2008 specB Nightmare

I'm a college student who has always wanted a turbo subaru but never really liked the boy racer appearance of the wrx / sti. I've always browsed the forums trying to get enough knowledge about the Legacy to where I was ready to buy one. After about two years of searching for a specB and finding that most of them, or even Legacy GTs for that matter, seemed to be overpriced for the mileage (I know, I know it's a Subaru- still can't fathom paying more than $10-12 grand for a car with 100000+ miles, especially an FI performance car), or too heavily modified. I'd rather take a stock car that's been well maintained and do what I want rather than worry about someone else's mods and whether or not they beat on the car.

However, I ended up finding one and my impulsivity and eagerness led me to pull the trigger and buy the car.

What I found, or thought I found was a lightly modified, clean, low mileage 2008 Legacy specB. The car had 52000 miles on it and the only modifications were an IAG AOS, Grimmspeed EBCS, Custom intake, and Pink sTi springs up front. It also had an opensource tune from Turbotime. The AOS, EBCS and tune were part of their 'Stage One' package.

After seeing some videos and a number of pictures of the car, I flew down to look at the car. Other than some dirt, dings and scratches, the body and paint were clean, there was no rust anywhere and the engine bay looked fairly clean. No leaks or any immediate deal breakers

.

It was then that I started to learn more about the Car's history. The previous owner had in fact modified the car and returned it to stock when the current owner bought the car. :/ I looked further and saw the bumper was trimmed for a front mount, and I was then informed the car had a VF52 that was removed in favor of the stock VF46. I started having some doubts and wondered why the VF52 wasn't kept on the car. Did it blow up in extraordinary fashion sending metal through the intercooler?

Yet, my giddiness and excitement overwhelmed my brain's logical reasoning that should've told me to walk away.

Previous to this, I've only owned one subaru and it was an NA outback far from the turbo'd beauty I was now looking at. I thought i knew what to look for but I guess I didn't catch everything.

I took the car for an hour or so of test driving. It felt great. Steering was on point, it had boatloads of power, the intake sounded great and the whoosh of the turbo was addicting. I didn't push the car too hard but covered curvy roads, some city driving and on the freeway. It performed as I would expect the car to. However, when we finished the test drive I checked the oil and noticed it was low.....

Mind you, I foolishly did not check the oil beforehand because he picked me up in the car from the airport, so i expected he had checked the oil. At the time it didn't concern me too much as he said the car was due for an oil change, and it was only about half a quart to fill it back up. another point i failed to understand was that the almost full tank of gas had been sitting in the car for months. I know I made rookie mistakes but I ama subaru rookie I guess and hindsight is 20/20. Yes i should've had a leak down and compression test done

Fast forward through my long winded story to my purchase of the car. I paid what I thought was reasonable given the car's history and a few minor things it needed (like a donut gasket in the exhaust) and left with a smile on my face. I changed the oil in an o'reilly's parking lot with some Rotella t6 before my 400 mile journey home.

About 20 minutes into my journey i notice whisps of what appears to be smoke coming from the passenger side of the car. Right around where the donut gasket that is shot is. I immediately text the guy telling him if my concern and he says he's never noticed smoke and that it's probably condensation coming from the exhaust leak. I figure this could be feasible as it was around 15 degrees on this particular day.

I'm still concerned and I drive to Turbotime to get a quick look at it. They assure me it's just a leak in the exhaust , and up to this point i hadn't seen clouds of smoke or plumes out the exhaust so i left and journeyed on. On the ride back I mostly kept the car in 5th or 6th, didn't lug it or do any highway pulls and only shifted into fourth to pass maybe half a dozen times. As i went on i thought i started to notice more smoke now coming out of the exhaust.

i stopped to check fluid levels and all was well. Still concerned I texted the po about the smoke and speculated what it could be. I feared rings but didn't see any blueish smoke so then thought maybe a head gasket ? But I know the turbo cars rarely see headgasket failure especially at 50k miles.

However, the seller told me he would refund me the cost of repairs if that were the case(red flag) but i was already 250 miles or so out. So i completed the drive and once in my garage tried to get a better picture. I wanted to do a compression test but was dettered in my first few attempts to get that passenger rear coil out ( which really isn't that hard as it turns out)

Well, I found out that the vent for the AOS let out very close to where the donut gasket was. And that the smoke was coming from the AOS. Immediately I feared the worst and thought it could only be failing rings. I'm not sure if blowby would ultimately come out the vent but my basic understanding of the AOS led me to believe that. Still there was no noticeable drop in how the car idled and ran. I figured maybe the tune was too rich? So i drove the car to my dads house to let him have a look. He was into air cooled veedubs but didn't really have much knowledge of the modern boxer, with a turbo slapped on it. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary and I went home.

