5 Degrees of Knock Correction Advance Am I F***ed?

Let me preface this by saying that I purchased the car already tuned and have in no way messed with the maps. In fact I just got the Vag-Com cable a few days ago and this is my first pull ever. Also, the log only goes to 4800rpm for some reason. I know another member was having a similar problem, anyone know a solution?

 

So my car has been eating oil lately and I have noticed a slight loss of power (still pulls decently hard though). I bought a cable to check the cars performance to see if I could tell anything from a log.

 

Well, I have alot of AFR learning and Knock Correction. Needless to say this freaked me out. Besides babying it untill I get a retune, is there anything I can check/do? How dangerous is this to drive?

 

One possible explination I thought of, was maybe there is oil getting in the intake from a stuck open pcv and this is effectively lowering the octane of the fuel which is required correction? Or maybe the tune really is that s***ty?

 

Here's the log (I didn't know what to log since this was my first pull ) and learning view screen shot. :spin:

romraiderlog_20130331_220339.csv

IAM has not dropped, so it can't be that bad. Just drive it easy, get the car to a reputable tuner and have them go over it to make sure all is safe.

1) List any and all modifications to car.

 

2) Your car isn't blowing up. As 05pearl said, your IAM hasn't dropped, so it's not that bad.

 

3) I would still be concerned with the knock you're seeing.

 

4) Who did your tune? You should find out. Contact the previous owner. Or pull the tune and look at it yourself. Personally, I do not like how your Fuel Trim table is scaled.

 

5) You don't have 5 degrees of knock.

 

6) Log these instead. These parameters won't show up unless you're connected to the car. Make sure you choose it word for word exactly what I said.

 

A/F Learning #1 (2-byte)** (%)

A/F Sensor #1 (2-byte)** (estimated AFR)

Boost Error* (psi)Engine Load (4-Byte)* (g/rev)

Engine Speed (rpm)

Feedback Knock Correction (1-byte)** (degrees)

Fine Learning Knock Correction (1-byte)** (degrees)

Gear (Calculated)* (position)

IAM (1-byte)** (multiplier)

Ignition Total Timing (degrees)

Intake Air Temperature (F)

Knock Sum* (count)

Manifold Relative Pressure (4-byte)* (psi relative)

Mass Airflow (g/s)

Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)

Target Boost (4-byte)* (psi relative sea level)

Throttle Opening Angle (%)

Turbo Dynamics Integral (4-byte)* (absolute %)

Turbo Dynamics Proportional (4-byte)* (absolute %)

 

Yes, I ask for a lot of parameters, but this gives you a good overall view of the car.

 

7) If you've seen mention of the logging problem and cutting out, then you should also know there doesn't appear to be a definitive fix, and some people (like Cone_killer) haven't been able to fix it. It varies wildly. Start by adding a ferrite choke to the cable.

1) List any and all modifications to car.

 

VF52, headers, TBE, K&N Intake, Perrin TMIC, DW 740cc, Walbro 255 (possibly a LWFW and clutch from 1st owner?)

2) Your car isn't blowing up. As 05pearl said, your IAM hasn't dropped, so it's not that bad.

 

So IAM is okay? I was reading that the lower the IAM (1-16 scale) the more knock you have? Or is this the IAM ratio x/16?

3) I would still be concerned with the knock you're seeing.

 

4) Who did your tune? You should find out. Contact the previous owner. Or pull the tune and look at it yourself. Personally, I do not like how your Fuel Trim table is scaled.

 

Eric at IPS Motorsports. I tried pulling the tune with ECU Flash but no dice . I noticed that the AFR ramp up for boost looked a little funky. Could this or the knock be a result of the poor connection?

 

5) You don't have 5 degrees of knock.

Pewwwwh! I guess I was looking at the fine knock correction in the log....

 

6) Log these instead. These parameters won't show up unless you're connected to the car. Make sure you choose it word for word exactly what I said.

 

Will do!

 

7) If you've seen mention of the logging problem and cutting out, then you should also know there doesn't appear to be a definitive fix, and some people (like Cone_killer) haven't been able to fix it. It varies wildly. Start by adding a ferrite choke to the cable.

 

I'll do this as well. Any possible benefit to adding multiple chokes? I do have HIDs and a subwoofer amp connected to my battery terminals which might cause interference. Sometimes my radio gets staticy when I have my headlights on (worse than with them off) I'll trying doing a pull today with the ferrite clips and no headlights/radio, etc.

 

Thanks for the help guys!

