DD Quest for POWER!

THE STORY

My STI performance envy is getting the better of me, and I need some guidance in my quest for daily driven power, from our more experienced members. My plan is to go stage 2 with a tune and enjoy the extra power while moving toward stage 3 as parts/finances/advice become available to me.

THE GOAL

I am looking for daily driven power with OEM reliability/driveability (not abused). I put 50k on the car and I want to put on another 50k. The Leggie cannot strand my fiancée and she cannot be intimidated by the idea of driving the car. (I need to be able to take our Durango for work.) Leggie needs to retain the ability to drive in bumper-to-bumper rush hour all week and fly through the canyons on the weekends. I am no hurry to change internals or swap for a 6MT. Stage 2 goals would be in the neighborhood of 240+whp and stage 3, 300whp (again not trying to break my 5MT). I would like to retain power on tap vs. more power a shift away. Maybe 20g? 35bb? AVO380? The 35/40bb powerbands look very impressive. I am worried a vf39/52 or 18g may not do it for me but the cost is appealing.

THE VICTIM

2005 Legacy GT, MT, Unlimited, owned since new – zero power mods with the following upgrades: DBA4000 slotted rotors Hawk HPS Pads, BF Goodrich G-Force Sport, Exedy Stage 1 clutch, F1 LWFW (13.9lb)

THE BUDGET

$1500: Plenty to reach 250whp+/300tq+

STAGE 2 POWER (nothing yet installed)

M2 Uppipe (purchased), ERZ Downpipe (ordering), ItsMe FMIC (downpayment), Perrin Short Ram (purchased), Infamous1 Tune (can’t wait!!!)

EDIT: UEL Headers, thank you so much MrSprank for all your help!

STAGE 3 (NEED HELP!)

CX Lighting Catback, Walbrow FP (ItsMe modded), Turbo, Injectors, Manifold?

THE QUESTIONS

Can I wait to catback till I install a larger turbo? Around the forum it sounds like only small gains are to be had when adding a catback with a stock turbo/stage2.

Do I have anything to gain by installing the Walbrow FP while still VF40/stock injectors? It sounds like a FP upgrade to stage 2/VF40 is unnecessary and that I should FP when I upgrade turbo/injectors.

What should I *NOT* do to a DD when going stage 3?

Headers seem to have longevity issues, are headers and a manifold big juju when adding a bigger turbo?

Any other advice would be appreciated. You can only read so many 100s of threads till the time comes to ask for help.

A verdict of "do not go stage 3 for DD reliability w/o internal mods" is also acceptable!

Special thanks to Xenonk, ItsMe, Boostjunkie, Mr Sprank, Infamous1, Fishbone and all the rest at LegacyGT who’s wealth of information, patience and knowledge and efforts help to guide my ride.

I would set my goal at a solid stage 2 set up and see how you like it from there. A catback will sound cool but it is alot of cash and noise for 5-10hp.

A good fuel pump is always a good upgrade regardless if your on stock injectors. 300-325whp would be my goal for max reliability vs fun factor. You wont get to 300 with that turbo. Remember more power mods, more NVH, more wear and tear and more maintenence needed. An 18g or a 68HTA type turbo with the fmic will hit 325 with a nice tune.

Your going to need a clutch past stage 2.

I daily drive my 400 awhp 05 5 speed, which is still on the original OEM clutch at 56k miles. It's very tame and well behaved until you ask it to misbehave. Still gets average/good gas mileage, and besides the loud exhaust is a great sleeper. My wife drives it like she stole it - funny how that rush tends to change a person...

Good luck with the car!

I would throw the stage 2+ stuff on and then see if your fiancee is comfortable driving something more powerful. I would focus more on a fat torque band for a DD and worry a little less about peak HP. FWIW, I went with a VF39+FMIC for my daily driven LGT. It should make plenty of power down low for daily driving and autoxing and just a tad bit more top end. A buddy of mine dailys a rotated GT30R+built motor+alky injection. What is bearable is different for everyone.

Like I said, throw on the stage 2+ stuff and see what your fiancee thinks.

I would set my goal at a solid stage 2 set up and see how you like it from there. A catback will sound cool but it is alot of cash and noise for 5-10hp.

 

A good fuel pump is always a good upgrade regardless if your on stock injectors. 300-325whp would be my goal for max reliability vs fun factor. You wont get to 300 with that turbo. Remember more power mods, more NVH, more wear and tear and more maintenence needed. An 18g or a 68HTA type turbo with the fmic will hit 325 with a nice tune.

 

Your going to need a clutch past stage 2.

Sounds like I am on the right track and that I should not shy away from an 18g in the future if stage 2 is not enough. As for a clutch - do you mean someting more than the stage 1 exedy? I think it has 325-350tq clamp force.

What do you run for an intake? Just to forewarn, a short ram intake (especially the Typhoon) produce a sound not many would describe as pleasant . If the GF/W is driving it she might find it annoying.

Just no "fast and furious"/ricey bs is her thing... No mouthpieces to go down the road, no yelling to converse at freeway speeds, no bov full atmosphere making every teenage idiot try to race us pulling out of the gas station. No vinyl product names on door. No big shift light (lol)...

