Doing some brake work

Since it's supposed to be a rainy weekend and my 17 year old should be getting his license by next Wednesday, I'll be spending a good part of the weekend getting the Legacy ready for him (it's an early graduation present).

 

I have some concerns about the brakes. I had put new Centric ceramic pads all around last year, then this spring the passenger's front caliper stuck and overheated the brakes. I got a replacement under warranty rotor from Autozone and stuck in a set of semi metallic pads I had lying around, along with a rebuilt Centric caliper.

 

When bleeding the front brakes, I inadvertently ran the master cylinder too low and sucked a little air in the lines. I believe I bled it out, as I had a pretty solid pedal again, but I'm not sure the brakes are as responsive as before.

 

Also, I had an experience where I was doing about 65 MPH and the guy ahead stopped rather short to turn so I slammed the brakes hard and I could feel and hear them lock up (the ABS worked fine- a little too well- in the ice and snow of last winter, but I was on dry pavement this time). Could it be there is an air bubble in the lines somewhere to cause the ABS not to function, or might it be something with the new caliper?

 

What I plan to do this weekend is to put a new set of Centric ceramic pads on the front and to try bleeding the brakes as I want to change out as much of the old brake fluid as I can. I was also having a time getting a good seal on the bleeder so I had to keeping pumping the handle to keep enough vacuum to draw out any brake fluid. I would like to thoroughly bleed both the front and rear brakes.

 

When bleeding the system, which wheel should I start with and which one should I do last? (Do you start with the closest to the master cylinder and end with the furthest away?)

 

I also want to do some other stuff with the car, including doing a transmission drain and refill, and change out the heater hoses (they are likely also original, but the radiator hoses were replaced last year when the timing belt was done).

 

Hoping to get the car as reliable and safe as possible for the new driver!

if the caliper seized,

did you replace it????

 

if yes , ok.

 

bleed the brakes from the closest first,

colsest to the ABS.

LF

RF

LR

RR.

 

i did this a couple of weeks ago when replacing the rear calipers on a 98 obw.

i used a 4 ft hose that fit on the bleeder nipple,

1/8 - 3/16 inch i think.

i also used a coffee can to catch the fluid.

 

i coiled the excess hose into the coffee can,

and set the can on a 5 gal. bucket next to the caliper.

once the coffe can had a bit of fluid in it,

air could not get back in to the caliper.

 

it worked great.

the hose cost about $1.

coffee can was free.

Yep, I put a rebuilt caliper on which why I needed to bleed the brakes initially.

 

Once they were initially bled, I got ambitious and wanted to flush out more of the old fluid.

 

When doing this I ran the master cylinder too low so I introduced air into the lines.

I'm feeling there may be a small air bubble in there somewhere (maybe at the ABS unit- would that be why the ABS didn't kick in properly?)

Technically, according to Mitchell On Demand, you go RF, LR, LF, RR. Being a mechanic and doing this for a living, almost all techs i see go RR, LR, RF, LF. In addition, once im done with all 4, i leave the cap off and go around again simply opening each bleeder one at a time for about a minute or so letting the final tid bit of air from the caliper. Leaving the cap off is considered "gravity bleeding", just letting gravity do its job. I do it every time i bleed. Works great.

Thank you. Still concerned about why the ABS brakes locked up/ I've never had th elight come except at startup. Could it be air, or issue with the new caliper?

If air made it into your master cylinder, you may want to also consider bleeding it before bleeding the calipers. Had something similar happen to me when I was working on my Forester, and the brakes were just terrible until I bled the master cylinder.

Yep, I put a rebuilt caliper on which why I needed to bleed the brakes initially.

 

Once they were initially bled, I got ambitious and wanted to flush out more of the old fluid.

 

When doing this I ran the master cylinder too low so I introduced air into the lines.

I'm feeling there may be a small air bubble in there somewhere (maybe at the ABS unit- would that be why the ABS didn't kick in properly?)

 

Stevo: I'm thinking of replacing both of my front calipers and the brackets as well. If you don't mind, could I ask what calipers you went with? I'm thinking of getting these since they look pretty all inclusive as far as "plug-n-play" goes; comes with pads already, and I'll be putting on new rotors as well. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2054332&cc=1305492

 

Also, did you replace the caliper mounting bracket as well?

Since there was discussion on bleeding the brakes in this thread, I found this "how to" on a different forum. As I'm planning on replacing the calipers, I was going to do this method to prevent/minimize brake fluid coming out of the brake hose when I disconnect the hose from the caliper (instead of clamping the brake hose like some other "how to's" suggest or on the Eric the Car Guy vids). Will this method work?

 

"Before you start push the pedal down to where you feel good pressure and block it there with a stick/board/extension/whatever; that blocks off the ports in the master cylinder and won't allow any fluid from leaving the reservoir. Change out the offending caliper completely, take the pedal block off, top off the reservoir, open that bleeder and watch for the solid stream of fluid to happen. Make sure you don't let the reservoir run empty and refill to the proper level. Put the master cylinder cover back on, pump the pedal up to seat the caliper piston and recheck the fill level."

 

--Or--

 

"Don't clamp the lines. Throw a phone book onto the brake pedal before you disconnect the line. When you unbolt the hose you will have a little bit of fluid come out, but it won't keep dripping as long as the brake pedal is slightly applied. Once you have the old one [caliper] off, hook up the new one and open the bleeder. Then bring the brake pedal back up to the very top. This will allow fluid to flow into the caliper. Give it ten minutes or so and keep the brake reservoir filled up with fluid. When you get a good steady flow of brake fluid out of the bleeder, lock it down."

 

Thoughts?

