5MT vs 5EAT

So my search for a 5MT LGT wagon has resulted in a few finds but none that are close enough to me or make enough sense to go through with. So I am not opening up my search criteria to a 5EAT transmission with a wagon body still. My question to you guys is how does the 5EAT do reliability wise with any after market mods. How does the 5EAT respond to stage 1,2 or anything drivetrain mods? You guys think the paddle shifters are a gimmick or actually something that I would enjoy and use? Thanks for any opinions or help, really want an LGT wagon sitting in my driveway soon!

So my search for a 5MT LGT wagon has resulted in a few finds but none that are close enough to me or make enough sense to go through with. So I am not opening up my search criteria to a 5EAT transmission with a wagon body still. My question to you guys is how does the 5EAT do reliability wise with any after market mods. How does the 5EAT respond to stage 1,2 or anything drivetrain mods? You guys think the paddle shifters are a gimmick or actually something that I would enjoy and use? Thanks for any opinions or help, really want an LGT wagon sitting in my driveway soon!

 

I really like my 5EAT. I am currently at a Stage 1 tune plus a downpipe (and plenty of other mods). The reason I am staying at the Stage 1 tune is because the Stage 2 raises the boost and leads to two major problems:

1. Starts to cause the 5EAT to slip

2. Starts to separate the end tanks on the TMIC

 

There are a lot of members on here that have gone to Stage 2 and started having their tranmissions slip. You can try to prevent that with an upgraded valve body, but there are many members here that still end up having to rebuild their transmissions.

 

That being said, I would not take the 5EAT past 280-290bhp (30-40 more than stock). If you compare this to the 5MT, there are also a lot of guys breaking their transmissions, but probably closer to 330-350 bhp. Either way, the transmissions are a weak point. (6MT is the best overall!!)

 

I am very content with Stage 1.... yeah the 5EAT's have a lot of lag down low, but once they get into boost, its full boost until you let off of the gas. The steering wheel shift is a push button, not a paddle. Its a pretty cool concept, but I usually just leave the car in Sport mode and let it shift itself (unless I am autocrossing).

Paddles are a gimmick. Not a real sport shift. Tranny is made of glass. It is a crap shoot. I have owned two 5EATs and one SpecB. Guess which one I am keeping?

I'm used to driving a stick, but I like the 5EAT fine. The shift buttons on the steering wheel are okay for slightly spirited drive among the pleebs, but you'll never find them autocrossing. It's better to reach for the stick and hope you remember the shift pattern is up-up-up or down-down-down instead of up-down-up-down. Nothing like reaching for the stick to put it in first for a hairpin and realizing you put it in third instead.

 

I'm at stage 2 with mine and the only real issue is the typical shift lag. You say shift, you wait....

 

and then it shifts. The valve body mod is supposed to fix this. So far, a lower cost option to IPT hasn't been found. They also haven't found a front LSD option for the 5EAT.

 

Otherwise, you can do almost anything to this car that you can do to a 5MT or a sedan. There are a few less exhaust options, and sometimes you have to source a part for the Outback, but that's about it.

 

Also, you can get an 07 wagon with 5EAT but not 5MT (up to 08 in Canada).

I had a IPT VB. Tranny bushings, rear end lock down kit etc. Invested a couple G's in the tranny. Day I went stage3 with a BNREVO16g (on stock fueling) she gave up the ghost. Only 30k on the odometer. Babied her. It was the wifes daily driver for petes sake. IPT VB and all tranny mods done at 15k, the day I went stage2.

 

Tranny is glass. It is a crapshoot. I speak from 5 years of experience with the 5EAT and two different LGT's (2005, 5EAT and 2008, 5EAT).

2. Starts to separate the end tanks on the TMIC

Really? I've not seen any threads on this from a stg 2 car

I'm sure it can happen, but I don't think its common.

I had a IPT VB. Tranny bushings, rear end lock down kit etc. Invested a couple G's in the tranny. Day I went stage3 with a BNREVO16g (on stock fueling) she gave up the ghost. Only 30k on the odometer. Babied her. It was the wifes daily driver for petes sake. IPT VB and all tranny mods done at 15k, the day I went stage2.

 

Tranny is glass. It is a crapshoot. I speak from 5 years of experience with the 5EAT and two different LGT's (2005, 5EAT and 2008, 5EAT).

 

mine's not glass

i agree with the 'crap shoot' characterization though. my five years have seen them dump out/hold fast with anything from stock to big 3s without marking any clear trail of scientific consistency, other than the failure cases which carry the 'abuse' denominator.

I have a 5EAT w/all the bolt ons (soon to be FMIC) and an infamous tune. Been stage 2+ for almost a year. Ran on totally stock transmission for 5 months @ stage 2 and now just w/a TruCool 4452 cooler as my only transmissions upgrade. The car pulls hard and I have had 0 problems with the tranny, other than a rough 2-3 shift when tranny fluid is still warming up. But I've had that issue since stock.

If you enjoy driving a manual then get the manual, if not then buy the auto. They are both breakable above 300whp.

Everything is breakable.

Stage 1 stock, no problem.