The next day as i took the car out to grab coffee I gave it some gas and something didn't feel right, it felt like I imagine a boost leak would feel like. It felt down on power.

I took it to my buddy's garage where he has a lift. Over the next two days I pulled the turbo and in the process noticed the inlet hose was tearing and the throttle body hose rubber ends looked like they were going. I had the turbo looked at by subaru techs because i thought there was some shaft play but was assured the turbo was good. It was also at this point i realized it was a VF40 not the VF46 i thought would come on my car..

After I ordered new hoses and hooked everything back up the car was worse. The aos was smoking considerably and my first drive around the block, the car would not get into boost before bogging. I figured something must've not been hooked up correctly because i hadn't driven the car at all since parking it in the garage. Literally the only driving I had done since getting the car was to my dads, back home, and to my buddy's garage. Not at any point did i push the car especially when i began to notice problems. My lack of experience with these cars kept me hopeful and the voices of car guys who didn't have a clue about subaru's assured me the car wouldn't run that well with a cracked ring and that the turbo was probably bad or there wa a boost leak.

Fast forward to today I finally determined I would get the compression test done. I got all the plugs pulled in an hour with a few beers for each side of the motor:lol:

On the drivers side i got

130 up front

and...

40psi in the rear

Throughout the whole troubleshooting I kept the seller posted on what i was finding out and what i was going to do. Initially he maintained that he would help pay for any major unexpected repairs. But then he changed his mind and said that he didn't think he could help me because he never saw any smoke and that the car was sold with no warranty as is. That's all true and i felt shafted. Now i had a car I barely drove 500 miles and was blown up. I did not push the car past it's limits, especially once i noticed smoke. It's my belief that low octane degraded fuel combined with low oil situation, and the previous owner's probable overboosting general neglect caused ringland failure.

After sending long messages to the seller, he and I have come to an agreement and he claims that he will take the car back and refund my money. This is a precarious situation and I'm going to maintain possession of the title until receiving payment if I end up returning the car (shipping it back at my expense)

don't let your excitement about a potential new car( a beautiful DGM leggy especially) cloud your logic and judgement. Hopefully this will be resolved, if not- expect a build to come soon!

Also i'm expecting a good bit of newbie hate for this but such is the nature of being a newbie --

Evan

This sounds particularly similar to my story. White smoke coming from exhaust. Engine failure. At least you are lucky enough to receive a refund if that pulls through. Good luck!

Welcome to the forum! A rebuild will be fun, if you have the time and money.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

anyone got some cliffs?

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/turntablemessiah/gifs/2ea19a65.gif

That's a lot of meat in that post, but as much as this?

http://r1.washingtoncitypaper.com/files/base/scomm/wcp/image/2016/04/640w/assets_articles_48088_straw_stick_brick_sandwich.jpg

anyone got some cliffs?

 

 

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/turntablemessiah/gifs/2ea19a65.gif

+1 LOL, need a TL;DR version please...

I'm a college student who has always wanted a turbo subaru but never really liked the boy racer appearance of the wrx / sti. I've always browsed the forums trying to get enough knowledge about the Legacy to where I was ready to buy one. After about two years of searching for a specB and finding that most of them, or even Legacy GTs for that matter, seemed to be overpriced for the mileage (I know, I know it's a Subaru- still can't fathom paying more than $10-12 grand for a car with 100000+ miles, especially an FI performance car), or too heavily modified. I'd rather take a stock car that's been well maintained and do what I want rather than worry about someone else's mods and whether or not they beat on the car.

However, I ended up finding one and my impulsivity and eagerness led me to pull the trigger and buy the car.

 

What I found, or thought I found was a lightly modified, clean, low mileage 2008 Legacy specB. The car had 52000 miles on it and the only modifications were an IAG AOS, Grimmspeed EBCS, Custom intake, and Pink sTi springs up front. It also had an opensource tune from Turbotime. The AOS, EBCS and tune were part of their 'Stage One' package.

After seeing some videos and a number of pictures of the car, I flew down to look at the car. Other than some dirt, dings and scratches, the body and paint were clean, there was no rust anywhere and the engine bay looked fairly clean. No leaks or any immediate deal breakers

 

 

.