Also, I pulled the PCV last night. Still rattles but slightly gunked up. Cleaned with maf cleaner and re installed. Minimal oil in I/C, slight puddle of oil in the I/C TB connection hose....

1) List any and all modifications to car.

 

VF52, headers, TBE, K&N Intake, Perrin TMIC, DW 740cc, Walbro 255 (possibly a LWFW and clutch from 1st owner?)

Well, that puts things in more perspective. Was wondering how you were pushing 18 PSI at 4K.

 

On the flip side, your spool looks slow to me, but perhaps that's just how they chose to do the tune, or maybe that's a normal VF52 curve, but I'm not sure....

 

 

So IAM is okay? I was reading that the lower the IAM (1-16 scale) the more knock you have? Or is this the IAM ratio x/16?

No, on our cars, IAM is 1, or less. 1 = good. Less than 1 is bad.

 

The 16 range is for WRX I believe... and maybe the STi also?

 

3) I would still be concerned with the knock you're seeing.

It's not horrible, but it can (should) be looked at more closely to see what conditions it's occurring under and maybe corrected if necessary.

 

Eric at IPS Motorsports. I tried pulling the tune with ECU Flash but no dice . I noticed that the AFR ramp up for boost looked a little funky. Could this or the knock be a result of the poor connection?

Maybe, don't know, will have to check my own logs at home later. Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

They might have locked your map.

 

Pewwwwh! I guess I was looking at the fine knock correction in the log....

You're confusing terms.

 

The Knock Correction Advance parameter is also known as Dynamic Advance. It's the amount of timing advance being added on top of your base timing table. The parameter in and of itself isn't very useful unless you have the timing table and advance table in front of you to reference, which is why I suggest remove it from logging altogether.

 

Fine Learning is what's contained within the table. Your log doesn't log FLKC. Nor does it log FBKC. That's why I gave you a new list of parameters.

 

I'll do this as well. Any possible benefit to adding multiple chokes?

Won't hurt to try. If 1 choke = no good, try 2. If still no good, then then they're probably not helping.

 

Also, forgot to mention it but your fuel trims look fine. I'm not going to get into a complicated and long winded explanation of why I disagree with the scaling but as they are looks okay to me.

 

HOWEVER, your fine learning load columns should be rescaled. 1.6+ is unacceptable.

Well, that puts things in more perspective. Was wondering how you were pushing 18 PSI at 4K.

 

On the flip side, your spool looks slow to me, but perhaps that's just how they chose to do the tune, or maybe that's a normal VF52 curve, but I'm not sure....

 

Yeah I noticed that too, it's an OEM turbo so I'm not sure why it's not reaching peak boost sooner? I've been told by others that my car spools especially slow for some reason...

 

 

No, on our cars, IAM is 1, or less. 1 = good. Less than 1 is bad.

 

The 16 range is for WRX I believe... and maybe the STi also?

 

Ok, good to know. So as long as my IAM is 1 I shouldn't be too concerned about popping my motor?

 

It's not horrible, but it can (should) be looked at more closely to see what conditions it's occurring under and maybe corrected if necessary.

 

Maybe, don't know, will have to check my own logs at home later. Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

They might have locked your map.

 

Even if they locked it, I should still be able to upload new ROMs, correct?

 

You're confusing terms.

 

The Knock Correction Advance parameter is also known as Dynamic Advance. It's the amount of timing advance being added on top of your base timing table. The parameter in and of itself isn't very useful unless you have the timing table and advance table in front of you to reference, which is why I suggest remove it from logging altogether.

 

Fine Learning is what's contained within the table. Your log doesn't log FLKC. Nor does it log FBKC. That's why I gave you a new list of parameters.

 

Good info, I'll try plugging it into the car and reselecting those parameters.

 

Won't hurt to try. If 1 choke = no good, try 2. If still no good, then then they're probably not helping.

 

Also, forgot to mention it but your fuel trims look fine. I'm not going to get into a complicated and long winded explanation of why I disagree with the scaling but as they are looks okay to me.

 

HOWEVER, your fine learning load columns should be rescaled. 1.6+ is unacceptable.

 

The weird part is I'm more anxious about the lack of logging ability than the s***ty tune right now. I would gladly pay for a new tune, but without the ability to consistently pull a solid log I guess I'm up a creek without a paddle.

Your slow spool could be due to the fact that your WGDC is extremely low during the spoolup. Your PWGDC should be a lot higher for your turbo to spool up properly. I have no idea why your tuner has it that low. Perhaps they did it to control overboost/spike during turbo windup, but that is a poor way of controlling it IMHO.

