USE SWIVEL SEAL OR "AT " HOSE ENDS http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...&dept=Pro-Lite
Male O-ring to male AN
$9.21 - Earl's AT985006 -6an to #6 O-ring Ano-Tuff AN Port Adapter ("O" Ring Seal). Black. http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...Tuff!_Adapters


Choose your line configuration:

Platform 1:
Series Configuration (similar to stock)
This will work wonderfully for almost all users.

Platform 2:
Parallel Configuration
I'm not going to go with this method at this time. There is probably no benefit to it. Tony at T1 told me very plainly that Parallel is a complete waste, and he even sees the T fittings people use to split the fuel flow as being a source of pressure drop. These T fittings are not used in Series configurations.
There are theories that injector pulses, which cause oscillations in Fuel Pressure, can be mitigated with Parallel configuration. There is a lot more to this than it appears at first.

I'll update this post with my parallel setup once it's done. I got my Y fittings and assembly tools yesterday. Just waiting on the hose and the rest of the fittings.

I have a new fuel system going in shortly. All plumbing has been purchased. I suggest you check out Redhorse Performance, XRP and Aeroquip for fittings. I have seen the black Redhorse in my hand and they are actually NICER finish than the Aeroquip + black is nice. I will be using Redhorse...

Stainless steel braid hose is tough. I called pretty much EVERY major manufacturer about E85 compatibility. Only Aeroquip says their AQP rubber will survive long term with ethanol exposure (from their FBA/FCA product line). All the other major manufacturers recommend teflon lined rubber hose i.e. Earl's Speedflex. Teflon has it's own problems- most of the teflon lined hoses have poor flexibility and god help you if you manage to crack the teflon through rough handling- you will have a BAD leak.

PM me if you need more details.

I decided to eliminate the factory FPR and anti-surge diaphragms. I went with a Weldon, but Fuelabs has a very nice FPR (in a bunch of pretty colors). Aeromotive FPR is tried and true also.

Parallel should be much better setup for no pressure drops, but I am hard pressed to think of a way to use the factory FPR in a parallel setup.

check out bottom of page 2 of below PDF- very useful and similar to what I did (except I am using Aeromotive 14134 rails w/ ID1000's- same exact idea though)
http://www.fuelab.com/images/stories...structions.pdf

The easiest way I know of:

* Four 6AN-to-5/16-nipple fittings from Aeroquip ($20 each)
* 6AN o-rings - 176006ERL ($cheap)
* Several feet of 5/6 Fuel hose from your local auto parts place ($10/foot or so)
* At least a half-dozen 5/16 fuel hose clamps ($pittance for a box of a dozen)

Make sure the hose is rated for at least 43psi + whatever boost you're going to run. I'd consider 65psi to be the bare minimum. But, I found 140psi hose without even looking, and LittleBlueGT found 300psi hose (for $5/foot!).

When I did my initial install, I used this approach for the rears of the rails, with a segment of braided steel to join the fronts.
LittleBlueGT is working on a setup using rubber hose exclusively, I suspect he'll be posting pics in the not-too-distant future.

For the braided segments, I used Earl's Speedflex hose, with Earl's Speed-seal ends (6AN exclusively). That's the hose that the guy at ANPlumbing.com recommended, and that's the only compatible hose end for that hose. It's is teflon-lined, so there's no worries about seepage or fuel smells. Braided fuel hose has a reputation for that kind of thing, and it mostly comes from using the wrong hose for the job.

Some related info here:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...ap-139738.html

Originally Posted by mpiotro

Parallel should be much better setup for no pressure drops, but I am hard pressed to think of a way to use the factory FPR in a parallel setup.

Fuel supply from firewall ==> Y-adapter ==> two parallel paths through the fuel rails ==> another Y-adapter ==> one single hose to the factory FPR ==> back through the firewall to the tank.

I haven't actually done this (yet?) but I'm sure it will work...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1462667

Originally Posted by NSFW

Fuel supply from firewall ==> Y-adapter ==> two parallel paths through the fuel rails ==> another Y-adapter ==> one single hose to the factory FPR ==> back through the firewall to the tank.

