A worthy replacement for the leggy?

There was a time when I really liked my car, but I can't stand the oil consumption and hesitation/stumbles anymore. I’d keep this car for a many more years if it weren't for these issues. I’m having a tough time finding a worthy replacement though and could use some input. Here is what I’m looking for. Please stay on topic.

 

A midsize sedan around 2005 of newer

Around $20k or less

Comparable to stage 2 or fairly easily modded to the same performance.

AWD, but I might settle for RWD

Manual, but I might settle for an auto

I don' want to go without AWD and a MT at the same time though

Combined MPG at 20 MPG or better.

My list so far. Any other options, pros or cons?

 

335xi – More than 20k

A4/S4 –Electrical gremlins (Are they really that bad)

G35 x – No manual

S60-R – Few aftermarket options and electrical gremlins (Are they really that bad)

Lancer Ralliart – More than 20k and no manual

Mazdaspeed6 – Snapping rods even stock (has this been resolved)

Getting the same performance out of a 325 will be difficult because of its N/A 6 cylinder. I've driven them awhile back and was impressed with the typical silkiness of the BMW 6-cylinder and the sure-footed chassis (to be expected).

 

I've driven quite a few G35Xs and they've always felt a tad low on low-end torque (although our LGTs have no torque below the 2.5-3K mark either). I've found that Infiniti uses a pretty aggressive throttle tip-in which kind of hides the lack of low end a bit. The 5-speed auto in them doesn't really help anything either. If you were willing to go RWD, you could find a G35 6mt sedan, and that would be a pretty serious contender. We own a G37X sedan. While it's not what you are looking for I will say it's got some low-end where the 3.5L engine was lacking, and the new 7-speed helps that as well. I do find the automatic to be a little jerky and less refined than the BMW automatics though, or most other modern auto slushboxes.

 

As far as your forced induction offerings I have a bit of experience in the VW world (my GTI had the same 2.0T that's in the Audi). The 2.0T is a phenomenal mill and it responds very well to mods. I still think my stage 2 2.0T had more low end grunt than my stage 2 LGT. The torque from the 2.0T comes on around 1,900 RPM and it pulls strong. I never had a single problem with mine. I know quote a few modded Audi owners and most of them have had trouble-free ownership of their vehicles in recent years. There are certain "to be expected" problems, but you have those with every vehicle.

 

I'll never touch a Volvo. Everyone I know has had major headaches with theirs and it's turned me off from ever wanting to go near one. My buddy just sold his 2004 S60 2.5T for a 2008 SpecB because it would randomly not start on him. He'd turn the key, hear nothing and would be stranded. The car would randomly start days later, only to repeat the same problem within days or weeks. After months of searching, three Volvo dealers and some independent Volvo specialists couldn't find the problem. Volvo of America told him it's not their problem and there's nothing they can do and one dealer told him to never bring the car back to them because they don't want to deal with it. I briefly considered an S60R three years ago, but found it was too heavy and not exactly what I was looking for in a car.

 

I can't speak much for the MS6 except what I've heard from various people. I know a few people that speak highly of them and a few people that say they're a disappointment.

 

As far as the Mitsubishi, I've never considered one because. As you say, there's no manual on the Ralliart (or anything above a base model Evo for that matter). My roommate has a base Lancer (I know, not a fair comparison,) but he thinks the interior looks and feels incredibly cheap.

Thanks for the input. I would add the G37x to my list if a MT was available, but for the money I would lean towards the 335xi. I know all cars will have their own common quirky issue, but what I really want to avoid is major obviously. I am a DIYer and don't mind working on things I just don’t want to have to every couple months or so especially if they are costly. The S4 seems like good option and I'm sure they have improved over time. I just remember years ago a group of my friends that are VW Audi fans were talking about why they like their cars and then they broke into a discussion about all the problems they were having . What stage 2 mods did your GTI have and did power drop off much at the top? Also do you have any suggestions on years to avoid with the A4 and will the clutch hold at stage2?

You might want to do what I did... wait for it....look for a 09 SpecB.

 

I LOVE the 6 speed.

