The Subie Owner who cried "RAPE!"

Let's face it. Most of us have been there at least once.

With a family, a hectic school schedule, a heavy workload, business deadlines to make, or circumstances to plan for, some of us have resulted to go to the dealer.

In our best efforts we have justified our reasons to go:

1) *Free Loaner Car. *(although not really free)

2) Warranty.

3) Guaranteed and Quality Service. (No Worries from presumed highest of quality in automotive techs who all graduated Magnum Cum Audi).

4) Convenience.

Today, as a recommendation from a check up after a recall appointment, the service adviser recommended me to have a brake flush for a 2011 Subaru Legacy 2.5i with 30,430 miles on it.

The cost minus 7% sales tax was $155!!!

RAPE!!!!

Needless to say, I refused the 30k service fees as I learned from this forum and reading numerous posts and feeds that some of the maintenance is complete BS.

Sick of the needless greed of some of our Subaru Dealers, I am starting this post to hopefully help out every Subaru Owner to make sound financial decisions for their cars regarding maintenance so that no one else will suffer the tremendous burdens of being financially RAPED!

We need to save our money to put into expensive mods instead.

Any suggestions or comments are welcomed...

Oye!!! Yeah, I did the dealer thing with my last 2 cars.....and got raped several times cuz I was too busy and lazy. The Subie is only going to the dealer for warranty work....period. I am capable of everything else but charging the a/c system myself. Moar monies for mods. Woot!

On a side note, I did a full brake flush when I did my SS brake lines. The flush itself cost me $15 for 1 liter of ATE Super Blue and took approximately 45 minutes...including jacking up the car and removing the wheels....all in a leisurely fashion.

nothing new here. Most shops/dealerships will recommend various services and flushes to their customers even if its not urgently needed. It's how they make money. Its up to the car owner to be well informed and ultimately choose what services you buy. Next time a service writer recommends a service or fluid flush, have him bring you out to the car to physically show you first hand why it needs it.

power steering fluid dirty?...show me

belts worn?....show me

tires worn?....show me

you get the idea.

its not rocket science to have them back up their recommendations with proof.

You can't go pulling out your wallet every time the service adviser barks.

It sounds like you've already learned to avoid mileage-menu based service. Now you need to learn a few other things.

Warranties. You can't invalidate your warranty by doing your own maintenance or by having an independent mechanic do the work. In the USA, that's the law. Note: you can invalidate it with modifications, but that's a whole other ball o' wax.

Another bit worth learning: The not-free loaner, the quality of service and convenient location all serve to jack up the cost-per-hour that the dealer bills you. It's not like they can teleport your car to India for service and beam it back after. If we had that, we wouldn't need cars to begin with.

I'm guessing they didn't charge you much more than an hour of labor, something for the new brake fluid, and something for disposing of the old brake fluid. The charge seems about right for that.

More learning. If you take the time to learn what the car needs and when it needs it, you can be your own service adviser. Take the car to anyone you trust, tell them what you want done, and pay for only that work. They'll still have to charge enough to cover local labor & rents, but you'll be skipping a lot of the BS.

Lastly, if you learn to do the work yourself, you might be able to make the math work there. When I lived in NY I couldn't afford working garage space, so I didn't do much of my own maintenance. Now having moved way out of the city, the math works in my favor to do it myself when possible.

nothing new here. Most shops/dealerships will recommend various services and flushes to their customers even if its not urgently needed. It's how they make money. Its up to the car owner to be well informed and ultimately choose what services you buy. Next time a service writer recommends a service or fluid flush, have him bring you out to the car to physically show you first had why it needs it.

 

power steering fluid dirty?...show me

belts worn?....show me

tires worn?....show me

you get the idea.

 

its not rocket science to have them back up their recommendations with proof.

Thanks man.... I appreciate it. I need to be better informed and learn more what good fluids look like and what worn parts look like.

I admit that I am not the most informed person when it comes to cars but I'm striving to get better and learn so I don't get raped that often.

I see that you are a knowledgeable person being a racer and all. What advice do you have for the rest of us who do not have the automotive smarts that you have?