 

It was then that I started to learn more about the Car's history. The previous owner had in fact modified the car and returned it to stock when the current owner bought the car. :/ I looked further and saw the bumper was trimmed for a front mount, and I was then informed the car had a VF52 that was removed in favor of the stock VF46. I started having some doubts and wondered why the VF52 wasn't kept on the car. Did it blow up in extraordinary fashion sending metal through the intercooler?

Yet, my giddiness and excitement overwhelmed my brain's logical reasoning that should've told me to walk away.

 

 

Previous to this, I've only owned one subaru and it was an NA outback far from the turbo'd beauty I was now looking at. I thought i knew what to look for but I guess I didn't catch everything.

I took the car for an hour or so of test driving. It felt great. Steering was on point, it had boatloads of power, the intake sounded great and the whoosh of the turbo was addicting. I didn't push the car too hard but covered curvy roads, some city driving and on the freeway. It performed as I would expect the car to. However, when we finished the test drive I checked the oil and noticed it was low.....

Mind you, I foolishly did not check the oil beforehand because he picked me up in the car from the airport, so i expected he had checked the oil. At the time it didn't concern me too much as he said the car was due for an oil change, and it was only about half a quart to fill it back up. another point i failed to understand was that the almost full tank of gas had been sitting in the car for months. I know I made rookie mistakes but I ama subaru rookie I guess and hindsight is 20/20. Yes i should've had a leak down and compression test done

Fast forward through my long winded story to my purchase of the car. I paid what I thought was reasonable given the car's history and a few minor things it needed (like a donut gasket in the exhaust) and left with a smile on my face. I changed the oil in an o'reilly's parking lot with some Rotella t6 before my 400 mile journey home.

 

About 20 minutes into my journey i notice whisps of what appears to be smoke coming from the passenger side of the car. Right around where the donut gasket that is shot is. I immediately text the guy telling him if my concern and he says he's never noticed smoke and that it's probably condensation coming from the exhaust leak. I figure this could be feasible as it was around 15 degrees on this particular day.

 

I'm still concerned and I drive to Turbotime to get a quick look at it. They assure me it's just a leak in the exhaust , and up to this point i hadn't seen clouds of smoke or plumes out the exhaust so i left and journeyed on. On the ride back I mostly kept the car in 5th or 6th, didn't lug it or do any highway pulls and only shifted into fourth to pass maybe half a dozen times. As i went on i thought i started to notice more smoke now coming out of the exhaust.

i stopped to check fluid levels and all was well. Still concerned I texted the po about the smoke and speculated what it could be. I feared rings but didn't see any blueish smoke so then thought maybe a head gasket ? But I know the turbo cars rarely see headgasket failure especially at 50k miles.

 

However, the seller told me he would refund me the cost of repairs if that were the case(red flag) but i was already 250 miles or so out. So i completed the drive and once in my garage tried to get a better picture. I wanted to do a compression test but was dettered in my first few attempts to get that passenger rear coil out ( which really isn't that hard as it turns out)

 

Well, I found out that the vent for the AOS let out very close to where the donut gasket was. And that the smoke was coming from the AOS. Immediately I feared the worst and thought it could only be failing rings. I'm not sure if blowby would ultimately come out the vent but my basic understanding of the AOS led me to believe that. Still there was no noticeable drop in how the car idled and ran. I figured maybe the tune was too rich? So i drove the car to my dads house to let him have a look. He was into air cooled veedubs but didn't really have much knowledge of the modern boxer, with a turbo slapped on it. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary and I went home.

 

The next day as i took the car out to grab coffee I gave it some gas and something didn't feel right, it felt like I imagine a boost leak would feel like. It felt down on power.

I took it to my buddy's garage where he has a lift. Over the next two days I pulled the turbo and in the process noticed the inlet hose was tearing and the throttle body hose rubber ends looked like they were going. I had the turbo looked at by subaru techs because i thought there was some shaft play but was assured the turbo was good. It was also at this point i realized it was a VF40 not the VF46 i thought would come on my car..

After I ordered new hoses and hooked everything back up the car was worse. The aos was smoking considerably and my first drive around the block, the car would not get into boost before bogging. I figured something must've not been hooked up correctly because i hadn't driven the car at all since parking it in the garage. Literally the only driving I had done since getting the car was to my dads, back home, and to my buddy's garage. Not at any point did i push the car especially when i began to notice problems. My lack of experience with these cars kept me hopeful and the voices of car guys who didn't have a clue about subaru's assured me the car wouldn't run that well with a cracked ring and that the turbo was probably bad or there wa a boost leak.