I have had many common problems and it will be a long time before would be willing to buy another Subie if ever. It's too bad if it weren’t for these two significant problems this car would be the perfect car for me and I would have kept it for a very long time.

Thanks for the input. I would add the G37x to my list if a MT was available, but for the money I would lean towards the 335xi. I know all cars will have their own common quirky issue, but what I really want to avoid is major obviously. I am a DIYer and don't mind working on things I just don’t want to have to every couple months or so especially if they are costly. The S4 seems like good option and I'm sure they have improved over time. I just remember years ago a group of my friends that are VW Audi fans were talking about why they like their cars and then they broke into a discussion about all the problems they were having . What stage 2 mods did your GTI have and did power drop off much at the top? Also do you have any suggestions on years to avoid with the A4 and will the clutch hold at stage2?

I also wish Infiniti would pair a manual and AWD together. My only guess is they don't see the market for it.

 

I know the common problems for the 2.0T are blown diverter valves (happened to me, it was a $40 and 2 minute fix for an OEM part, although I later replaced it with aftermarket) and I also heard of a bunch of people having coil packs fail. I've been away from the VW world for so long I've forgotten what else is known to go wrong with them. With that said, mine ran absolutely trouble free for 65K hard miles making 22PSI boost. The guy that bought the car after me has over 100K on it and the last I talked to him he didn't have any problems other than the turbo going around 100K.

 

I had REVO Stage 2 software, ATP downpipe, GHL catback, Patec coil overs, Neuspeed Intake, Forge upgraded mechanical diverter valve and a few other little things on my car. The car pulled pretty hard to the top end, although you could feel power falling off as you got closer to redline. What I loved was the low end grunt below 2,000 RPM though. I like the "usable power" to be strong, so low end has always been a big thing for me. Tooling around town I hardly ever had to downshift, just put your foot in it an go.

 

Your best bet with the A4 is a B7 with the 2.0T. The 1.8T is maintenance hungry and problem prone. The B8 is just a dog, in my opinion. The changes across the B7 years are pretty minor (if I remember correctly).

 

I never had to replace my clutch and neither did the guy who bought my car after me... Yet somehow I had to replace my Subaru clutch at 65K .

Jetta TDI cup?

I have had many common problems and it will be a long time before would be willing to buy another Subie if ever. It's too bad if it weren’t for these two significant problems this car would be the perfect car for me and I would have kept it for a very long time.

 

Kind of where I am with my 05gt wagon. I have been where you are. I think a lot of us are there or will be soon. It's very hard to find a worthy replacement.

 

Audi's have there issues too. There are not many cars that have a AWD system this good.

 

It's a bang for the buck thing.

 

Good Luck

Absolutely none of those options you listed would satisfy my replacement.

 

The BMW is easily the choice of the list, but far from the cost range.

 

The Audi bothers me a little. I ALMOST bought a V8 S4 before getting my Outback. I was put off by nearly having to pull the engine to replace belts on it. I just wasn't interested in a car that would REQUIRE having to take the car to someone else for repair. It sure was powerful, and EXTREMELY smooth. The interior was dated, but Quattro is so much more advanced than Subaru's VC AWD that it completely blows it out of the water. The 6MT felt great, and the car as a whole was VERY refined. It was everything that a luxury, all-weather, sports car should be and more. But, it was heavy and you could tell. Shitty fuel economy is par for the V8 course as well. The sound-track is enough to make your heart beat in RPM, and the bark at high RPM is addictive. There is a lot of soul in that car. I don't know much about the TT-V6 models, but I can't imagine them being as refined as the V8 model.

 

The Infiniti will leave you wanting much much more. Period.

 

The Volvo has an AWD system to rival... nothing. It just sucks. A stock S60 is about as fast as a stock or Stage-1 LGT. I out-gunned one for an on-ramp entrance, and wasn't impressed with what 300hp does in a car like that. Seemed like a waste. I didn't beat him, but he was unable to get ahead of me enough to pull into the lane.

 

The Lancer - No.