My Dad wasn't much help growing up with cars. Mr. Business knew about business not cars.

RAPE is the price I paid for being ignorant. I want to learn enough to not be raped anymore. I can't tell you how disgusted I feel. $155 will not be the end of me but I'm sure I'm not the only owner who has been "raped" too...

My Dad wasn't much help growing up with cars. Mr. Business knew about business not cars.

At some point, it makes sense to focus on the business and ignore the car. If your business earns you enough, you'll stop worrying about getting fleeced on car repairs. If at that point it still bugs you, you'll probably just buy whatever car needs the least repairs, and replace it often enough that your only interaction with the dealer is dropping the old one off and picking the new one up every 2-3 years.

It's not easy to calculate when you hit that point- the math is different for everyone.

+1 on that comment. The only reason why I learned how to do so many things was because I was a poor college student and had to learn or couldn't afford a repair. Honestly speaking sometimes they say $55 for an oil change, and I'm happy to get someone to do it since the synthetic now already is costing me $30, with even a $5 filter, it's not worth my time.

What is also golden is if you can find a reputable mechanic... which I have also met along all my gearhead experiences. If they are good, they will charge minimal labor and will also let you either buy your own parts, or let you take advantage of the shop discount. For example my rear wheel bearing went out on me. My "friend/mechanic" said... call up the subaru dealer, let them know you are ordering from my shop, go pay cash. Bring it back, give me $40 labor and he'll do it all. Hell yes I didn't want to bang at the hub to try to get it out myself for $40. He put it on the lift, used a big f'ing slide hammer and got it out for me!

Most fluids are dirty when they are BLACK, ie lots of crap in them. Go buy a jug of the new fluid, they are almost always translucent/clear with the tint of color... but older cars will dirty up the fluids as soon as you get it in. Oil, for example... hard to change the oil, drain it and keep it clear unless your motor is really really clean to start with. If you change your oil fast, ie every 3K miles it will get cleaner and cleaner which is nice.

Most shops go by a "book" for time, they just multiply that time by their hourly rate and that's how they get to it. If you think about a brake flush, then it probably is 1.5 hrs of shop time plus materials. A flush technically will run a ton of fluid by, not just enough to fill it with new fluid. Even getting a car up on a lift and taking off 4 tires is a good 30 minutes if you aren't trying to race against time... then you have to flush the system, and put everything back together.. $155 isn't all that bad. $100.. yeah that would be better.. or $30 and your own time, that would be great! 1-2 hrs of your own time however.

7 What advice do you have for the rest of us who do not have the automotive smarts that you have?

 

 

RAPE is the price I paid for being ignorant. I want to learn enough to not be raped anymore. I can't tell you how disgusted I feel. $155 will not be the end of me but I'm sure I'm not the only owner who has been "raped" too...

you dont have to know anything about cars to BS check a service writer. If a fluid is purported to be dirty, have him show you what clean fluid looks like, and then the dirty fluid coming directly out of your car. Worn belts, tires, air filters, brake pads, rotors, bushings and most anything else are obvious to even a complete car novice and are easily confirmed on sight if pointed out, especially when compared to a new one. And even then if you aren't sure, you can always come back to the dealer to have them do things if you wish to consult the forum here first.

Today, as a recommendation from a check up after a recall appointment, the service adviser recommended me to have a brake flush for a 2011 Subaru Legacy 2.5i with 30,430 miles on it.

The cost minus 7% sales tax was $155!!!

 

RAPE!!!!

 

Needless to say, I refused the 30k service fees as I learned from this forum and reading numerous posts and feeds that some of the maintenance is complete BS.

 

Sick of the needless greed of some of our Subaru Dealers, I am starting this post to hopefully help out every Subaru Owner to make sound financial decisions for their cars regarding maintenance so that no one else will suffer the tremendous burdens of being financially RAPED!

 

We need to save our money to put into expensive mods instead.

 

Any suggestions or comments are welcomed...

So you think that flushing the brake fluid every 30k miles is BS? Interesting take. I prefer to keep my brakes functioning by flushing out moisture laden old fluid every 2-3years. To each his own I guess.

