sw686blue Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 My 2005 Legacy 2.5GT (87K miles) is spitting out these 2 codes. P013 means the 02 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2). Is that the front sensor or rear one? Does the combination of these 2 codes mean that I need to change the catalytic converter? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I would suspect the rear sensor first, and the cat second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw686blue Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yeah, my plan is to first change the O2 sensor and if I still continue to get the CEL and either or both codes, I guess I'll have to change the catalytic converter. Are you certain that Bank 1 Sensor 2 means the rear sensor? Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontGT Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Sensor 2 indicates the downstream sensor. Bank 1/2 means driver's-side/passenger side (some cars may have Bank 1 designated for the passenger side, it's a PITA) and Sensor 1/2 means upstream/downstream sensor. I.E. bank2sensor1 would mean (usually) passenger upstream o2s, etc. EDIT: While some cars may flip-flop on which bank is which, sensor 1 will ALWAYS be upstream and sensor 2 will always be downstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw686blue Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 I get it now. Thanks for the explanation. Well, I guess I'll start with the downstream O2 sensor and hopefully, I don't have to replace the catalytic converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1454 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yeah, iirc, the titans are the reverse way. Yet every other v- motor nissan made was the normal way. , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fargus04 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I just ran a diagnostic on my 05 legacy (non-turbo) and got a P0420 code as well. After doing some more digging, I found that the valve cover seals and o-rings are bad, thus causing oil to get into the spark plug tubes. My thought is that the error is being caused by the cats and o2 sensors getting full of carbon from too much oil passing into the cylinder by way of the spark plugs. Going to replace those seals, plugs and wires first before replacing anything else downstream... Trouble is, my inspection is due which means I don't have time to waste. Any suggestions on how I can clear the codes so i can pass inspection for the short term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I just ran a diagnostic on my 05 legacy (non-turbo) and got a P0420 code as well. After doing some more digging, I found that the valve cover seals and o-rings are bad, thus causing oil to get into the spark plug tubes. My thought is that the error is being caused by the cats and o2 sensors getting full of carbon from too much oil passing into the cylinder by way of the spark plugs. Going to replace those seals, plugs and wires first before replacing anything else downstream... Trouble is, my inspection is due which means I don't have time to waste. Any suggestions on how I can clear the codes so i can pass inspection for the short term? Oil should not be getting into the cylinder past the spark plug. If it is you got bigger problems. P0420 is the front sensor http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/trouble-codes-cels-26113.html It's behind the right front tire. THere is a hole in the plastic cover. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My 2005 Legacy 2.5GT (87K miles) is spitting out these 2 codes. P013 means the 02 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2). Is that the front sensor or rear one? Does the combination of these 2 codes mean that I need to change the catalytic converter? Thanks! http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/trouble-codes-cels-26113.html Its the rear sensor First, then the front one. BTW, my 05 has both new sensors and I cleaned the MAF and IAT sensors. the car hasn't run this smooth in a long time. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontGT Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/trouble-codes-cels-26113.html Its the rear sensor First, then the front one. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 P0137 - Rear O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1) Replace the rear sensor first, if the P0420 is there, then replace the front. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fargus04 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Oil should not be getting into the cylinder past the spark plug. If it is you got bigger problems. P0420 is the front sensor http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/trouble-codes-cels-26113.html It's behind the right front tire. THere is a hole in the plastic cover. Yeah, I agree that oil shouldnt be getting past the plugs... and it very well may not be. I just figured it would be a good reason why the o2 sensor is throwing an error. I already ordered a bank 1 cat and will likely end up replacing the o2 sensor as well. I pulled the downstream o2 sensor already, and didnt really show signs of burning oil, so that seems like a good thing. On a somewhat separate note, I disconnected the battery cable, code went away, now the car is running really rough and stalls out intermittently at idle. I assume its because the ECM was wiped out and the failing o2 sensor isnt helping its cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 One thing about looking for oil in the exhaust. These turbo run so hot, I doubt you'll see a sticky oil film or black carbon build up. My old O2 didn't look any different then my new one after months of driving and using as much oil as my 05 does. The old one is still in my stock DP. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fargus04 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ah, I actually just have an NA Legacy. No turbo here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted March 23, 2012 I Donated Share Posted March 23, 2012 P0420 is NOT the front sensor. It indicates that there is not enough of a difference between the front sensor output and the rear sensor output, and thus the catalytic converter is not operating properly. It may also mean there is a faulty signal from the rear sensor. It is very rare that it is the front sensor, and if the front sensor were going bad, it would cause driveability issues too. BTW, there is solid metal in between the spark plug well and the cylinder. No way oil can pass through there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch1011 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If you have a rear O2 sensor code, ignore the cat efficiency code. If the rear O2 isn't functioning properly, the pcm cannot accurately monitor the cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fargus04 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 P0420 is NOT the front sensor. It indicates that there is not enough of a difference between the front sensor output and the rear sensor output, and thus the catalytic converter is not operating properly. It may also mean there is a faulty signal from the rear sensor. It is very rare that it is the front sensor, and if the front sensor were going bad, it would cause driveability issues too. BTW, there is solid metal in between the spark plug well and the cylinder. No way oil can pass through there. Yeah, the spark plugs are threaded into the heads... i get that... and, if oil were getting in, then compression would also be getting out, causing a much larger issue. Another thought though is possibly my old and decrepit wires are causing misfires due to the oil within the tubes. Not really sure. What i do know is, I need to replace those gaskets, need a tune up desperately, more than likely need to replace the Cat (which is already ordered), and then go from there. Why its running so rough right now after restarting the ECM is somewhat beyond me though. Im guessing its because all of those bad parts aren't helping my situation, but I won't know until i start replacing them. BTW - does anyone have any experience with dropshipparts.com? I called them up and were incredibly helpful and couldnt beat the price for the bank 1 cat! 220 bucks shipped... he even offered me a jobber discount after asking if they honored AAA discounts (Napa does, so i figured they might too). Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1454 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 You don't have wires, you have coil over plugs. And it's a small possibility, and by small I mean tiny, that the oil is causing a misfire due to giving The electricity another path to ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted March 23, 2012 I Donated Share Posted March 23, 2012 You don't have wires, you have coil over plugs. And it's a small possibility, and by small I mean tiny, that the oil is causing a misfire due to giving The electricity another path to ground. He has a 2.5i, which, IIRC, has wires and a central coilpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 You don't have wires, you have coil over plugs. And it's a small possibility, and by small I mean tiny, that the oil is causing a misfire due to giving The electricity another path to ground. I also seem to recall oil is a bad conductor. That could be why the Accel Super Coil (yea, I'm that old) was oil filled as well as cooling. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1454 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Oh, then sorry. I assumed that the I used coilovers like ours. My bad for assuming. And I didn't realize that oil wasn't a conductor, so sorry again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Oh, then sorry. I assumed that the I used coilovers like ours. My bad for assuming. And I didn't realize that oil wasn't a conductor, so sorry again. That's ok, we all learn things. Feel free to ask questions. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So uhhh..... Hypothetically speaking, lets say someone put a catless up and down pipe in their wife's car and got this code. Hypothetically of course. How would one hypothetically get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So uhhh..... Hypothetically speaking, lets say someone put a catless up and down pipe in their wife's car and got this code. Hypothetically of course. How would one hypothetically get rid of it. they would hypothetically get a tune for the downpipe. the tune entails the code disable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted March 23, 2012 I Donated Share Posted March 23, 2012 If you... ahem, they... already had a Stage 2 tune but were switching from catted to catless, it's possible to delete the P0420 code using RomRaider or a Cobb AP. But a tune is really necessary for those mods anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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