 

The MS6. If it has the same motor as the MS3, then you'd better keep it stock. Those con-rods twist with a well placed insult, let alone a hint of higher boost. AWD in the MS6 sucks, so don't expect to actually have any benefit from it. You'd be better off getting an MS3 with Mazdaspeed coilovers, and the OEM option performance bits (catback and intake). Those cars are tons of fun if you don't go dicking with them.

 

Personally, I'd consider a V8 S4 over any of the other options. Unless you can find a 335XI in your price range.

 

If you want a suggestion outside of your list, look into an E39 M5. Prices have dropped, and 75,000 miles on that car is almost nothing. They are one of the best sounding V8's on the planet, and they are SO much fun to drive. It's impossible to drive one and not be all giggly. They are outside your year range, but are definitely within your budget. An 03 with 70k miles will set you back around $16-18k I'd think.

Absolutely none of those options you listed would satisfy my replacement.

 

The BMW is easily the choice of the list, but far from the cost range.

 

The Audi bothers me a little. I ALMOST bought a V8 S4 before getting my Outback. I was put off by nearly having to pull the engine to replace belts on it. I just wasn't interested in a car that would REQUIRE having to take the car to someone else for repair. It sure was powerful, and EXTREMELY smooth. The interior was dated, but Quattro is so much more advanced than Subaru's VC AWD that it completely blows it out of the water. The 6MT felt great, and the car as a whole was VERY refined. It was everything that a luxury, all-weather, sports car should be and more. But, it was heavy and you could tell. Shitty fuel economy is par for the V8 course as well. The sound-track is enough to make your heart beat in RPM, and the bark at high RPM is addictive. There is a lot of soul in that car. I don't know much about the TT-V6 models, but I can't imagine them being as refined as the V8 model.

 

The Infiniti will leave you wanting much much more. Period.

 

The Volvo has an AWD system to rival... nothing. It just sucks. A stock S60 is about as fast as a stock or Stage-1 LGT. I out-gunned one for an on-ramp entrance, and wasn't impressed with what 300hp does in a car like that. Seemed like a waste. I didn't beat him, but he was unable to get ahead of me enough to pull into the lane.

 

The Lancer - No.

 

The MS6. If it has the same motor as the MS3, then you'd better keep it stock. Those con-rods twist with a well placed insult, let alone a hint of higher boost. AWD in the MS6 sucks, so don't expect to actually have any benefit from it. You'd be better off getting an MS3 with Mazdaspeed coilovers, and the OEM option performance bits (catback and intake). Those cars are tons of fun if you don't go dicking with them.

 

Personally, I'd consider a V8 S4 over any of the other options. Unless you can find a 335XI in your price range.

 

If you want a suggestion outside of your list, look into an E39 M5. Prices have dropped, and 75,000 miles on that car is almost nothing. They are one of the best sounding V8's on the planet, and they are SO much fun to drive. It's impossible to drive one and not be all giggly. They are outside your year range, but are definitely within your budget. An 03 with 70k miles will set you back around $16-18k I'd think.

 

That's interesting, you and I did the exact same thing regarding a B7 V8 S4. I took my friend's out for a drive and fell in love with it for the reasons you did, but I still ended up buying a Subaru. The V8 S4 was still new when I looked and was out of my price range as a result. I have a feeling I would be driving one if I could have picked one up for an affordable price.

 

The Audi system isn't really leaps and bounds ahead of Subaru, it's actually very similar (at least to the MT Subarus). The LGT uses a viscous center and rear differential with an open front. Audi's Quattro used to use three Torsen differentials, but just like other manufactures Audi began using EDLs in front and back instead of a true LSD. The B7 S4 uses the Quattro V system which is uses a Torsen center differential to split power 40:60 front-rear. It can move up to 80% of the torque to one axle using a 4:1 center differential. With the aid of ESP, up to 100% of the torque can be transferred to one axle. The front and rear use an open "EDL" just like most new AWD cars have turned to as a LSD replacement.

 

I wouldn't say the Infiniti will leave you wanting more. Infiniti really has come a long way with their cars and they really do almost rival BMW now. When you factor in their price it's easy to see why they are doing so well. What does BMW offer that sets them so far ahead of their competition now... not much, anymore. The Infiniti is a solid buy that probably won't leave people disappointed. We love our Inifniti, even after owning a BMW 328is and BMW 535. I'm not trying to knock your opinion at all, just giving the OP mine as well .

