Shopping list for timing belt change?

My 2005 Legacy 2.5i wagon is coming up on 105K miles, so I'm starting to get my stuff together for the timing belt change. I'm not going to do it myself, but I'm going to buy the parts myself from 1stsubaruparts.com to save a few bucks off MSRP.

 

Other than the belt itself, what other parts do I need to buy? Is it necessary (or prudent) to replace the tensioner too? The timing belt is only $46.76, but the tensioner is $107.96.

 

As long as the mechanic is in there, are there any seals, etc. that should be replaced as a precautionary measure? I plan on driving the car another 100K miles. There are currently no leaks (knock on wood), so I wonder if it would be better just to leave well enough alone.

 

I'm also wrestling with the question of whether to change the water pump at the same time. I have no cooling system issues, and have changed the coolant with OEM fluid every 30K miles, so I'm wondering if this is really necessary.

Do the water pump. It's not much money and if it quits in the next 50,000 miles you'll be doing the belt and the labor all over again.

i'm in the same boat @ 90k.

so far i've got a PE belt and a gimmick thermo. i'm sold on adding oe water pump and tensioner to the list, but still on the fence over idlers, and who to actually allow to do the work.

I guess the question is whether water pumps are a common failure item on the newer Legacies, I had a '93 legacy that made it to 240K on the original water pump, and was running fine when I sold it, but I don't know if I was just lucky...

 

What about the thermostat, is this something that is changed more easily when the timing belt is done? Do the coolant have to be drained to change the thermostat? I have had those go south on me. Not the old Legacy, but an '86 VW Vanagon at 120K miles.

How much does it usually run if you have all the parts in hand, but have a mechanic do it?.. (talking about timing belt and water pump install)

Figure about $1000.

 

I did mine last Sept. I made a post here with pictures. I replaced the tensioners all the belts and water pump, I think the thermostat.

 

The main tensioner, it easier and safer to replace it then try and push the plunger back in.

 

The parts alone for my GT were like $500.00 with anti-freeze.

 

Found it,

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94193

I did the idlers as well when I did my wife's forester. Possibly the crank gear as well IIRC. My thought was to replace as much as possible to avoid having the belt break.

 

Def do the water pump and thermostat. They don't add much to the cost and are good insurance against having to shell out big $$ in the future. I also did a front main seal, again it's a $7 insurance.

 

A good quality belt is a must as well. I used the OEM unit. It was marked really well which made lining everything up real easy.

Obviously new to the forum as this is my first post. Just bought an 03 Legacy L auto. 110k miles EJ251 engine. Looking to do the timing belt myself. How many idler pulleys are there? 1st Subaru parts has a #1 and a #2 idler pulleys. Does that mean there 2 of the #2 listed? Shows 3 in their illustration.

 

Not new to doing this stuff just new to Subarus. My Legacy is replacing my 91 BMW 325iX (all wheel drive too) with 325k.

I thought there were two idlers and the tensioner pulley.

My Daughter just bought a 2005 Subaru Legacy with what I THINK is the 2.5i H4 Engine under the hood. The car is puff sweet inside and out ...but with 84,000 miles on it and her having to leave to go off to another out-of-state university for her PhD in Veterinary Medicine... Dear Ol' Dad will NOT be around to fix what he usually does whenever anything goes wrong on all of our vehicles. So with this newer Subura (which I am completeley unfamiliar with) I'm hoping to do a preemptive strike on any possible problems with "the weakest links" that might arise over the next four years she'll be gone by doing a complete Timing Belt Kit change before she has to leave in a month.

 

Now for the "Stupid" question... Will somebody ease my mind about this little engine being a naturally aspirated engine of the SOHC flavor...and NOT the DOHC variety? The problem is that I won't actually get to peek under the hood until she arrives home in another week or so and in the mean time to get ready, I've ordered a full set of OEM 2005 Subura Legacy Shop Manuals and was hoping to also order the Timing Belt Kit before she arrives home so I can dive right in and fix this potential nightmare before any bad thing happens with the timing belt situation.

 

I glommed the images of her engine compartment off of the Web Page of the car dealership that displayed the vehicle, pre-sale ...but I would appreciate it if the more experienced members among us would take a look at the attached images of the engine and the Timing Belt Kit being offered on eBay and let me know if I am about to order the right ( or possibly wrong) kit....Maybe I should wait until the car gets here?

