2005 Legacy GT Ltd - Engine

Hey all,

On Tuesday, May 12th, during my ride to work my 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Ltd died on me. I was making a turn, braked, yielded and then tried to speed up. It had no acceleration. I pulled over immediately and had it towed to the dealership.

They said the cause was from no oil - "dry". The engine had seized! Wouldn't I have warning signs of something so major? No burning, no smell, no engine warning light or oil warning light. They said they can't find any leak or problem, it just dried up. The dealership that has it now did my last oil change - about 4500 miles ago. Maybe pushing it a little bit I know - but would oil dry up completely that quick?

Obviously the power train warranty is 60,000 miles but mine is at 60,900 miles. The dealer said no matter the cause of this I am stuck with the bill. He gave me estimates: $5K used engine, $9K "new" engine, or $2,500 trade in. I told him to look for a used engine as I see that as my only option. No way am I putting in a $9K engine. He called today and said he cannot find a used engine and will try again later next week! How long can I wait - rental cars are NOT cheap.

I decided to call Subaru corporate myself. I started a investigation, etc. Hopefully they get back to me within a few days. They said they would call the dealer, the local Subaru rep. and discuss the issue and hopefully get back to me Monday.

In May of 2008 (eerie - I know), my turbo blew. They said the baja (???) bolt blew and leaked all the engine oil into the turbo. I tried my best to complain about having two MAJOR problems within 1 year.

Now that I've told you my horrific story, please help with any questions you can:

Is the oil scenario I described possible?

Will I have any luck with Subaru paying any amount ("goodwill" she called it)?

Did my blown turbo have any effect (even though it was 1 year ago)?

If Subaru blows me off is there anything else I can do?

Thanks a lot for any feedback. I am at a loss. I didn't expect to pay $32,000 for a great car and have to replace a full turbo and a full engine before 60,000 miles!

Welcome to the site, Mr first post.

Sorry to here about your troubles. I have always been one to check my weekly or every other week. I don't think it's that abnormal for these engines to use oil. My Honda's didn't but all 3 of my Subaru's have used a little oil.

I'm surprised your oil light didn't come on, may be there's a problem with it.

Good Luck, keep us updated.

Were you checking your engine oil level at every fuel fill-up as per the owners manual?

On May 2nd (10 days prior) I cleaned the inside/outside of the car, topped off washer fluid and checked my oil. It seemed perfectly normal - everything did.

I know it's a dealership but I really hate the idea of basing such an expensive repair without a second opinion. Though, I would have to get it towed 25 miles just to have it rechecked. I trust the mechanic would be able to find a difficult and hidden leak, if one was present?

Welcome to the site, Mr first post.

 

Sorry to here about your troubles. I have always been one to check my weekly or every other week. I don't think it's that abnormal for these engines to use oil. My Honda's didn't but all 3 of my Subaru's have used a little oil.

 

I'm surprised your oil light didn't come on, may be there's a problem with it.

 

Good Luck, keep us updated.

Thanks - I thought the same thing about the warning light. I just don't see any way of proving its functionality at this point.

I don't know the full story with your dealer, or with your car, but the prices quoted are ridiculously high. A brand-new short block is only about $2,000. A long block is more expensive - but not that much more expensive.

To be honest, if you ran dry on oil in the last 4500 miles, and it was your dealer that did the last oil change, I'd find out what they did wrong. Because there is no way you'd burn through that much oil in 4500 miles. Find out if the oil drain bolt fell out or similar.

I've got a Ford truck w/302 that burns through a quart of oil every 100 miles. That's the improved version, it was going through a quart of oil every 50 miles before I made my brother do the valve stem seals. The point? It's very easy to tell where and how the oil is going. It's going out the rear pipe, and you can see it. If it was coming out the bottom of the engine, you would see it as well. Oil doesn't just disappear.

Unless a mechanic at the dealer who did the oil change didn't tighten up the oil drain bolt completely, and it started coming off slowly. Then just fell off and dumped all the oil at once while you were driving, which had the engine seize up quickly.

That's why you need to have a serious, heartfelt discussion with your dealer, if they are the ones that changed the oil, on why your car suddenly was dry 4500 miles later. I have a feeling that they are trying to avoid that discussion from what you have written so far, if we have all the details correct.