 

Smart man to pick an e39 M5. Quick, affordable now, fairly solid vehicle and what I think is the best looking 5-series body-- ever. I was looking at one the other day just for fun, and they really are a great car. It's just a question of do you want to be in something that old? The interior looks dated, it lacks a lot of new technology and even though it's quick, some 4-banger turbos will still give it a good run for its money (0-60 for the e39 M5 is around 4.8-5.1), although that makes it quicker in stock form than any of the cars the OP is looking at.

 

OP: You can listen to us and gather as much advice as you want-- it's a smart thing to do, but definitely go out and drive them all, even if you think you won't want it or aren't serious about it. Who knows, something my surprise you about any one of these cars.

I don't really want to get into an argument of AWD systems, but without a doubt Audi's Quattro is leaps and bounds ahead of Subaru's 5MT Viscous AWD system.

 

When it comes to electronic control, the dividing lines blur. But from a mechanical standpoint, Quattro is the best possible approach to AWD.

 

I've actually driven a Subaru with Quattro (3 Torsen diffs), and it is WORLDS different than standard. It's so much better, it's comical.

 

Now, an STi with helical front and rear differentials is a whole different beast. I can easily see that being one of the most well-rounded possible setups, though the center diff in an STi won't react as quickly as a helical center diff will.

 

One of the downsides to Quattro (and torsen front diffs in general) is that they can numb steering feel. Audi seems to have done a good job with managing this, though. The B7 S4 doesn't feel AWD, RWD, or FWD. It feels as though it is being propelled by wind. Very, very, very high speed wind.

I drove a coworker’s e39 M5 a few times and it was a blast when dry, but disappointing and a little scary when wet. I’d be willing to pay a little more for a 335xi, but even then they are currently out of my range unless I find a stellar deal. The stats on the B7 A4 Stage 2 don't seem to be that great compared to the LGT stage 2, but the low end may offset that as far as the driving experience. I guess I'll have to drive on and find out. As for the Infinity I'd much rather have a MT, but being able to trade cars with my wife would be nice one in a while too.

I don't really want to get into an argument of AWD systems, but without a doubt Audi's Quattro is leaps and bounds ahead of Subaru's 5MT Viscous AWD system.

 

When it comes to electronic control, the dividing lines blur. But from a mechanical standpoint, Quattro is the best possible approach to AWD.

 

I've actually driven a Subaru with Quattro (3 Torsen diffs), and it is WORLDS different than standard. It's so much better, it's comical.

 

Now, an STi with helical front and rear differentials is a whole different beast. I can easily see that being one of the most well-rounded possible setups, though the center diff in an STi won't react as quickly as a helical center diff will.

 

One of the downsides to Quattro (and torsen front diffs in general) is that they can numb steering feel. Audi seems to have done a good job with managing this, though. The B7 S4 doesn't feel AWD, RWD, or FWD. It feels as though it is being propelled by wind. Very, very, very high speed wind.

Isn't the STI's factory AWD setup essentially like the Quattro system used in the Audi V8? The STI (as far as I understand) uses three Torsen LSDs located front, center and rear, which as far as I know is exactly like Quattro system in the 1988-1994 Audi V8.

 

Starting with Quattro Version 4, which they started using in 1995, Audi switched to open front and rear differentials that are controlled by electronics (called "EDL" or electronic differential lock). I understand why Subaru's system still lacks when compared to this (Audi offers traction management in the front as well as the rear), but isn't it pretty darn close?

 

Our Subarus use a viscous center differential, so it will respond slower than Audi's Torsen differential, but we can still move power front to rear. The 5MT LGT uses a viscous LSD out back, so again there's a lag before power is transferred, but the LGT and STI use real differentials out back, not an "EDL" like Audi. The SpecB even uses a Torsen rear LSD. Where the Subaru system really lacks is at the front end (unless you're driving an STI). We have open differentials up front and obviously power will go to the wheel with least resistance.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just confused. How is it that Quattro with only one true LSD (center) is better than a vehicle with two or three LSDs? Wouldn't the Audi system and Subaru system be fairly close? The Audi can move power front to back quicker because of its Torsen center differential, and it also has an advantage up front because of the EDL it uses, but the Subaru system uses a true LSD out back to move power from side-to-side. Does the modern "EDL" beat using a true LSD?

