auto or manual?

So I'm looking to replace my 1995 Mazda B2300 (aka ford ranger) that has 365k miles (not a typo). Previously I owned a turbo RX7 (FC - hence the forum handle) among other previous cars. I'm getting my second degree right now (electrical engineering ... and advance used of parenthesis) so I'm thinking a rotary project car probably isn't the best move right now. None the less I would certainly appreciate a 'fun' yet 'practical' car.

 

Considering a good friend of mine has a JDM swap bug eye wagon I've been able to appreciate Subarus for a while now.

 

Enough pre-face - here goes my question.

 

I've found nearly identical - 05 LGTs in my area. One's an auto and the other is a manual which 'needs a new clutch sooner or later'. Both around the same price and both with 145k ish on the clock. Not yet known if either is salted (I try to never buy salted cars)

 

I'm not afraid of doing the clutch myself BTW.

 

 

So ... how reliable are the autos? I'm thinking it might be a better option for DDing in Atlanta (traffic sucks at times).

 

But then again rebuilding an auto is a much bigger deal than replacing a clutch. My truck right now is a 5spd ... I'm no stranger to the third pedal.

 

Not to mention if over time I start having fun with power upgrades maybe I'll be better off with the 5spd. For that matter how strong is the auto when fed more power.

 

Incidentally the auto has an all black interior (preferred) and the manual has a two tone interior ... but honestly it hardly matters in the end.

 

I did some searching - found that autos should be getting fluid changes every 15k or flushes every 30k. I doubt the PO of the auto has been doing that but I can certainly ask. Same goes for diff fluid but that isnt so much an AUTO vs MANUAL topic ... that's more related to mileage.

 

Didn't find much else. In the words of Johnny 5 - INPUT! I NEED INPUT!

 

Lay it on me

unless you absolutely need an auto, the manual is the one to get. it will always be cheaper to deal with, and of course more fun. both trans' are reliable for the most part. so in the end, it will come down to your preference. FWIW doing a clutch on the 5mt is not hard, and most shops will do it for under $500 in labor.

145k isn't something I'd want a new owner to take on, unless they were prepared to do an engine rebuild almost immediately.

 

I'd keep looking, if I were you.

unless you absolutely need an auto, the manual is the one to get. it will always be cheaper to deal with, and of course more fun. both trans' are reliable for the most part. so in the end, it will come down to your preference. FWIW doing a clutch on the 5mt is not hard, and most shops will do it for under $500 in labor.

 

Spoke with my older brother (Shop foreman for a nice Lexus dealership) and he mirrored the same sentiment - which is "sure an auto is nice in traffic but no ... I wouldn't get the auto. Get a 5 speed and replace the clutch ... you've done harder"

 

Thanks for the input WhiteTiger. I'll be looking at the 5spd soon.

145k isn't something I'd want a new owner to take on, unless they were prepared to do an engine rebuild almost immediately.

 

I'd keep looking, if I were you.

 

 

I don't have the budget for something with less miles. That might be a good reason to switch to another car but one way or another the amount of money I'm spending means that I'll end up with something with higher mileage.

 

Anything to back up that LGT motors are near the end of their life at 145k?

^I would also listen to MrTris's advice as well on high mileage LGT's. really the trans choice is the least of your worries on a :GT with 145k miles. If its the original engine and turbo, better keep $6k aside for potential replacement.

^I would also listen to MrTris's advice as well on high mileage LGT's. really the trans choice is the least of your worries on a :GT with 145k miles. If its the original engine and turbo, better keep $6k aside for potential replacement.

 

interesting ... why?

Stock turbo's are know to fail, and when they do, metal from the CHRA gets in to the engine oil system, causing bearing failure. Its just a question of when.

Stock turbo's are know to fail, and when they do, metal from the CHRA gets in to the engine oil system, causing bearing failure. Its just a question of when.

 

can the stock turbo be rebuilt? is the long block questionable for any reason at this kind of mileage if the stock turbo is either rebuilt if possible or replaced?