I am an auto tech by trade, i do this for a living. I replace calipers on a weekly basis, and nothing will keep the fluid from flowing like good ole' fashion line clamps. Ive used em on hundreds of cars, never hurt a thing. The fluid and gravity will find a way unless its clamped.

OR, dont clamp the lines. Leave the old caliper connected, change the bracket, grease up the slides, mount the new caliper and THEN swap the hose with new brass washers over and just move quick. Move fast enough and you wont lose but a few drips.

I am an auto tech by trade, i do this for a living. I replace calipers on a weekly basis, and nothing will keep the fluid from flowing like good ole' fashion line clamps. Ive used em on hundreds of cars, never hurt a thing. The fluid and gravity will find a way unless its clamped.

OR, dont clamp the lines. Leave the old caliper connected, change the bracket, grease up the slides, mount the new caliper and THEN swap the hose with new brass washers over and just move quick. Move fast enough and you wont lose but a few drips.

 

Thanks mnstrmech.

 

I was hesitant about clamping because I understand that at some point some manufacturers started embedding a wire mesh or wire "ribbing" as part of the brake line hose. So, clamping would essentially crimp the metal mesh/ribbing, and while the rubber would resume it's old shape, the mesh wouldn't. Our generation Legacy's don't have this metal mesh/ribbing in the hose (I have what looks like the OE hoses still)? If not, then heck yeah I'm clamping!

 

If I did your second method (non-clamping), when I disconnect the hose from the caliper, it'll be more like drips coming out vs. fluid gushing out? Would you still recommend as I noted earlier from the other "how to" on pumping the pedal to "block off the cylinder ports" as well to minimize fluid from leaving the resevoir?

 

Sorry for the noob questions (and possibly hijacking this thread).

Fluid only comes out as a slow drip. Ive never seen it "run" out..

But as i said, i clamp every time on the job, never hurt a brake hose yet, and i see a LOT of poorly maintained cars.. lol. I was just suggesting options. ANY time you push the brake pedal, fluid will rush out, its just the design of hydraulic brakes in general. If your a diy, nothing wrong with losing a couple drops of fluid and not clamping. Leaving the reservoir cap on will slow the drip. Pop the cap and the drip speeds up. But thats how i gravity bleed..

Fluid only comes out as a slow drip. Ive never seen it "run" out..

But as i said, i clamp every time on the job, never hurt a brake hose yet, and i see a LOT of poorly maintained cars.. lol. I was just suggesting options. ANY time you push the brake pedal, fluid will rush out, its just the design of hydraulic brakes in general. If your a diy, nothing wrong with losing a couple drops of fluid and not clamping. Leaving the reservoir cap on will slow the drip. Pop the cap and the drip speeds up. But thats how i gravity bleed..

 

Thanks again...much appreciated.

normally when we sell a caliper replacement, we also try to get a fluid flush as well, unless it has been done in the past year. usually the answer is "i dont think its ever been done..." and they have us do a full flush with the brake fix. we dont usually upsell, but that one is a pretty worthy one to offer.

normally when we sell a caliper replacement, we also try to get a fluid flush as well, unless it has been done in the past year. usually the answer is "i dont think its ever been done..." and they have us do a full flush with the brake fix. we dont usually upsell, but that one is a pretty worthy one to offer.

 

Thats one machine we dont have. I would LOVE to have a brake flush machine. The last shop i worked for had one, made even bleeding easier. We do have a couple vacuum bleeders that use shop air to create a vacuum. My shop DOES brake flushes, but are usually sold in "maintenance packages", that is if they show up in the scheduled maintenance of that particular vehicle.

Fluid only comes out as a slow drip. Ive never seen it "run" out..

i think it was a clutch and not brakes,

but when i swapped the slave cylinder,

the fluid ran out pretty fast.

the difference was i had removed the ''cap'' to the master cylinder.

so i suggest you use ''saran wrap'' and a rubber band on the master brake cylinder to lose less fluid.

 

just a thought.

 

it also helps if you do not have to drive back to the parts store after you disconnect the caliper.

my rear lego replacements came from advance auto.

i did a 97 and a 98 in the same week.

the 4th one had a funky snap ring showing on the piston boot.

so i returned it.

it may have been ok,

but i was not willing to risk my 16yo's life on it.

the extra ''drip'' time stained my drive way.

but the reservoir on the 98 is different, bigger?, than the 97,

so i did not get air in the top end.

 

 

i here the system only holds 16 oz.

but i do not know.

Stevo: I'm thinking of replacing both of my front calipers and the brackets as well. If you don't mind, could I ask what calipers you went with? I'm thinking of getting these since they look pretty all inclusive as far as "plug-n-play" goes; comes with pads already, and I'll be putting on new rotors as well. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2054332&cc=1305492

 

Also, did you replace the caliper mounting bracket as well?

 

I bought a Centric model 147-47031 from Amazon. Centric products seem decent and I didn't have to worry about mailing a core back. It's $87.04 shipped right now (it was cheaper a few months back). I did not get a mounting bracket with it.

I bought a Centric model 147-47031 from Amazon. Centric products seem decent and I didn't have to worry about mailing a core back. It's $87.04 shipped right now (it was cheaper a few months back). I did not get a mounting bracket with it.

 

Thanks!

 

I wonder if your ABS issue might be because it needs to be "reset"? On this vid, they talk about the ABS and how the light might come on when doing brake fluid changes and the ECU may need to be reset. Maybe this might be the issue? Worth trying as it's pretty easy to do. Just a thought.

Actually no ABS light (I'll double check that the light comes on briefly at start up).

 

I did flush the brake lines pretty well and put better pads on the front and I noticed the back brakes are still beginning to lock during a hard stop on dry pavement. Seemed to lock a little more I drove. I would like to test it out on wet pavement (that's the only time the ABS has kicked in during the year I've owned the car) if it would actually rain around here.