 

The relevant digits of the VIN as listed on the net are:

4S3BL616657XXXXXX , if that helps to pin down the engine and car line series and the attached images show what the damned thing looks like. I promise not to ask any more stupid questions as soon as the books come and I can dive in and learn more before the car gets here and I screw things up! Oh... I would LIKE to use the site vendors for buying my parts,...but I've already been through all of the "Stickies" looking for the parts and pieces at better prices...but so far...nobody has been able to beat the few vendors on eBay who are combining a lot of the parts into what looks like much more affordable kits.

 

Thanks to all in advance for any help!

 

--==Bob==--

The pic above is the 2.5i engine. Call your local dealer with the VIN to verify.

 

If you want to to the the most conservative timing belt change for a Turbo GT:

Timing Belt

13033AA042 Tensioner Adjuster Assy

21111AA240 Water Pump (prob. not necessary - very reliable part in Subarus)

13028AA20 OEM Timing Belt

13073AA142 Idler (x2)

13085AA080 Geared Idler CP Bel

13073AA230 Idler CP Bel

20326AA000 Spacer Strut

Water Pump

21114AA051 Pump Gasket

S0A868V9210 Coolant

S0A635071 Cooling System conditioner

 

Theremostat

21236AA010 O-ring

21200AA072 Thermostat

 

Also consider all external drive belts.

Rim...

 

 

Thanks for running down all the parts and pieces and numbers for this job. I'm grateful . After checking out the PCI company selling the timing belt set to professional installers and finding no bad news, I took the plunge and bought their kit on sale for around $165 and change + S&H. It arrived fairly quick and was in professional package , parts sealed and looked in good shape. There were two Product Installation Warning sheets in the box and since I have no experience with this swap, I scanned them and attached them to this post. I would appreciate any information that will tell me if the sheets mention anything I should be very concerned with...remembering that this vehicle is an '05 Subaru Legacy, 2.5L SOHC engine with 84,000 miles so far.

 

 

As for the ST to remove the crank pulley bolt, if someone will give me all of the measurements of the part that has the four pins and the hole in the center to allow the 22mm socket and breaker bar inside, I'll make my own. I hate to drop a 'Fazool” on a tool for a repair job that only has to be done every 75-105,000 miles. I could also use a lead on where to buy the parts and gaskets online as well (I've already picked up a brand new Subaru OE Water Pump P/N 21111AA110 for $65, but I need the gasket(s) for it , among others from your thoughtful list) All the Subaru Manuals I ordered came in...except the very one I need the most (HCSO4). When it does, I'll pore over the methods and procedures necessary to keep me from making this project FUBAR. Oh... lest I forget to ask...do I need to fabricate some kind of tool to hold the two cam pulleys in stasis so that any valve spring pressure is not released when the old belt is removed?

 

 

And...the only other question I have left is... Will you please tell me that the Buxom Blond shown in your ID box on the left really IS the mother of your children? LOL...

 

 

Thanks again ...for all this assistance!

 

 

--==Bob==--

Rim...

 

 

Thanks for running down all the parts and pieces and numbers for this job. I'm grateful . After checking out the PCI company selling the timing belt set to professional installers and finding no bad news, I took the plunge and bought their kit on sale for around $165 and change + S&H. It arrived fairly quick and was in professional package , parts sealed and looked in good shape. There were two Product Installation Warning sheets in the box and since I have no experience with this swap, I scanned them and attached them to this post. I would appreciate any information that will tell me if the sheets mention anything I should be very concerned with...remembering that this vehicle is an '05 Subaru Legacy, 2.5L SOHC engine with 84,000 miles so far.

 

 

As for the ST to remove the crank pulley bolt, if someone will give me all of the measurements of the part that has the four pins and the hole in the center to allow the 22mm socket and breaker bar inside, I'll make my own. I hate to drop a 'Fazool” on a tool for a repair job that only has to be done every 75-105,000 miles. I could also use a lead on where to buy the parts and gaskets online as well (I've already picked up a brand new Subaru OE Water Pump P/N 21111AA110 for $65, but I need the gasket(s) for it , among others from your thoughtful list) All the Subaru Manuals I ordered came in...except the very one I need the most (HCSO4). When it does, I'll pore over the methods and procedures necessary to keep me from making this project FUBAR.