 

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, I'm just confused as to why Quattro is so much better than some of the Subaru systems.

I drove a coworker’s e39 M5 a few times and it was a blast when dry, but disappointing and a little scary when wet. I’d be willing to pay a little more for a 335xi, but even then they are currently out of my range unless I find a stellar deal. The stats on the B7 A4 Stage 2 don't seem to be that great compared to the LGT stage 2, but the low end may offset that as far as the driving experience. I guess I'll have to drive on and find out. As for the Infinity I'd much rather have a MT, but being able to trade cars with my wife would be nice one in a while too.

Stage 1 will give you an additional 50-ish HP and about 90 lbft torque. Stage 2 will add about 15-20% more if I remember correctly.

 

That would bring the 2.0T up to about 285-300HP and 330ish lbtq.

At the wheels or crank?

At the wheels or crank?

Whoops, I should have cleared that up -- those numbers are crank.

Ok that makes more sense. I read a few posts where people were trying to dip into the 5's for 0-60 with a stage 2. Not that 0-60 is the only indicator of the fun factor, but ideally I don't want a significantly slower car. It sound like it’s worth a test drive though.

Ok that makes more sense. I read a few posts where people were trying to dip into the 5's for 0-60 with a stage 2. Not that 0-60 is the only indicator of the fun factor, but ideally I don't want a significantly slower car. It sound like it’s worth a test drive though.

Wow, I'd expect them to be in the 5s while Stage 1. I guess I never realized how much heavier the A4 is than the GTI, plus there's the drivetrain loss of the AWD system.

 

Edit: After looking some specs up, it looks like the 2006 A4 Quattro is about 300lbs heavier than the 2006 GTI.

 

As BAC5.1 was also saying, try looking for a B7 V8 S4. The thing that hurts most with the S4 is the fuel economy though.

I only did a quick search and found a couple 0-60 threads so maybe they weren't good examples. Just last week I did about a 5.3 0-60 which was the first and probably only attempt I'll make. I think I can do a couple tenths better, but It's not worth beating up my car over. As much as I drive I don't think I want to go the V8 route with MPG that bad.

Isn't the STI's factory AWD setup essentially like the Quattro system used in the Audi V8? The STI (as far as I understand) uses three Torsen LSDs located front, center and rear, which as far as I know is exactly like Quattro system in the 1988-1994 Audi V8.

 

For clarity, we should get terminology correct. Torsen is a brand, not a technology or type of differential. I know what you MEAN, and that you know the difference, but many don't, and that should be made clear from the beginning. The generic term is Helical differential, and they all operate on the same basic principles. The VAG, as I understand it, has always used Torsen branded differentials, right?

 

As to the STi. It SORT of uses a helical center differential, but is augmented with electro-mechanical control via clutches. This really is the ultimate center differential approach. There reaction lag in the STi center diff comes from the clutches. I'll have to double check the drawings, but I believe the design intent was to allow the clutches to drag constantly, and that was how the static bias was defined. So when I mentioned not reacting as quickly as a standard helical differential, I meant just that. The clutches determine load transfer, and prevent the differential from responding mechanically. The downside is that lag. The plus-side is the ability to, more or less, force the transfer of torque in the direction you want. Quattro simply fights for equilibrium.

 

The STi has used many different rear differentials. Some were helical, some were clutch-type. I believe you are right, that the front diff was and is a helical type. The rear has changed over the years.

 

A helical front/rear diff'd STi is, basically, a modified Quattro drivetrain.

 

Starting with Quattro Version 4, which they started using in 1995, Audi switched to open front and rear differentials that are controlled by electronics (called "EDL" or electronic differential lock). I understand why Subaru's system still lacks when compared to this (Audi offers traction management in the front as well as the rear), but isn't it pretty darn close?

The knowledge I have about quattro is that you have three helical differentials. That's about it.