Flush the brake fluid, I guess some day I may do that on wagon, the fluid has been in there 9 years now. Build date of May 04.

Brakes feel great, BTW.

Flush the brake fluid, I guess some day I may do that on wagon, the fluid has been in there 9 years now. Build date of May 04.

 

Brakes feel great, BTW.

^^^This is why I don't buy used cars.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic and can absorb water even through the brake fluid lines REGARDLESS of mileage. Brake fluid should be changed every 2-3 years regardless of mileage or how it looks.

They don't call 'em 'Stealerships' for nothing. They are there to make money just like every other business, but they differ in that they believe that everybody driving their make of car should be their customer. They take advantage of consumers all the time.

I'm not sure changing the brake fluid is a good enough reason to not buy used. I'll never buy a new car again. Let someone else take the huge wet bite in the ass of depreciation. I'd rather buy a car a year old than deal with losing thousands of dollars just because I want to be the one to put the first 50 miles on it. I'd never drive a German car unless it was under warranty though, so that limits it to either certified pre-owned with a warranty or new, so no Germans in my driveway. I'll stick with good ole reliable Japanese cars. I've put 180k on a Honda before without ever taking it to the dealership once, so used quality is way better than new crap if you ask me.

I don't think that price rape at all really.

For a 2009, the FSM says you need 16.9oz of fluid for the total brake system. One bottle of subaru brake fluid is 12oz, so you need 2 bottles to do the complete job. Fred beans sells one bottle of the fluid for $9, figure $18 for the fluid. Chances are they charged you 1hr of labor to do the job, which I think is $100 or so around here, it could be a little more than that. Factor in the shop fees that dealers always charge, lets say $7 to make things nice and even, and you're looking at $125. So $155 sounds like its a little more than it should be, but a far cry from rape in my opinion.

Rape is when an acura dealership tried to charge me $70 for each tpms sensor when the msrp on the sensors was $35, multiplied by 4 and I was extremely upset with them. I figured they might charge me as much as $45 per senso and I would've been fine with that, but not twice the msrp.

My dealer (who has been pretty good to me over the years) recommended replacing the brake rotors on my Outback 5 years ago. I still have the same rotors Heck, I think the pads have only been changed once.

I like the idea of an "LGT Forum Recommended Maintenance Schedule"

They don't call 'em 'Stealerships' for nothing. They are there to make money just like every other business, but they differ in that they believe that everybody driving their make of car should be their customer. They take advantage of consumers all the time.

 

I'm not sure changing the brake fluid is a good enough reason to not buy used. I'll never buy a new car again. Let someone else take the huge wet bite in the ass of depreciation. I'd rather buy a car a year old than deal with losing thousands of dollars just because I want to be the one to put the first 50 miles on it. I'd never drive a German car unless it was under warranty though, so that limits it to either certified pre-owned with a warranty or new, so no Germans in my driveway. I'll stick with good ole reliable Japanese cars. I've put 180k on a Honda before without ever taking it to the dealership once, so used quality is way better than new crap if you ask me.

It's not just brake fluid. If someone is so cheap as to not change brake fluid every so often, what other maintenance items have they neglected? I have heard enough horror stories and have seen enough examples on the road that I am pretty wary of buying used.

Read this this reddit site for a little while and you won't want to potentially buy one of these ticking time bombs either.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/

You are in North Jersey, why didn't you come to us? We are local and will take very good care of you. We've been enthusiasts and have been servicing Subies since we started the business in my parent's driveway 13 years ago...

Just reach out to us and we'll be here.

-Mike Paisan

AZP's First Private Track Event, June 19 at NJMP Thunderbolt $315 including Classroom and Mentor!

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11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

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Oh and a brake flush every 2-3 years or 30k miles is very important, brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture. This moisture isn't a problem in the fluid until you have to make several panic stops on the highway and overheat the brakes and then the fluid has air pockets because the moisture in the fluid has evaporated inside the lines...

-Mike Paisan

AZP's First Private Track Event, June 19 at NJMP Thunderbolt $315 including Classroom and Mentor!

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"