 

 

The only other question I have left is... Will you please tell me that the Buxom Blond shown in your ID box on the left really IS the mother of your children? LOL...

 

 

Thanks again ...for all this assistance!

 

 

--==Bob==--

 

 

PS... Is this site any good for anything?

 

 

 

http://subarucarspare.com/Engine/Subaru-Cyl-Head/

Okay... I know you're all still out there... 'cause I can hear you breathing... But since I have not seen any responses to my last pile of questions... I moped around elsewhere and found this thread on the very same subject...assuming there are any inquiring minds (or those about to do this fix) who want to know...

 

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t79737-diy-camshaft-sprocket-removal-request.html

Since I have almost all the raw materials necessary to dummy up and MIG weld the two Specialty Tools needed to remove/install the Timing Belt (Including removing the camshaft pulley to replace the old water pump with a new factory OEM WP), I thought I'd poke around and try to find some other images that might give me a better idea of how to bend or angle the tools to just the right position with the plates/bolts and alignments tacked lightly into place.

 

I found a couple of older Technician Instruction PDFs that had even better visuals as high quality photographs and engine dis-assembly images...and even though they were for the 2.2L engine...they provided exactly what I wanted...even better than the line drawings and stick figures that usually populate the "How-Tos'. To illustrate what I mean...I did a few screen prints of what I was after to help me in doping out my own engineering and I made a list of the sites that had a whole bunch of other similar PDFs and helpful stuff. (See URLs below). When I get it done...and ...assuming both tools work according to plan...I'll make a list of the important parts and procedures needed and I will follow up with digital images showing how to make and use them by creating a photo-journal on my photo bucket for all to see...assuming of course that anybody is still out there to be interested... (besides the 400+ Lurkers eyeballing this thread from a dark corner..)

 

http://www.basinger.us/Impreza/General%20Tech.%20Ref.%20Books/MSA5P0131C34892.pdf

http://www.basinger.us/Impreza/General%20Tech.%20Ref.%20Books/MSA5P0161C34833.pdf

http://www.endwrench.com/images/pdfs/CodesRevealed.pdf

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/techtips.html

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/tech.html

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/files/SAE_boxer.pdf

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/KnowledgeRomRaiderAndReflashingFAQ?from=Knowledge.EnginuityAndReflashingFAQ

rsm05sublegfixer,

 

before you get started on this project, you might want to relax a little and look at some vacation pics. I'm sure they will help you with some of the details. It will be worth the effort.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44988

Okay... I'll try to give you the project update with some "Give Back" to the forum for all the help... Here goes nothing:

 

Read on for the detailed stuff... Or go here to see the "Visual Cliff Notes" and actual images of use:

 

05SUBARULEGACYCRANKBOLTOOL pictures by 60dgrzbelow0 - Photobucket

 

Materials required to make a "CSPBT" (Crankshaft Serpentine Pulley Bolt Tool) :

 

1 (qty) 6" X 8" X 1/8th" Gauge Plate Steel

4 (qty) 5" X 1/2" Hex Head Galvanized Bolts (8.8 hardness) with matching dual (2) sets of washers and nuts

1 (qty) 36"' X 5/8" Reinforcement Steel Rod

1 (qty) 36" X 1" Threaded, Galvanized Steel Plumbing Pipe

 

For the welding, I'd recommend something like a $100.00 90 AMP Flux Wire Welding Machine...(Safety First! Use 14" Leather Gloves, Leather Apron and a Long-Sleeved Shirt with No Pockets; Protect you "Head Gear" and eyes with ANSI quality eye and face protection. Use a Proper Work Bench Outside and away from things that will Catch Fire in your Garage!). You'll need quite a few other metric tools and an Angle-Grinder for Shaping and Cutting the Flat Steel piece and for cutting off the Bolt Heads when you get to that point... and an ANSI approved full face mask will save your bacon!

 

(1) The Timing Belt and Water Pump Change Out Processes I used here with my hand-made CSPBT worked PERFECTLY!

 

(2) The design of the Crankshaft/Serpentine Pulley Bolt Tool (CSPBT) was simple... But a stone bitch to make.