 

I don't know if you can overwrite your map when it's locked. I don't have experience with this sort of thing.

 

Also, just because IAM is 1 doesn't mean "all clear!" You have to look at the entire picture. It's a good indicator that things aren't bad but you do have some knock... and 2 degrees of knock in the high RPM high load range can hurt your car. It especially doesn't help that your tuner didn't rescale your load columns...

 

Don't drive your car too hard until we get a nice good look at everything.

Since the previous owner is the one who had it tuned, I don't have alot of info on how it was set up. I do know that it was a "very conservative" tune, with AFR's in the low 11s and peak boost of 18psi tapering to 14...this is what I was told by the owner as well as the tuner himself. That being said, it definitely feels like there is room for improvement in the cars tune...

 

I'll take it easy on the car and try to get a pull in today. Thanks for the help!

With the usual opensource tools it's not possible to lock the ECU. It is possible to protect a map by changing the CAL ID and creating a custom definition for that.

Even an ECU 'locked' via Ecutek can be restored via SHBoot, off the car.

When I talked with the tuner after I bought the car, he said that he didn't lock the map but who knows if he was telling the truth...

Do you have the latest definitions for ECUFlash? What's the error you get?

Well I added 2 ferrite cores, disconnected my HIDs, sub and Hellas from the positive terminal of my battery, turned off HVAC, fogs and fully dimmed the gauge cluster and it still cut out

 

If I were to get retuned and get a fresh base map, would that help in getting a pull logged? Wouldn't want to risk clearing my current tune and not be able to update the base map, but just a thought...

 

Anyway here are the 2 pulls that I tried...

pull 1.csv

pull 2.csv

No, I doubt that'll make a difference at all. No sense in doing pulls until we can get the logs going properly.

 

BTW, how are you installing the ferrite chokes? Like so?

 

http://i49.tinypic.com/27zllw3.gif

 

Check ground connections under the hood... there are some grounding straps under the hood and other ground wires in the passenger compartment (behind carpetting) that you might want to examine.

 

I wish I could help you with this other than that. I used to have the logging problem and it mysteriously disappeared.

For some reason the ones I got at radio shack only allow for 1 pass through the choke so I can't do the winding method shown in the picture... Ughhh

Buy another USB cable to eliminate that as a problem.

I just got this cable this past weekend and it logs fine except for at WOT...

Very strange. Maybe you can go ask about the connection error at openecu.org?

So I think I have the right version of ECUflash now, 1.29a I guess. I tried pulling the Rom and got different error message further in the pulling process...do I need to have the green connectors plugged together in order to complete the pull?

So I think I have the right version of ECUflash now, 1.29a I guess. I tried pulling the Rom and got different error message further in the pulling process...do I need to have the green connectors plugged together in order to complete the pull?

 

Yes, you need to plug the test mode connectors together. On many of these pre-CANbus cars you have hit the button on ECUflash to read the ROM within a second or so of turning on the ignition... a bit tricky. As iNVAR mentions, reflashing the same ROM will not make any difference to your logging issues.

Yeah I was just trying to pull the .hex file currently on my ecu to see what the maps looked like.

 

So I tried to pull the map without connecting the green connectors last night and my odometer flashed an error message. This morning it sputtered trying to move it out of the garage...I didn't mess anything up did I? I guess I'm just paranoid that I'm gonna accidentally brick my ecu or something.

that's a bit weird. trying to read it shouldn't do a thing at all.unless you happened to reset the ecu, then your idle would be rough for a bit.

 

try reading through cone_killer's thread about suggestions what to do for the logging problem.

Ok, car seems to be running fine and no CEL in boost or anything so I guess it's alright.

 

What all would be involved in changed out the ECU? If that would be the definitive solution, I would gladly pay the 150-200 for a used one....I just dont want it to be more trouble than it's worth or install it and find out that it doesn't fix my problem.

If you are not able to log, then I'm guessing you are not a tuner. So, I will repeat one more time: the original LV does not indicate anything too bad as you IAM is still at 1. Drive the car, easy, to a reputable tuner and have them go over your tune to make sure all is safe.

 

You can continue to mess with it yourself, until you finally figure things out, or make a mistake. If that's the type of thing you like to do.

I can log fine, but the ECU stops transmitting data in the middle of the WOT pull around 4.5k rpm. From what I'm reading I'm not the only one to have this problem either. I don't think that even a reputable tuner would be able to solve this issue quickly. Plus the nearest brick and mortar tuning shop is 100+ miles away.