Apexjapan - Legacy camber and castor settings

Paul, I'll ask you this question since you likely have the most fast road experiennce with the new Legacy (JDM version of course). What do you recommend for alignment settings that would be the best balance between performance and tire wear? I'm primarily a commuter during the week and spend some time on secondary roads on the weekend. I have a printout of the alignment specs for my car from my dealer. Thanks, Tom

Apexjapan2 will probably pipe up on this, but I got my general information from somewhere in dba's homepage. To be honest, to get to even a basic cornering upgrade setting maxed out the adjustability of the Legacy setup. Well, to back track a bit, that was with my older B4. With the new stock GT suspension setup, it was actually pretty ideal right out of the box. I'll be getting it setup a bit later, though, after we find the suspension we are looking for. I wouldn't worry too much about changing castor/camber too much, just mildly changing the values for rear camber and front castor should do more than enough. Stock GT setup is neutral (with the JDM bilstein setup), it is actually a bit hard to improve on (found that out already...). Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

Thanks Paul. Tom

Hmmm, late night here... Personally, as Paul says, I'd probably leave it alone due to the new geometry and suspension rigidity being far superior to the BE/BH era. However, if you are a heavy corner eater, then a touch more camber may help keep things flat accross the tyres. Essentially though, the key is not to lean too hard on your tyres if you want them to last (especially those fronts). For example, if you need more roll resistance to meet your driving needs, get some swaybars. If your tyres are not up to the task, go straight to S-03s, do not pass go, do not collect 200 hundred slaps :wink: If the NBTW need a tweak, track school should teach you how to use your tyres, not abuse them :) HTH

Of course, if you are going to live on a track, a fully adjustable set up, rock hard and huge camber is the way to go, along with schticky R compounds. Set ups get very personal due to handling preferences, and any adjustment is going to have an equal and oppsite effect. The owner/driver has to be comfortable with that, and some times only positives result, but that is rare. I'd really have to drive a new USDM Legacy to get a feel for my preferences with its particular suspension tune though. It may be more appropriate for some more camber being softer than JDM turbos, but I'd probably immediately go for swaybars and tyres from what I've heard to date. Once again, HTH.

Thanks apexers. Adding some additional camber was an easy way to keep the front end of my WRX planted. The greater sophistication of the new Legacy raised some questions. Tom

Would you go positive on the front and negative camber on the rear? And would fully adjustable coil-overs help to give the right front end balance for both track and road should you use the car in this way? Thanks in advance Paul & apexjapan2 Adam.

The Legacy's rear camber is not adjustable, per Subaru. You could add camber bolts if you were so inclined. Kevin

Tom, You were right to be doubtful - with 6 degrees of caster on the front, there should be plenty of dynamic camber, but if the tuning is soft, it will do "the Suby flop" as I call it, and scrub the living daylights out of that outside front when pushed hard if you aren't careful (that's what happens on the 3.0R, with its softer settings in Japan). The Std GT here is pretty good, but still puts a fair bit of heat into those fronts, and as has been done to death, the spec B gets higher rates all round and is eaisiest on its rubber. I like that personally because I tend to corner pretty hard :wink: Adam, M8ey - dodge the positive camber at all costs IMHO. I find that IS the biggest killer of tyres on Scoobs as the weight shift (if done aggressively/too fast for the car to stay flat) will rock it onto that outside front quite violently. Std. alignment can then result in the outside edge getting eaten, along with some of the inside of the inner tyre too (that goes for all early cars, as well as the new one). That is one reason why I suggested ARBs above - I find it helps the tyres when you keep a car flatter on "most vehicles" I've driven (that goes for Commodores as well as Skylines and Scoobies). If you only do a rear ARB, the effect will be slight, front and rear should keep things well under control if you can live with the slightly tighter ride that stiffer cross linking of the suspension will result in. I generally keep about half a degree more camber on the front than rear, but that is on the caster challenged BE, but since I've done that on just about every car I've ever had, I'd probably go the same again... (habit!!) Current settings: front neg 1.5 deg, rear 1, toe zero all round. With the many little mods I've done so far, I think I've made the BE5 B rev into a decent "corner carver" ( :wink: ). If you are going to track your car, personally I'd stick ARBs on it first - the Aussie spec suspension is defo soft on roll control IMHO. Links would have to go as they genuinely suck (a few other mods need doing too of course, but I am sure you know that). I'd have to give Whiteline my vote for sure - they seem to be designed to last a bit, while others have "race tech" or whatever and are severely compromised as a result (I've had a "supplier" on one board go bananas over me slagging off a certain style of joint for road use, and come to think of it, a certain style of swaybar, so I'll keep quiet on them :wink: ). Oneday Paul and I may just have to do a topic: "The ultimate [color=blue]things we get to see in the shop of a serious tuner that people go to AFTER they've dumped huge money on the big brand names[/color] and finally want stuff that actually works post" :wink: NO tuner's would ever talk to us again, but the reading could be funny :lol: Wow - getting Paul like with the length of thses posts :o <I ain't gonna blame no poor, defenceless gin bottle> :D Hope you find something useful in all that, somewhere :) Cheers :)