 

Fast forward to today I finally determined I would get the compression test done. I got all the plugs pulled in an hour with a beer for each side of the motor:lol:

On the drivers side i got

130 up front

 

and...

 

40psi in the rear

 

Throughout the whole troubleshooting I kept the seller posted on what i was finding out and what i was going to do. Initially he maintained that he would help pay for any major unexpected repairs. But then he changed his mind and said that he didn't think he could help me because he never saw any smoke and that the car was sold with no warranty as is. That's all true and i felt shafted. Now i had a car I barely drove 500 miles and was blown up. I did not push the car past it's limits, especially once i noticed smoke. It's my belief that low octane degraded fuel combined with low oil situation, and the previous owner's probable overboosting general neglect caused ringland failure.

 

After sending long messages to the seller, he and I have come to an agreement and he claims that he will take the car back and refund my money. This is a precarious situation and I'm going to maintain possession of the title until receiving payment if I end up returning the car (shipping it back at my expense)

 

don't let your excitement about a potential new car( a beautiful DGM leggy especially) cloud your logic and judgement. Hopefully this will be resolved, if not- expect a build to come soon!

 

Also i'm expecting a good bit of newbie hate for this but such is the nature of being a newbie --

 

Evan

Going through similar shit, mine was never modded, completely stock with every service record imaginable... 1 old guy owner, took it to dealer, new tb, new turbo... every sign pointed that it was the perfect car.... 800 miles after purchase the turbo grenades itself, and the oil control valve exploded all over right side of my engine... I think these particular cars are just colossal pieces of shit

@05redLGT: Easy there, squirrelly Dan, them's fightin' words.

These cars can be incredibly frustrating, I know. I've been chasing issues for months after blowing all of my money on the damn thing, finally sorted out and back to loving it again.

Cliff notes: He bought a low mileage Spec B that looked lightly modded, turns out the car had a VF52 and probably many other mods on it before being returned back to stock-ish (I implied that this was the case as soon as I read about the AOS and 3 port EBCS). Car smokes. Compression test reads 40psi on cylinder 4. PO claims he will take the car back and refund @landcrush. @landcrush is skeptical. Awaiting further updates.

My bet: Stage 3, had fueling mods. Was returned to stock on the same tune, causing it to run lean. As usual, cylinder 4 goes bye bye.

OP: I wish you the best of luck. Next time, have the car taken to a reputable shop for an inspection. Any shop would've red flagged the hell out of a "stock" car with an IAG AOS.

It sounds like the sellers is a pretty upstanding guy if he is going to buy it back. How is he to know (for sure) that you didn't red line every shift since you drove it away from him?

If it were me, and the rest of the car is in good shape, I'd keep it, put a new shortblock in it with a VF52 and minimal supporting mods(TMIC, DP, etc).

It sounds like the sellers is a pretty upstanding guy if he is going to buy it back. How is he to know (for sure) that you didn't red line every shift since you drove it away from him?

 

If it were me, and the rest of the car is in good shape, I'd keep it, put a new shortblock in it with a VF52 and minimal supporting mods(TMIC, DP, etc).

Second this, you'll love the car with a fully functioning engine. If the previous owner is willing to buy the car back maybe they'd be willing to give you some money back towards the rebuild instead.

Next time, have the car taken to a reputable shop for an inspection. Any shop would've red flagged the hell out of a "stock" car with an IAG AOS.

or with 40psi of compression in one of the cylinders

This has become a personal policy for me. I learned this lesson from a "clean" 300zx TT swap lol.

Thanks for the cliff notes I got a little carried away.

Seller is still willing to accept the return which does show to me he is a good guy. I don't think he was ever trying to pull a fast one on me, I just don't think he knew much about the car.

As far as the AOS, i was skeptical as well but if you checkout TurboTime's website (http://turbotime.us) the stage one 'package' included installation of an AOS or catch can, and it was the seller who had that done not the previous owner before him. clearly the car had a hard life before that though lol

Now I'm a little torn as to the direction i want to go because the car is clean otherwise and I'd love to keep the car. I'd have no problem building a motor, but i worry about the rest of the drivetrain and how hard it was beat on. I payed too much for a car with a blown motor, but if he were willing to refund some of the cost, keeping it could be a possibility.