I haven't actually done this (yet?) but I'm sure it will work...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1462667

if doing parralel, here is a little more detail...

fuel supply from firewall - L-shaped fuel dampener - male quick disconnect (5/16ths to 6an I believe) - 6an hose end connected to 6an hose to 6an hose end - 6an flare union fitting - 6an Y adapter or distribution block is what Earl's calls it - two 6an flare union fittings connected to Y adapter - two 6an hose ends/hose/hose ends - 6an o-ring boss fitting (one side is flared and the other is flat with a little rubber gasket on it) - fuel rails - 6an boss fittings - 6an hose ends/hose/hose ends - two 6an o-ring boss fittings - Aeromotive motive A1000 fuel pressure regulator (has two 6an inlets for each rail) - one 6an o-ring boss fitting on fpr outlet - 6an hose end/hose/hose - female quick disconnect (5/16ths to 6an I believe) - fuel return at firewall

I did mine similar to the above, except I did not run it in parallel...did consider it but the better of the two shops that I had my car taken to suggested series would be the better way to go for sure...and that is what I found reading online as well...

as for the hose ends, you are definitely going to need some 90 degree bends and some other angled bends depending on where you mount fpr and have other stuff in the way under your hood...

Originally Posted by lil_z_33

if doing parralel, here is a little more detail...

fuel supply from firewall - L-shaped fuel dampener - male quick disconnect (5/16ths to 6an I believe) - 6an hose end connected to 6an hose to 6an hose end - 6an flare union fitting - 6an Y adapter or distribution block is what Earl's calls it - two 6an flare union fittings connected to Y adapter - two 6an hose ends/hose/hose ends - 6an o-ring boss fitting (one side is flared and the other is flat with a little rubber gasket on it) - fuel rails - 6an boss fittings - 6an hose ends/hose/hose ends - two 6an o-ring boss fittings - Aeromotive motive A1000 fuel pressure regulator (has two 6an inlets for each rail) - one 6an o-ring boss fitting on fpr outlet - 6an hose end/hose/hose - female quick disconnect (5/16ths to 6an I believe) - fuel return at firewall

I did mine similar to the above, except I did not run it in parallel...did consider it but the better of the two shops that I had my car taken to suggested series would be the better way to go for sure...and that is what I found reading online as well...

as for the hose ends, you are definitely going to need some 90 degree bends and some other angled bends depending on where you mount fpr and have other stuff in the way under your hood...

This is exactly what I once hoped to do, and it is exactly what I am looking to avoid since it is very expensive

Originally Posted by ClimberD

If I get my PE850s working well, then this swap will be a waste of money.

Quick question - what is the issue with your PE850's? (I run 'em too.)

PE's are junk

almost everyone that comes to the dyno with them has issues. they aren't matched well injector to injector. they have a crappy spray pattern. sometimes they are also electrically inconsistent from one to another.

Since the Bosch EV-14's have come around, and especially since T1 started matching them so well, there really no other injectors worth buying.

Originally Posted by mwiener2

PE's are junk

almost everyone that comes to the dyno with them has issues. they aren't matched well injector to injector. they have a crappy spray pattern. sometimes they are also electrically inconsistent from one to another.

Since the Bosch EV-14's have come around, and especially since T1 started matching them so well, there really no other injectors worth buying.

Come on. Your keeping the rumors alive. I've still never heard a first-hand account of a problem with them. That's why I am curious about OP's experience.

I'm the one swapping the injectors.... is that not first hand enough?

Lots of misfires after a major swap. Injectors are freshly cleaned and flow tested by WitchHunter. They vary from 850cc to 852cc. Pretty much perfect matched set. Misfires are on all cylinders (roughness). Haven't ruled out an air leak or grounding problem (one strap is disconnected). Fuel pressure is rock solid. Plugs are new. Fresh fuel. I was insanely thorough on my install. Once I rule out these issues I will update the thread. Honestly I want the bigger injectors so a bigger turbo will be an easy swap later on. E85 will max these out as is

Originally Posted by Legend

Come on. Your keeping the rumors alive. I've still never heard a first-hand account of a problem with them. That's why I am curious about OP's experience.

I have seen it first hand and would never use them again.

Originally Posted by ClimberD

Cheapest w/ rubber hose
Male AN to 5/16" Barb
$12.15 - Aeromotive 15635 -6an male flare to 5/16" barb http://www.google.com/products/catal...CBoQ8wIwAjgA#p
O-rings to seal rail fittings
$5.39 - Earl's 176006ERL - Earl's Performance Replacement Buna N O-Rings -6an
Hose
~$5/ft - 5/16" Fuel Injection Hose Teflon Lined from any auto parts store.
Fuel Injection Hose clamps
~$5 for a pack if you don't re-use stock ones, any auto parts stores

So I have the ID1000 top feed kit, and I have 4 of the -6an male flare to 5/16 barb fitting.



Now I need an O-ring for it?

I am not familiar with An fittings, so I need some help here.

everyone I've ever bought came with an O-ring