 

(3) The CSPBT allowed me to remove the strong, center crank bolt in less that 10 seconds... and install it at the completion of the Timing Belt-Roller Kit with a Digital Torque Wrench in less that 30 seconds.

 

(4) First, I made a scale sized Template of the center/four bolt pattern of the face of the Crankshaft/Serpentine Pulley using layered strips of Duct Tape... Pressed in very hard...and the carefully peeled free. Afterward, I covered the sticky side of the impression with some Saran Wrap and scanned it into a JPG as a scale sized image with a stainless steel machinist's ruler for comparison with an external ruler for print out accuracy.

 

(5) I printed up several Laser Prints of the scanned image and after taping them down on a rectangular piece of 1/8" thick plate steel. I drilled out the four outer alignment holes and also drilled out the center area quite a bit before using an angle grinder and a metal file to finish shaping the Pentagon in the center wide enough to allow the 22mm Carbide Socket open access to the Crankshaft Bolt when the tool is bolted together and the un-threaded sections of the 1/2" cutoff bolts are pushed deep into the Crankshaft/Serpentine Pulley.

 

(6) I used a cut off coaster leg from an angle iron steel bed frame to help make a strong place to insert the re-rod handle at a proper angle and then welded up everything for strength and resistance to bending.

 

(7) After everything was installed and bolted up correctly, I also slid the re-rod handle down inside of a 1" X 36" section of galvanized steel plumbing pipe to bolster its rigidity. When I set everything up. I adjusted the tool handle to lay across a 1" X 8" X 8" piece of wood , wrapped in a blanket for the handle to rest against and not damage the fender wells of the car. (Placed on the passenger side when removing the bolt and on the driver's side when installing and torquing down the bolt)

 

(8) The half-inch bolts fit perfectly and snugly up inside of the four support holes in the Crank/Serp Pulley and you should measure the depth of your own pulley in each hole positions, then cut off the bolt heads to length and smooth the tool bolt edges with a file to help for easy entry into the pulley.

 

(9) Install four nuts of the threaded sections of all four bolts and run them all the way down tight. (Best done B4 you cut off the Bolt heads) then push the smooth sections of the bolts into the four holes on the pulley.

 

(10) Install the flat plate onto the in-dwelling bolts over the threaded ends and then slip on the locking washers and nuts. Thread these down as far as they will go by hand...and then tighten them snugly enough to pull the plate tight between all of the fasteners.

 

The tool can be installed and removed easier this way and only takes a minute or two to tighten down properly. Well ...that is all there is to it... So if you don't want to give the "Subaru Stealerships" a $1,200.00 or more...this might be a way to get it done and still keep a little jingle in your pocket, to boot!

 

Good Luck...

 

 

P.S. I just had another idea...for those of us who would like to skip the hassle of finding all the flat metal pieces and the welding that goes along with it... I'd bet a brace of Gutenberg Bibles that you could get one of those Small Garden Spades with the Wooden Handle...slap on a printout of my CSPBT image...and just drill and grind out all the holes into it just as listed above... and Voila'!... Same Tool...Less Hassle!

 

--==Bob==--

All this just to take off the balancer?

 

Why not just put a breaker bar on it, put it up against the frame rail, and tap the starter?

So much for trying to "Give Back"... But since you've insinuated your simple solution here and don't see any redeeming value in this project whatsoever, perhaps you can answer the concerns I had before doing something that my mechanic's instincts told me was just plain stupid. I'm sure that while your technique works, I'm certain it must also be doing wonders for straining the starter motor and gears involved while literally trying to lift the car off the ground in gear to break the bolt loose! But what if someone does as you suggest in haste and is also very unlucky? How much damage can be done to the radiator if the breaker bar and socket fly out from under the car and wreak havoc on anything... or more importantly, anyone standing near the front of the engine compartment? And just exactly how does this brilliant shade tree mechanic's idea enable you in getting the "Jesus Bolt" properly torqued back into place when it come times to put everything back together? Mine works for both the removal and installation processes...just swimmingly good...and guarantees that I have control of everything I'm doing. No...upon reflection...I think my way actually works out for the best. The only really important consideration for the end user is to decide whether or not he's too lazy to get the job done right, rather than risking damage to his starter, motor mounts and other engine components. And besides that, after another 60,000 to 80,000 miles...he'll have to do the same job all over again...only when that time comes...he'll have a proper tool for doing the job...ready made and ready to go. Who knows... perhaps some of his Subie Owning Friends wouldn't mind "renting" this ideal tool for a weekend when their Timing Belts are on the verge of snapping and lunching another in a series of ruined interference engines because of a delay in not having the $1,200.00 the "Stealerships" charge... or just not having the right equipment to get the job done properly.

