Only getting 15psi after K&N intake install - read my logs

I just installed a K&N Typhoon intake system, then shortly after I installed GP moto EL headers.

 

I did a log after I installed the K&N Typhoon and sent it to Jon @ TDC. He sent me a realtime to tune for the intake and I only hit 16 psi peak. I figured it just needed more tuning, but disregarded that since I was putting on my headers soon.

 

I slapped on the headers and after a couple of logs and realtimes from Jon... I am still only getting 15 or 16 psi. So now I am thinking it was actually the intake. I hit 18psi peak on the TDC STG II before the K&N. After the K&N - only 15 or 16psi.

 

I flashed BACK to TDC STG II and still only getting 15 psi... whereas before I got 18psi. So it is not the map.

 

Since boost dropped after the K&N, I assume it is the K&N. The links to the logs are below:

 

**logs removed oer TDC's request. Try to help without them!**

 

Order:

tdc_stg_2

KN_typhoon_log1

headers_log1

headers_tuned_log2

 

let me know your thoughts.

http://legacygt.com/forums/tdc-tuning/40471-tdc-special-week-08-a.html

 

you should jump on this one

Not that I can help, but I find it interesting that somehow your logs can give away their proprietary information...

What did Jon say, apart from asking you to remove your logs ?

 

Try putting back the stock intake, see what happens then.

I dont think the K&N has anything to do with it.

 

Swap it back over to what you had before just for assurance it's not the intake. I had problems with my Stage 1 pro tune overboosting. I had already ran the Typhoon with Cobb stage 1 and had no problems. Turns out the ID of one of the vacuum fittings at the waste gate soleniod was screwing with the tune.

 

Go over you WG hoses very carefully. Pressure test them, make sure everything is stock in those hoses for WG control.

 

Good luck, let us know what you come up with.

 

Just an note, if you are running the stock turbo and WG, the actuator is a 9psi unit. If you apply pressure to it, it should start to open preciesly at 9 psi. OR, if u block one of the lines to the WG solenoid (in essence, turning it off) you should see between 9 and 12 psi.

I dont think the K&N has anything to do with it.

 

Swap it back over to what you had before just for assurance it's not the intake. I had problems with my Stage 1 pro tune overboosting. I had already ran the Typhoon with Cobb stage 1 and had no problems. Turns out the ID of one of the vacuum fittings at the waste gate soleniod was screwing with the tune.

 

Go over you WG hoses very carefully. Pressure test them, make sure everything is stock in those hoses for WG control.

 

Good luck, let us know what you come up with.

 

Just an note, if you are running the stock turbo and WG, the actuator is a 9psi unit. If you apply pressure to it, it should start to open preciesly at 9 psi. OR, if u block one of the lines to the WG solenoid (in essence, turning it off) you should see between 9 and 12 psi.

 

Thanks, yea I am searching around for boost leaks. I cannot seem to find anything while its idling.... but since it is a small leak it might be hard to find.

 

Would a slight leak at the exhaust do the same thing? I have already ruled this out a little, since the problem started after the K&N.

i really dont see the intake doing this. i have bolted on stuff after my tune & no bad affects, just good.

 

for exhaust leak..... if its leaking before the front O2 sensor its possible that the O2 is getting a different reading. basically it will see more oxygen in the exhaust & will richen up the A/F.

i really dont see the intake doing this. i have bolted on stuff after my tune & no bad affects, just good.

 

for exhaust leak..... if its leaking before the front O2 sensor its possible that the O2 is getting a different reading. basically it will see more oxygen in the exhaust & will richen up the A/F.

 

but would that change the boost? I thought maybe if there was a leak... that air is not available to help spin the turbo and thus I am getting low readings. I am a noob at that stuff though. Seems it would have to be a big leak for this to be true... but maybe not.

 

Either way.... the bottom line is, I was not hitting target boost after I installed the intake. i.e. I might have bumped something during that install. (not the intake itself of course)

What? TDC wanted your logs removed? Why?

but would that change the boost? I thought maybe if there was a leak... that air is not available to help spin the turbo and thus I am getting low readings. I am a noob at that stuff though. Seems it would have to be a big leak for this to be true... but maybe not.