Next - find out what has exactly seized on the engine. The entire engine isn't going to seize up, parts of it are. Find out what parts, and make sure only those parts are being replaced. If it's just the shortblock, and the heads are ok, just replace the shortblock.

Whatever you do, don't let the dealership pressure you into something you don't want to do. Like that $2,500.00 trade in. If I understand that correctly, then the dealer is attempting to bend you over and do you senseless - they'll get much, much more money out of the car just in parts alone, much less just by having somebody quickly fix the engine.

Regards,

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

I don't know the full story with your dealer, or with your car, but the prices quoted are ridiculously high. A brand-new short block is only about $2,000. A long block is more expensive - but not that much more expensive.

 

To be honest, if you ran dry on oil in the last 4500 miles, and it was your dealer that did the last oil change, I'd find out what they did wrong. Because there is no way you'd burn through that much oil in 4500 miles. Find out if the oil drain bolt fell out or similar.

Thanks for that info - I thought it was over priced as well. That's another reason I pulled in SOA - maybe they can at least give me a real price and keep the dealer some-what honest. I also requested SOA to get to the bottom of the cause since the dealer was being very, very vague. Since this dealer was the one who performed the last oil change I thought getting a 3rd party (SOA) would be to my benefit. If the dealer caused the problem it's in his obvious benefit to lie. SOA might be kinda biased but it's cheaper than using a lawyer - for now.

Hopefully SOA can get me the cause of this, the real pricing, and some or all financial help.

I've got a Ford truck w/302 that burns through a quart of oil every 100 miles. That's the improved version, it was going through a quart of oil every 50 miles before I made my brother do the valve stem seals. The point? It's very easy to tell where and how the oil is going. It's going out the rear pipe, and you can see it. If it was coming out the bottom of the engine, you would see it as well. Oil doesn't just disappear.

 

Unless a mechanic at the dealer who did the oil change didn't tighten up the oil drain bolt completely, and it started coming off slowly. Then just fell off and dumped all the oil at once while you were driving, which had the engine seize up quickly.

 

That's why you need to have a serious, heartfelt discussion with your dealer, if they are the ones that changed the oil, on why your car suddenly was dry 4500 miles later. I have a feeling that they are trying to avoid that discussion from what you have written so far, if we have all the details correct.

 

Next - find out what has exactly seized on the engine. The entire engine isn't going to seize up, parts of it are. Find out what parts, and make sure only those parts are being replaced. If it's just the shortblock, and the heads are ok, just replace the shortblock.

 

Whatever you do, don't let the dealership pressure you into something you don't want to do. Like that $2,500.00 trade in. If I understand that correctly, then the dealer is attempting to bend you over and do you senseless - they'll get much, much more money out of the car just in parts alone, much less just by having somebody quickly fix the engine.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

www.avoturboworld.com

Awesome - thanks a lot! I don't know a ton about cars so I am out of my league. I will definitly call him and ask exactly what parts need replaced. He simply said "The engine needs replaced - it seized up." If it helps: when this occured the engine was still running and I had very slight acceleration - about 15 MPH max when floored. I pulled over voluntarily and had it towed.

I agree about the trade-in. When he told me that I immediately became suspicious and decided I cant trust him. His rational was that if he were to buy it from me he would be "forced" to put a "new" engine in, $9K according to him, so he took that off the trade-in value.

Thanks again!!!

Another update...

I just got a call from the dealerships top manager. Really nice guy - we spoke for 15 minutes. I was able to ask the questions you suggested.

What they mean by "new" engine is reassembled from scratch. New block, cams, heads, shafts, etc and have a tech assemble it. He said theres no way he would only replace the block because in a month the cams, shafts, etc could go up. He didn't technically tell me what absolutely needed replaced - just that his dealership would only do all or nothing. He restated a $9K price tag with a POSSIBLE goodwill offer of $7500 to help me out.

They still can't find a used motor.

The manager called me because SOA had called him and the local area representative. They had a discussion and denied helping me in any way. The basis was that the manager only had records from his own shop - not all the subaru dealers. They apparently need a full life time history not just the recent history. Tomorrow I will be dropping off all my service records. He said if I can show proof of an oil change every 7500 miles (which I can) then they would do it all for free.