So much for trying to "Give Back"... But since you've insinuated your simple solution here and don't see any redeeming value in this project whatsoever, perhaps you can answer the concerns I had before doing something that my mechanic's instincts tell me is just plain stupid. I'm sure that while your technique works, I'm certain it must also be doing wonders for straining the starter motor and gears involved while literally trying to lift the car off the ground in gear to break the bolt loose! But what if someone does as you suggest in haste and is also very unlucky? How much damage can be done to the radiator if the breaker bar and socket fly out from under the car and wreak havoc on anything... or more importantly, anyone standing near the front of the engine compartment? And just exactly how does this brilliant shade tree mechanic's idea enable you in getting the "Jesus Bolt" properly torqued back into place when it come times to put everything back together? Mine works for both the removal and installation processes...just swimmingly good...and guarantees that I have control of everything I'm doing. No...upon reflection...I think my way actually works out for the best. The only really important consideration for the end user is to decide whether or not he's too lazy to get the job done right, rather than risking damage to his starter, motor mounts and other engine components. And besides that, after another another 60,000 to 80,000 miles...he'll have to do the same job all over again...only when that time comes...he'll have a proper tool for doing the job...ready made and ready to go. Who knows... perhaps some of his Subie Owning Friends wouldn't mind "renting" this ideal tool for a weekend when their Timing Belts are on the verge of snapping and lunching another interference engine because of a delay in not having the $1,200.00 the "Stealerships" charge...or not having the right equipment to get the job done properly.

 

Now that's giving back!

Hi there mate,

 

I notices you mentioned making those cam sprocket holding tools (I take it those are for a DOHC motor)...

Im in Japan with a GT-B EJ20 - so third generation twin turbo 2L DOHC motor.

Everything here proper costs a fortune and so Im planning to do a timing belt job (one of the pulleys has gone in there and is slowly eating the timing belt!) myself but I cant get hold of those 2 tools.

I recon I could make them up - do you have any pics, diagrams, dimmensions or tips on how you made yours?

 

Many thanks,

Stephan

 

Also if anyone has any hints or tips in general about this job that would be helpful!

 

 

Since I have almost all the raw materials necessary to dummy up and MIG weld the two Specialty Tools needed to remove/install the Timing Belt (Including removing the camshaft pulley to replace the old water pump with a new factory OEM WP), I thought I'd poke around and try to find some other images that might give me a better idea of how to bend or angle the tools to just the right position with the plates/bolts and alignments tacked lightly into place.

 

I found a couple of older Technician Instruction PDFs that had even better visuals as high quality photographs and engine dis-assembly images...and even though they were for the 2.2L engine...they provided exactly what I wanted...even better than the line drawings and stick figures that usually populate the "How-Tos'. To illustrate what I mean...I did a few screen prints of what I was after to help me in doping out my own engineering and I made a list of the sites that had a whole bunch of other similar PDFs and helpful stuff. (See URLs below). When I get it done...and ...assuming both tools work according to plan...I'll make a list of the important parts and procedures needed and I will follow up with digital images showing how to make and use them by creating a photo-journal on my photo bucket for all to see...assuming of course that anybody is still out there to be interested... (besides the 400+ Lurkers eyeballing this thread from a dark corner..)

 

http://www.basinger.us/Impreza/General%20Tech.%20Ref.%20Books/MSA5P0131C34892.pdf

http://www.basinger.us/Impreza/General%20Tech.%20Ref.%20Books/MSA5P0161C34833.pdf

http://www.endwrench.com/images/pdfs/CodesRevealed.pdf

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/techtips.html

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/tech.html

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/files/SAE_boxer.pdf

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/KnowledgeRomRaiderAndReflashingFAQ?from=Knowledge.EnginuityAndReflashingFAQ