 

A DCCD'd helical diff'd Subaru is pretty darn close.

 

A 5MT with the VC center diff is far from close. In the VC, you are relying on shear rate to determine lockup, and that means that you HAVE to have some variation in rotational velocity to begin transferring load.

 

Our Subarus use a viscous center differential, so it will respond slower than Audi's Torsen differential, but we can still move power front to rear. The 5MT LGT uses a viscous LSD out back, so again there's a lag before power is transferred, but the LGT and STI use real differentials out back, not an "EDL" like Audi. The SpecB even uses a Torsen rear LSD. Where the Subaru system really lacks is at the front end (unless you're driving an STI). We have open differentials up front and obviously power will go to the wheel with least resistance.

The VC "moves power" like I mentioned above. Helical differentials do it mechanically and in infinitesimal increments.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just confused. How is it that Quattro with only one true LSD (center) is better than a vehicle with two or three LSDs? Wouldn't the Audi system and Subaru system be fairly close? The Audi can move power front to back quicker because of its Torsen center differential, and it also has an advantage up front because of the EDL it uses, but the Subaru system uses a true LSD out back to move power from side-to-side. Does the modern "EDL" beat using a true LSD?

Modern EDL can account for things like yaw, pitch, and roll that mechanical devices can't. That makes them have the potential to handle MUCH better, with MUCH better dynamic control over slip angle. It also makes it much easier to implement e-nannys so you don't have too much fun.

 

Are you saying that newer Quattro vehicles DON'T have Torsen differentials front and rear?

 

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, I'm just confused as to why Quattro is so much better than some of the Subaru systems.

 

I may well be mixing up the features of quattro vehicles. I thought, for sure, that the B7 V8 S4 had three Torsen diffs. Is that not right?

 

If not, then that certainly explains why the steering in the V8 S4 feels so good...

 

I would probably consider replacing my Outback with an S4 Avant if I could find a good one. My one hesitation is that I don't like to buy used cars (because I drive too much), and there are new cars I'd rather have than an S4. Still, it's right at the top of my list.

 

For a used car, I'd be hard pressed not to buy an S4, RS4, or E39 M5 depending on availability and funds. All three are fantastic bits of machine, and all three are absolutely thrilling to drive fast in ways that tingle the primal bits of your brain.

For clarity, we should get terminology correct. Torsen is a brand, not a technology or type of differential. I know what you MEAN, and that you know the difference, but many don't, and that should be made clear from the beginning. The generic term is Helical differential, and they all operate on the same basic principles. The VAG, as I understand it, has always used Torsen branded differentials, right?

 

As to the STi. It SORT of uses a helical center differential, but is augmented with electro-mechanical control via clutches. This really is the ultimate center differential approach. There reaction lag in the STi center diff comes from the clutches. I'll have to double check the drawings, but I believe the design intent was to allow the clutches to drag constantly, and that was how the static bias was defined. So when I mentioned not reacting as quickly as a standard helical differential, I meant just that. The clutches determine load transfer, and prevent the differential from responding mechanically. The downside is that lag. The plus-side is the ability to, more or less, force the transfer of torque in the direction you want. Quattro simply fights for equilibrium.

 

The STi has used many different rear differentials. Some were helical, some were clutch-type. I believe you are right, that the front diff was and is a helical type. The rear has changed over the years.

 

A helical front/rear diff'd STi is, basically, a modified Quattro drivetrain.

 

The knowledge I have about quattro is that you have three helical differentials. That's about it.

 

A DCCD'd helical diff'd Subaru is pretty darn close.

 

A 5MT with the VC center diff is far from close. In the VC, you are relying on shear rate to determine lockup, and that means that you HAVE to have some variation in rotational velocity to begin transferring load.

 

The VC "moves power" like I mentioned above. Helical differentials do it mechanically and in infinitesimal increments.

 

Modern EDL can account for things like yaw, pitch, and roll that mechanical devices can't. That makes them have the potential to handle MUCH better, with MUCH better dynamic control over slip angle. It also makes it much easier to implement e-nannys so you don't have too much fun.

 

Are you saying that newer Quattro vehicles DON'T have Torsen differentials front and rear?