Also RZA, i checked when i pulled the turbo and there was no filter in the banjo bolt however the other lines looked pretty corroded and gross

Drivetrain is pretty stout. Build up a nice short block, put back on the vf52, tune it and enjoy.

Agreed. The 6MT is one of the toughest transmissions Subaru put in these cars. There are 6MTs running over 500hp without issue.

As far as the car having a tough life, one could debate that. It may have just had a bad tune. The tune is key. If you have a bad tune, you can ruin a factory engine with stock power levels. There are stories of cars with the factory tune on them with cracked ringlands. These engine don't like knock.

If the car is clean, keep it and put an engine it in. You will be hard pressed to find another car like it with that low of mileage. You can pick up a brand new OEM shortblock for ~$3000 or a built one for slightly more.

Quick update -

After much back and forth with the P.O., he is willing to give a partial refund provided I have Subaru mechanics perform a leakdown and compression with documentation.

I'm quite happy if that pans out, I really want to keep the car.

Next point to tackle if keeping the car is what I plan on doing to the motor. I was contemplating an OEM shortblock and machining heads replacing all oil lines etc; depending on what the leakdown tells me. I plan on keeping power mildly above stock so I'm not too concerned with going to forged internals.

That being said, would you all advise atleast doing forged pistons (if in fact i had ringland failure) I'm going for longevity in this build and would like to see close to another 100k out of it.

Hey, really sorry to hear about your experience, but also hopeful that you can get everything sorted out.

If I were in your position, I would do a stock shortblock, a VF52, an UP+DP, a tune from a reputable tuner that knows these cars, btssm for monitoring, and STOP right there. Change your oil on schedule, change your filter with your oil, monitor engine health, and the car should give you many miles of driving pleasure.

Quick update -

 

After much back and forth with the P.O., he is willing to give a partial refund provided I have Subaru mechanics perform a leakdown and compression with documentation.

 

I'm quite happy if that pans out, I really want to keep the car.

 

Next point to tackle if keeping the car is what I plan on doing to the motor. I was contemplating an OEM shortblock and machining heads replacing all oil lines etc; depending on what the leakdown tells me. I plan on keeping power mildly above stock so I'm not too concerned with going to forged internals.

That being said, would you all advise atleast doing forged pistons (if in fact i had ringland failure) I'm going for longevity in this build and would like to see close to another 100k out of it.

Read my click here link to see how to do a ej257 SB the right way the first time. My Tuner is http://www.tuningalliance.com

Last I heard the ej257 was like 1800 and get the gasket set for your year car.

Leaning toward the OEM shortblock route. Safe to say I can expect decent lonegevtity provided a good tune? Not saying I want to make crazy Powrrr but I don't want to build the motor and then worry about breaking it if I want a bit more power. (300ish whp)

Thoughts on stock block and drop in 4032 pistons?

Waiting on leak down from Subaru Turnervsville Monday, will go from there.

Excited to hopefully get this motor done trying to do it in roughly a month timeframe. I have access to a lift Ill be tearing the motor down removing all accessories and having heads looked at then shopping out someone to assemble long block.

Leaning toward AZP, Autospeed or Precision for that (all in NJ) If you guys have any suggestions for tuning/machine shop local tristate let me know. I know there are a lot of guys up in the Northeast too

Quick update -

 

Next point to tackle if keeping the car is what I plan on doing to the motor. I was contemplating an OEM shortblock and machining heads replacing all oil lines etc; depending on what the leakdown tells me. I plan on keeping power mildly above stock so I'm not too concerned with going to forged internals.

That being said, would you all advise atleast doing forged pistons (if in fact i had ringland failure) I'm going for longevity in this build and would like to see close to another 100k out of it.

That seems overkill to me. The heads should be fine. You can have them inspected, but I would not anticipate any problems after only 52K Miles. I'm not sure you need to replace oil lines either. Seems like an extra expense. They can be checked and flushed when the engine is apart. If you want to do something, I would recommend upgraded head studs or at least replacing them. If the PO was running over 18psi, there is a chance they are fatigued.

Leaning toward the OEM shortblock route. Safe to say I can expect decent lonegevtity provided a good tune? Not saying I want to make crazy Powrrr but I don't want to build the motor and then worry about breaking it if I want a bit more power. (300ish whp)

Thoughts on stock block and drop in 4032 pistons?

With a bad tune, you will crack 4032 pistons as well. I would stay stock. Here is a good article on forged pistons if you haven't seen it. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/those-you-considering-aftermarket-forged-pistons-130635.html