And sure Etank, if it doesn't work out, we can give it a shot!

:lol:

I think it has 325-350tq clamp force.

Clutches are rated at the fly. It will most likely slip after Stage 2.

get rides in various cars with various setups.

otherwise you'll always wonder what if....

i can honestly say... i probably couldnt deal with much more turbo lag than i have now, but also i wouldnt want any less power. so looks like i picked the right turbo for me.

whp numbers mean nothing. what you really need is to feel the power to be happy, i think.

yeah. the numbers dont mean anything.

it's about timeslips

Looks like you did your homework pretty well. On the fuel pump, I've got one installed on my stg2 setup and it makes no difference. However, with the plans of going stg3 soon, it's one less thing I have to install later. On the headers/manifold, I'm just going with the Grimmspeed Xpipe and ported stock manifolds. I personally like and do not want to change how my car sounds, but would enjoy a little wider powerband and quicker spool in what will be a laggy turbo. Headers, even UEL, can change that boxer rumble.

You are planning exactly what I planned. Step up the power slowly as time and funds allow while in the meantime doing the research to make it exactly what you're looking for. I'm actually going to step up to a more aggressive stg2 before going with the stg3 even though I have literally every part for the stg3 except the intercooler which we both put a deposit down on. Keep us posted.

Looks like you did your homework pretty well. On the headers/manifold, I'm just going with the Grimmspeed Xpipe and ported stock manifolds.

I tried to read a lot of threads before posting. I have been a lurker for a while.

I was thinking Xpipe and ported stock manifolds if I felt like going that route - I guess the idea of having to change my headers once a year or so when they crack doesn't do it for me for a DD looking for more power not maximum power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawl http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif

get rides in various cars with various setups.

otherwise you'll always wonder what if....

i can honestly say... i probably couldnt deal with much more turbo lag than i have now, but also i wouldnt want any less power. so looks like i picked the right turbo for me.

whp numbers mean nothing. what you really need is to feel the power to be happy, i think.

It would be HUGE to get a link to your setup/dyno if it is in the turning/turbo list or a list of your mods, otherwise I have no idea what was right for you LAWL, WHEN ARE WE GETTING TOGETHER SO I CAN GO FOR A RIDE IN YOUR LGT?

I've got a DD (62 miles each way on my commute). I'm at Stage 2 now and have been for about 15k miles (car has 80k on it now). My setup is: Perrin TMIC, Perrin Catted DP, Perrin Mid/Y, AVO Panel filter, AVO MAF hose and as of yesterday a VF52. Infamous1 is doning my tunning. My impressions are this. The car still sounds stock and is very driveable in all conditions, stop and go, highway cruising and WOT. I'm still getting around 27 mpg on the highway. This board is a great source of both good ideas, bad ideas and used parts Other than DP everthing was bought used.

I'm planning on supsension work, sways and springs, and some upgraded brake lines and pads. Next year I'll do a fuel pump and injectors to get the most out of the setup. All in all I'm very happy with the mods and can't wait until my tune is done so I can really see what the VF52 can do.

- - - U P D A T E - - - U P D A T E - - - U P D A T E - - -

Since last time...

My stage 2 budget is $1500. That is all I want to spend on power, for now, but I do want to make the most of it.

We all remember that I grabbed a M2 UpPipe to get rid of my nasty pre-turbo cat, and complete my plans for 3" breathing. I will install at the same time as the DP. The egt bung plug leaks like crazy but I can just weld it sealed (unless there is a reason not to). I ordered this on EBAY for $30 total.

The Perrin Short Ram I purchased used from another member for $80.

I was planning to order an ERZ downpipe from ERZ and a 3" to 2.5" flange to mate to my stock catback for a total of around $360 shipped. The great guys over at SUBIMODS are running a special a catted TURBOBACK (ERZ DP+Gimmick Catback) for $600 shipped... Well, that was what I call a no-brainer. I ordered it!

I have ordered Bryans' (ItsMe) FMIC for $750. Lets remember that stage 3 is an eventual goal and that the price of the FMIC is similar to the price of a new aftermarket TMIC. Considering the install is clean and requires only a little cutting, the car is still easy to return to stock. If a $300 TMIC was an alternative, I may have taken it but only time will tell if I make good use of the FMIC with a bigger turbo.

UP $30

Turboback $600

Perrin SR $80

FMIC $750

Infamous Tune Special $175

Well thats just a tad over $1500, so my project is out of money. Certainly I am going to add things as time goes on (like a oil catch can!) but these parts are going to arrive in the next week or so and it is going to be time to install, video, photo, and TUNE. I think that I have all the supporting mods I need to start saving fun money for stage 3: fuel pump, injectors, turbo this summer.

EDIT: This could have been done for $750 less without the FMIC. Stage 2 can be a problem for stock TMIC. My fiancee drives this car a lot and I can't have it give us problems when she is on the road alone, which means I was not going to stage it at all without a TMIC. On the cheap you can ziptie, epoxy or jb-weld the stock one simply enough, but I gave up "rigging" things when I wrecked my Honda.