 

Either way.... the bottom line is, I was not hitting target boost after I installed the intake. i.e. I might have bumped something during that install. (not the intake itself of course)

 

it would have to be a huge leak to do something like that. still almost impossible on the exhaust side.

I was getting a a nice boxer rumble withe enough air coming out of the manifold to UP gasket to put out a match, but it didn't hurt max boost readings at all...or not much. Was hitting 17.8 with that kinda leak...

^ I agree - it's not unusual for even quite large UP leaks to manifest with fully realized target boost....

 

Check header-to-manifold on both sides?

Just a thought. Is you boost gauge accurate?

^ Good question.

 

But I'd assume that brother Cas is reading this off at least his gauge *and* his datalogs?

^ Good question.

 

But I'd assume that brother Cas is reading this off at least his gauge *and* his datalogs?

 

yea realtime AP readings and logs.

 

I will check my header to manifold connections and also look around at my vac lines. Thanks for the help guys.

 

Oh, and about TDC, a knowledgable person could see the changes between the logs and essentially see what TDC does on these eTunes.

It would be interesting to compare WG duty cycles before and after.

 

I'm sorry, but did you say you posted logs?

It would be interesting to compare WG duty cycles before and after.

 

I'm sorry, but did you say you posted logs?

 

TDC did not want me to post logs. I made some graphs in excel.... I assume these can't hurt.

 

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2166/wgdutycomparovy3.jpg

 

Stage II - Tuned - 18psi max boost

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5943/stgiiwgboostia4.jpg

 

K&N Installed - Tune #1 - 16.8psi max boost. (I have not gotten this high again)

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8186/knwgboostfz0.jpg

 

K&N and EL Headers Installed - Tune #2 - 15.5psi peak

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/306/headerswgboostlb3.jpg

bump for some help trying to tackle this. Can someone talk to me a bit about WG duty cycles and how it relates to boost? I understand it controls it, but what to you make of the graphs and how does the lower WG duty cycle you see in my last two graphs effect the boost?

The higher the WG duty cycle the more the solenoid is bleeding off pressure seen by the actuator from the compressor. With a high duty cycle enough pressure is being bled off to keep the actuator spring from being overcome so the WG stays closed. As the duty cycle gets lower less pressure is being bled off so more pressure is applied against the spring and the WG will start to open.

 

I've got a similar problem with boost. At WOT my duty cycle very rapidly drops from 90% to about 50% and my boost, which only briefly hits 12-13 psi, quickly tapers off as the WG opens.

 

Jon at TDC asked me to send him logs of this, which a did a couple days ago, but I haven't heard anything back yet.

Nice job with the graphs!

 

TDC is very busy with the new wind tunnel project!

 

Looking at the last graph (tune 2) it looks like the wg duty cycle is delayed to full boost by approximately 500 rpm higher than tune 1. The percentage of duty cycle is also lower on the tune 2, ( looks like 93% vs 96ish for tune 1).

TDC and I went back and forth last night with different MAPS. it is not EM... it must be something mechanical that is messing with my WGDC. I guess I will start stepping backwards with the mods and see whats up.

 

Its crazy.... low boost even on the old maps. But no boost leak evident in my logs or under the hood.

Lets take off your intake first and check all hoses and connections, since thats when the low boost started.

 

 

Saturday morning?

Lets take off your intake first and check all hoses and connections, since thats when the low boost started.

 

 

Saturday morning?

 

Sure. I am waking up early (7:00?) to weed wack the flower garden in my back yard (might wake you up). That should not take long. We can take some logs then. Check your email.

Sorry if I missed it if you already did it but why don't you take the AM filter off? That seems to be when your problems began. Subaru engineers did a great job with the OEM CAI system.

Sorry if I missed it if you already did it but why don't you take the AM filter off? That seems to be when your problems began. Subaru engineers did a great job with the OEM CAI system.

 

Becuase the intake should have nothing to do with the problem I am seeing. We first thought is was an engine management issue... so that was the first step. Now that we know it is not that, we will start stepping backwards.

 

If you dont know, K&N is a good tunable intake for the LGT. TDC, the company that tunes them, has tuned these intakes and never seen an issue like this with the install. Subaru did a good job, you are right. But this should not be happening. I have run other intakes on my car with no problems.