 

I may well be mixing up the features of quattro vehicles. I thought, for sure, that the B7 V8 S4 had three Torsen diffs. Is that not right?

 

If not, then that certainly explains why the steering in the V8 S4 feels so good...

 

I would probably consider replacing my Outback with an S4 Avant if I could find a good one. My one hesitation is that I don't like to buy used cars (because I drive too much), and there are new cars I'd rather have than an S4. Still, it's right at the top of my list.

 

For a used car, I'd be hard pressed not to buy an S4, RS4, or E39 M5 depending on availability and funds. All three are fantastic bits of machine, and all three are absolutely thrilling to drive fast in ways that tingle the primal bits of your brain.

 

Thanks for the educational read. That helped clear things up even more for me. I'm starting to wish I had a bit more fun test driving that S4 now . I also envy the DCCD system even more now. That's the one thing I would have really liked to see carry into the SpecB.

 

I can't recall where I read it, but for some reason I thought Audi dropped the Torsen front and rear differentials. I just did some digging and the most complete information I can find comes from the Audi Wiki. I normally don't like to cite Wikis, but it's all that I can find right now, and I'd like to think the Audi guys have scoured the article for accuracy. Here's the explanation of Quattro Version 5: http://www.awdwiki.com/en/quattro/#quattro__V

 

It does look like Audi is using an open front differential and also used an open rear differential until they began using a torque vectoring "active sport rear differential" in the 2008 S4.

 

I found this part rather interesting and I've heard this issue raised before: "EDL is not a replacement for mechanical differential lock and it is not able to transfer enough torque to another wheel... When both front or both rear wheels are on ice, rollers, or raised in the air, the four wheel drive does not work."

 

I've used the term EDL pretty loosely. It's just a silly acronym invented by VW to describe their imitation differential. When I bought my GTI the salesman tried to make EDL sound like some godly aid for some reason. The EDL system uses open differentials and traction to control torque. To me this is not a suitable replacement to a mechanical LSD; I don't see it as having more potential because it simply relies on input from the traction and stability control readings to brake wheels and transfer torque. Again, I hate to cite a Wiki article, but it offers a simple explination that I like: "This EDL is not in fact a differential lock, but operates at each wheel. Sensors monitor wheel speeds, and if one is rotating more than 100 RPM more than the other (i.e. slipping) the EDL system momentarily brakes it. This effectively transfers all the power to the other wheel,[2] but still employs the open differential, which is the same as on cars without the EDL option." Our LGTs with VDC essentially use the same type of EDL system on our front axle that Audi is using on the front and back. The VDC in my Subaru will brake the spinning front wheel in an attempt to transfer power to the other wheel. It's not a true LSD, but it tries to mimic one by trying to control where power goes.

 

So here comes the hypothetical question. Say you have a 2007 S4 with open front and rear differentials that use the EDL (read: traction control) to move power and you turn the ESP (VW/Audi's traction/stability control system) off. If you floor it in the snow would the front and rear axles only be sending power to wheel with least resistance, making them do a "one wheel peel"? If that's the case, it doesn't sound like a great system to me. I'd rather have a mechanical differential that can move power without electronic aid, or I'd rather have an advanced torque-vectoring system like the new Audi Sport Differential or Acura's SH-System (if only it weren't based on a FWD platform).

Wrx?

No way, it will be a long time before I buy another Subie if ever again. The b7 A4 is on the top of my list now, but I still need to go and test drive one. If I really don't like it I'm going to keep my car until the 335xi gets into my price range or maybe take a break from fast cars and look into an SUV.

Ford Mustang? Either a 2005-2010 GT or any 2011 should have good performance. I'm sure there's an active modding community. Definitely not the same level of refinement as BMW/Audi/Infiniti but they possibly set the bar for performance per dollar. Especially the new 2011 V6... 300 HP and 60-0 stops in under 100 ft, for less than $25k.

I want to stick with at sedan though. I have a 2 year old and like the extra doors. I’m not really looking for a luxury car and I’d actually prefer to avoid one. After considering performance, reliability, and the other features I’m looking for the BMW and Audi just happened to be a good fit.