I still didn't get a reason for my oil dissapearing - i'll get that from him in person tomorrow.

Hopefully some good news tomorrow...thanks all.

I have an 05 GT with 50k on it and it does consume oil. There are no visible leaks and no smoke is coming out. On average I have to add about 1qt every 3k miles. I notice it eats more if driven hard. Once I noticed my oil was at min just after 1 week after oil change done by dealer. Too bad I didn't check the level right after the change which I normally do, so I don't know if the dealer somehow forgot to change oil at all, did not put in enough of it, or it just "evaportated" during that week. I tend to think the dealer screwed up. It was too late to complain so I just topped it off and did the next change sooner. Given my experience I would not be surprised if your engine was running dry already at 4500, sensors do go out of order fairly oftern, so perhaps your was busted and you got no advance warning.

Wondering what is considered to be the norm in terms of oil consumption. Others having similar experience with our cars?

Were you checking your engine oil level at every fuel fill-up as per the owners manual?

FWIW, I have 48k on my 06 and have never checked the oil. I have it changed every 3k by the dealer and go with it.

The bottomline is the car should never run dry.

If you're only 900 miles over your power train I'm sure SOA will work with you. I had an issue with a grand cherokee (rear end went) at 37K. I called corporate and they took care of 90% of the cost.

Bitch and moan about it. Cars aren't selling much these days and i would think corporate would want to keep as many customers as possible.

However it plays out - good luck with everything.

I just read a story about missing oil on cartalk.com http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/2009/February/index.html

It was a 1998 Explorer that was buring oil and the owners didn't notice until they took it in for oil changes.

I just read a story about missing oil on cartalk.com http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/2009/February/index.html

 

It was a 1998 Explorer that was buring oil and the owners didn't notice until they took it in for oil changes.

Thanks - interesting article. From what I gathered is if oil is disappearing it's already too late and there's a major problem.

I got a full service history of my vehicle - had to call like 11 places that have done work. I went through it all with great details.

I noticed this:

Mileage Work Done

56,500 Oil change, transmission flushed and liquid topped off

58,000 Wheel bearing replaced, oil leak fixed (bad cam seal - see below)

58,505 Full State Inspection

The notes left my the mechanic (from the dealership) about the oil leak stated "visible oil leakage on ground, leaky cam seal, poor seal, replaced left cam seal, under warranty".

This makes me wonder if the leak caused my engine oil to get low and since they never checked the oil after the fix that perhaps it was a ticking time bomb. I never found the oil leak - it was something the mechanic spotted. They didn't even tell me until payment time when they spend the normal 2 seconds going over the invoice. If it's free warranty work they never ask for permission.

Or maybe there was more to the problem than a bad cam seal.

That price is insanely out of line. If SOA won't help you pull it out of there and find a reputable shop to find you a used engine. I'd at least tear it down and check the heads to see if there is any damage from oil starvation. If not, you could get a short block and a new turbo. I'm sure the turbo is gone too.

My guess is the turbo was sending the oil through the motor. My car uses a quart every 1000 miles or so.....thus 4500 miles it would be dry. My car never burned a drop of oil until I installed my hybrid VF40 18g. The turbo works perfectly fine, it just uses oil. IHI turbos are terds in my opinion.

And the oil warning light should have come on anyway. Roll the key on and see if the light works during the bulb check. If not, there is your ammunition to fight SOA.

Good luck.

Not checking engine oil can turn into a very expensive education lesson. Usually every third fillup works.

My guess the engine was never topped up at last oil change correctly and normal burning or abnormal lowered the level. Remember less oil means the engine oil fails much easier as it is worked harder. The harder it is worked the more chances of burning it off.

At the very least check the engine oil level shortly after an oil change.

Lastly an oil light indicates low oil pressure not low oil level. It is not directly proportional to oil level.

Good luck.

Thanks for all the replies - no update...yet.

Does anyone have any idea what a used engine would have on the trade-in value? If I was able to find an engine around the same mileage (60K)? I pretty much refuse to put in a new engine - I'd rather buy a new car and have this one sit until I can find a used engine and then trade it in. Though I love my car...renting a car while waiting is not very smart ($250/week!).