Thanks a LOT to my subscribers, I am rapidly moving toward install photos, videos and how-to's with several other members of the forum. Hopefully I will be able to put together some material that will be easy reference material.

I like this thread. I am in the same boat. I look, research, look, research until my eyes want to pop out. I used to have an Sti so I would like the same DD power as you, but I just purchased my Leggy recently and I don't want it to go pop! I know you have to pay to play, but you can ride the line a little in my mind

I am happy to be your test vehicle. This is exactly what I am hoping for, that people who are in my shoes will be able to learn something from my experience (be that good, bad or whatever!).

Here is my Exedy Stage 1 Clutch review:

http://legacygt.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=322&sort=2&cat=57&page=1

DBA 4000 reviews

http://legacygt.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=187&sort=2&cat=38&page=1

Hawk HPS pad reviews

http://legacygt.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=183&sort=2&cat=23&page=1

$600 TURBOBACK CATTED EXHAUST DEAL (ERZ+Gimmick) EDIT: THIS DEAL IS NOW $650! It was too good to last!

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129229

Bryan/ItsMe FMIC Thread (one of them)

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126381&highlight=low+cost+fmic

(SPECIAL NOTE: There is a *USED* perrin TMIC with bent fins for $550! To me that makes the FMIC for $750 a no-brainer).

Anything else I can show you?

LaLGT

 

Bryan/ItsMe FMIC Thread (one of them)

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126381&highlight=low+cost+fmic

(SPECIAL NOTE: There is a *USED* perrin TMIC with bent fins for $550! To me that makes the FMIC for $750 a no-brainer).

 

 

LaLGT

That TMIC will sell as well, no problem. I was ready to buy one until Bryan announced that the FMIC will retain fog lights, then the extra couple hundred was worth it for as little modification was involved. Not to mention, the FMIC is new and basically the same price as a new TMIC. No-brainer is right especially when one considers the turbo I've got in waiting.

Anyway, you'll have a pretty solid stg 2 setup there and will suffice for a while. I've been stg 2 for over a year now and it's still thrilling, but still not fast enough. Keep us updated.

That TMIC will sell as well, no problem. I was ready to buy one until Bryan announced that the FMIC will retain fog lights, then the extra couple hundred was worth it for as little modification was involved. Not to mention, the FMIC is new and basically the same price as a new TMIC. No-brainer is right especially when one considers the turbo I've got in waiting.

 

Anyway, you'll have a pretty solid stg 2 setup there and will suffice for a while. I've been stg 2 for over a year now and it's still thrilling, but still not fast enough. Keep us updated.

What turbo:wub: do you have waiting you tease!?!

The vf39/43 is perfect for those looking for a solid 300whp coupled with the FMIC. Honestly stg 2 will get old pretty fast.

ALL HAIL Lord Infamous1: thank you for your post/sub, words and soon... Tune!

You already know I want to go stage 3 but I am planning my wedding in September. Hopefully I will have free cash by April. All these damn down payments nine months in advance!!!

A FMIC will make going stage 3 too easy to resist. Turbo OPTIONS!!! I am having a very hard time deciding on a turbo (I figured that was something that you and I would talk about when we did the stage 2 tune). It was so much easier to decide when I needed a stock-style bolt-on.

Turbos that I am considering:

Evo Big 16g

Seems like 300whp is possible with this with fast spool. Seems like it runs out of breath up top. THE PRICE IS VERY APPEALING under $600 new

TD05/18g 7mm

Popular upgrade. Great price.

TD06/18g 7mm

Popular upgrade. Slightly more - seems like it is worth it.

VF39/43

Sexy but is it too small? Seems like it runs out of breath up top. More autocross style?

VF52

If I am going to upgrade and have a FMIC is there any reason to even consider a VF52 in the face of a Big16G for the same price?

LaLGT

ALL HAIL Lord Infamous1: thank you for your post/sub, words and soon... Tune!

Ahh im overated, tell that to my girl...

 

You already know I want to go stage 3 but I am planning my wedding in September. Hopefully I will have free cash by April. All these damn down payments nine months in advance!!!

 

A FMIC will make going stage 3 too easy to resist. Turbo OPTIONS!!! I am having a very hard time deciding on a turbo (I figured that was something that you and I would talk about when we did the stage 2 tune). It was so much easier to decide when I needed a stock-style bolt-on.

 

Turbos that I am considering:

 

Evo Big 16g

Seems like 300whp is possible with this with fast spool. Seems like it runs out of breath up top. THE PRICE IS VERY APPEALING under $600 new

Might be a tad bit too small, might as well go vf series.

 

TD05/18g 7mm

Popular upgrade. Great price.

Decent, but still might as well go vf series.

 

TD06/18g 7mm

Popular upgrade. Slightly more - seems like it is worth it.

Will provide a nice fat midrange, will require injectors. Might as well go the 68HTA route.

 

VF39/43

Sexy but is it too small? Seems like it runs out of breath up top. More autocross style?

Only too small for the folks that brought the wrong car looking for V8 power

 

VF52

If I am going to upgrade and have a FMIC is there any reason to even consider a VF52 in the face of a Big16G for the same price?

With a FMIC this shouldn't even be considered...

 

LaLGT