Stage 2, start with a tranny cooler and possibly flush the ATF with either OEM or a good proven synthetic, like Amsoil. If you feel slips between gears, especially first 3, get a modded valve body (aka shift kit) from Import Performance Trans to the tune of about a grand after all is said and done and you will have a solid build for Stage 2. Throw in a tranny mount to keep things aligned and help it further.

The paddle shifters are not a gimmick. They do what they are supposed to do. The delay from the time you hit the button to the time the tranny shifts is dependent on throttle position, engine load, etc. Roll in traffic and it might take a second to execute the command. WOT and it will do it quicker.

The tranny is not made of glass, but the feedback you will get will be based on each user's experience. So far, trannies braking, number-wise, are in the minority to those that are problem free at Stage 1 and Stage 2.

The AWD drivetrain is also different, the AT is active, the MT is not. The MT you can get a front LSD, the AT, as of now, there is none available although work is on the way (no guarantee which way it will go). The AT will dyno less hp but more torque than the MT. The AT will shift under full boost at WOT. The MT will not, unless you do flat foot shifting everywhere, which is not healthy.

Your decision should be based solely on what kind of tranny you like. The investment for up to Stage 2 is more or less comparable on both the MT and AT, depending on your situation. Past Stage 2, the AT gets more expensive. A full race rebuild to hold 400whp or more is to the tune of 4-5 grand and there is nothing in between.

Dyno tuned stage 2 here, IPT valvue body, cooler and mount insert. No issues. 22k on the clock.

Wow thank you guys so much for the detailed opinions! Obviously everything breaks at one point or another but with the preventative mind and parts I think the chances can be reduced greatly.

Can you guys define what exactly stage 2 consists of? I know it usually includes a retune after a full exhaust is installed, what else is included?

I don't think I will take the car above a partial stage 2 so I will probably/hopefully avoid any of the problems listed above.

Stage 1: Panel filter (if desired) plus tune

Stage 2: Up pipe (if required to remove cat) and down pipe plus new tune. Can be catted or non-catted. Panel filter is still optional.

 

I'm not sure if a cat-back exhaust is optional or adds .5 to each stage.

Definition of stages

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/unofficial-legacy-gt-stage-upgrade-definitions-48123.html

Just keep in mind the stage definitions are a bit loose.

For example, I am on the stock exhaust but I have a TMIC. Technically, anything that stops at an upgraded turbo+injectors+fuel pump can very well mean Stage 2. I would avoid the 2.5 etc definitions by just stating mild or balls to the wall Stage 2 set-up

Again, great info on the 5EAT. Man, that valve body ain't cheap! Coming from the diesel truck world, everything seems backwards...<haha>

 

Does anyone have a bill of materials for the tranny cooler installation?

 

1. Where do you fit it?

2. What size did you get?

3. Does Subaru have a good way of getting the ATF out of the TC?

4. Any gains to be had running Redline, or any other synthetic ATF?

1. In front of the radiator. Position depends on the size

2. Fit whatever you like out of the TruCool, Hayden, etc line. I have a 5x11

3. No

4. Yes, better stability in hot/cold weather, better protection, longer life. If you want a good, proven aftermarket syn ATF, get Amsoil.

Trucool 4454 here. Front of a/c condenser (it is technically in front of the radiator you know), drivers side.

 

With fishbone on the rest. Basically being a smart arse. Hard to display sarcasm on interweb.

Its all been said already, but as a previous owner of a 5EAT SWP Wagon and the current owner of a BSM 5MT wagon, this being my first stick car... The stick is soo much more fun... although I do get more annoyed in traffic because people are dumb and make my life harder. I just installed the AVO STS and its even better.

 

I do miss the SWP color though, she was a beautiful car. But silver is still pretty damn good looking.

 

Its all personal preferance, but I made the same compromise on my first wagon, got the 5EAT cause there were no 5MTs around and looking back I wish I would have waited and just got an MT although I got lucky and the stars aligned after an unfortunate accident.

 

Both are nice and fun. The buttons work, but I tended to use the stick more, seemed to have a faster reaction time??? maybe just my mind??? The buttons did make for easy engine braking though, while driving the rental after my accident I kept reaching my thumbs for them but they werent there.

 

Stage 2 5MT wagon FTMFW....

 

Wagons are AWESOME!

^ wow, the genuine enthusiasm of that post really makes me see the side of the guys who pine nightly and parade daily for a spec b wagon. good for you, refreshing to see someone stoked.

swp is unarguably the primary color of sex.

If I could find a 5MT wagon to replace my 5EAT sedan (that just got rear ended) I would do it in a heart beat. I have always drooled over the wagons. Damn sexy if you ask me. 5MT turbo wagon, ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

^ wow, the genuine enthusiasm of that post really makes me see the side of the guys who pine nightly and parade daily for a spec b wagon. good for you, refreshing to see someone stoked.

swp is unarguably the primary color of sex.

 

You have no idea how excited and happy I was when I found out I was gonna be able to get back into another LGT, and a stick at that... Went by the dealer the night before I picked her up just to look at her...