Thanks so much for the advice, with you guys over there having the ability to actually tune the car, it gives us the opportunity to weigh up the options so thanks. Im not sure if I will run any toe or camber but just wanted the low down. You see the HRT V8 Supercars running massive toe at the front but Im sure that is for the sole purpose of cancelling out under and over steer and their tyre budget is a little larger than mine :) :) :) Thanks again for the info Adam.

[quote name='gtguy']The Legacy's rear camber is not adjustable, per Subaru. You could add camber bolts if you were so inclined. Kevin[/quote] Eccentric bolts are a std feature in my budget for a new car :wink: (well, one that doesn't have a live rear end, that is) Also Adam, sorry, adjustable coilovers can indeed be used to help, but do them all round. The interesting things about them is how the huge number of adjustments on most just get the poor owner into trouble often. Had one STi 4 owner buddy put a hot "big brand" set up in his car years ago, and it was horrible. Ride was so bad it affected your vision :lol: He spent ages trying to sort the handling with them, but all they did was make his car like a certain Mitsi product, and got a nasty habit of skipping due to the tyres bouncing around due to hitting white lines and other road markings (OK, I may be overdoing it a bit!). It was truly diabolical in the wet!! :o I'd stick to a conservative upgrade like KYB IMHO. They are based on JDM, and go up from there. Nothing too aggro unless you go for the race spec stuff, but BUZZ spec certainly made the interior of an old Evo a buddy had rattle and hum :wink: Super Street should be pretty decent (I believe the adjustable STi struts are based on these, but I could be wrong). Phew - gotta run now! CHeers :)

Mucho thanks. Confirms a few things and gives some food for thought. Tom

I'm really interested in how the JDM GT compares to the NADM GT in terms of suspension... spring rates, damper rates and anti-roll bar sizes... AND, most importantly, what that means in the real world for handling and ride differences between the two. The JDM GT solution -- on the surface -- appeals more to me than the Spec B. But it's all a matter of how it compares to the NADM GT. (NADM = North American. Why refer to it as the USDM when Canada gets the same suspension tune?)

LOL - let's not get too pedantic on definitions :wink: As in, there is a DM Legacy for Nth America - it is built there. So how can an import be US[color=red]D[/color]M? Like the Rex... (gets out teacup, starts to stir up a storm - oops, this isn't Nabisco :lol: ). <fflame suit on> :) Back to your regular programming :wink: As for settings, how about I come over and test a car or 2? Volunteers? :wink:

Yeah, yeah... :D As for the test, well, in order to evaluate them properly, you'd have to bring a JDM 2.0 GT with you so we could test them back-to-back. ;)

[quote name='racerdave']I'm really interested in how the JDM GT compares to the NADM GT in terms of suspension... spring rates, damper rates and anti-roll bar sizes... AND, most importantly, what that means in the real world for handling and ride differences between the two. The JDM GT solution -- on the surface -- appeals more to me than the Spec B. But it's all a matter of how it compares to the NADM GT. (NADM = North American. Why refer to it as the USDM when Canada gets the same suspension tune?)[/quote] USDM because that's where it's built....

Ok, ok, USDM, JDM, whatever. I still want to know about the specific spring rate differences, anti-roll bar differences and shock differences between the JDM and USDM GT's...

[quote name='racerdave']Ok, ok, USDM, JDM, whatever. I still want to know about the specific spring rate differences, anti-roll bar differences and shock differences between the JDM and USDM GT's...[/quote] I'm instrested too. I guess the only real way is to compare them directly.

I would hope some of those Japanese tuners (apexi?) that have USDM cars for parts fitment (Paul Hansen knows who they are) would be able to tell us the differences between the JDM GT suspension and USDM suspension, as they should be fairly intimate with both versions.

[quote name='WRXTom']Paul, I'll ask you this question since you likely have the most fast road experiennce with the new Legacy (JDM version of course). What do you recommend for alignment settings that would be the best balance between performance and tire wear? I'm primarily a commuter during the week and spend some time on secondary roads on the weekend. I have a printout of the alignment specs for my car from my dealer. Thanks, Tom[/quote] What are the factory specs for front camber on the GT?