Id never consider an auto for any turbo car, let alone a subaru. You just wont get the same experience. With that being said I say get the manual, and thank yourself later when you start modding . Plus manuals have the potential to get better gas milage

generally the turbo can be rebuilt by a reputable company, but it would be easier just to get a new one, or find a used one, unless you are going to upgrade somthing. There is no telling where the block is at considering the mileage, but if everything is still good, you can do some things to help prevent failure. There are thread on the subject all over the forum, which i suggest you search them out.

Id never consider an auto for any turbo car, let alone a subaru. You just wont get the same experience. With that being said I say get the manual, and thank yourself later when you start modding . Plus manuals have the potential to get better gas milage

 

yea I've tossed the whim of an idea that was an auto.

Auto vs Manual is an age-old debate here. As a 5EAT owner, I can say that I really appreciate the extra torque and convenience in stop-and-go traffic, which was why I got it in the first place. The 5EAT can handle more power than the 5MTs with less chance of breakage past Stage 2. There are at least two 500hp 5EATs here, but no 5MTs with more than about 350.

 

At 145k, that motor has been running on the stock tune, which isn't all that great, the entire time. At high rpms on-boost, this causes knock, which leads to what we call ringland failure, or, put simply, breakage of the piston in the area where the rings sit, due to excessive knock. And, if that doesn't kill the motor, the cat breaking loose in the UP will. It runs rich at low rpms and off-boost, which causes the cat material in the UP to break up and dislodge, getting sucked into the turbo, where it seizes and either snaps the shaft, or, most often, makes contact with the journal bearing, which shreds it and sends metal flakes down the oil return drain, through the heads (potentially scoring the cams and/or journals) and into the rest of the motor, where it will eventually lodge itself in a rod bearing oil port, and starve that bearing of oil, killing the shortblock. This is where I've coined, #ynansb, which means You Need A New Shortblock.

 

Autos and Manuals alike suffer this fate nearly 100%.

 

And at 145k, it's either been through one or two turbos, and maybe even a new shortblock, or worse, one they've pulled from a JY because warranty replacement.

 

If it's the original motor, but it's been through at least one turbo already, it's practically dead. I wouldn't trust the longevity of that motor any further than I could throw it.

 

When these cars run and they're taken care of properly, they're great cars -- they really are!-- otherwise, we wouldn't all be here.

 

But again, at 145k, and all stock, you're just asking for trouble if you buy it for anything more than about 4500.

^listen to this guy

But again, at 145k, and all stock, you're just asking for trouble if you buy it for anything more than about 4500.

 

Listed for 5000. Plan on sticking with 4000. Any methods to checking the health of the motor? I've got a compression tester and borescope. Turbo Shaft play?

 

I can certianly replace an UP and rebuild the turbo if needed.

The only exception would be if you buy a documented car from an enthusiast. I certainly wouldn't buy one from a dealer. You really need to buy the car from the previous owner and get the whole story.

Listed for 5000. Plan on sticking with 4000. Any methods to checking the health of the motor? I've got a compression tester and borescope. Turbo Shaft play?

 

I can certianly replace an UP and rebuild the turbo if needed.

 

I'm not sure if you're a skilled machinist, but, these IHI turbos are not like the Zenkis that come stock on the Turbo2s. (I've worked on one, believe it or not! Would never do that again!) The journal bearings are garbage. You'd be best off to replace it with something else, like a Mitsu TD-series (04, 05, 06) and get a protune, which, you'll eventually need anyway. Proceed at your own risk.

 

Replacing an UP is fairly easy, too. If you can competently wrench on your own FC3S, these cars will be a breeze for you, and a lot more fun. Gas mileage is OK, comparatively.

 

ANY shaft play in the turbo is no good. Doing a compression test yourself isn't a bad idea, but, I've yet to hear of a dealership or private seller that's willing to let you take a couple hours to rip it apart, perform a comp and leakdown, and trust that you'll put it all back together the right way, at least not without making you actually buy it, first.

 

Honestly at 145k, I'd be impressed if the numbers came back good. But again, it's such high mileage, there's just almost no reason to take it on unless they're willing to come down in price, as, it's almost guaranteed to need a new motor in the next year or so.

Ya it's def s shot in the dark but if ur good with cars a new sb is around the 1900$ range plus random odds and ends like gaskets and timing belt figure 2500$ if u do the work. But on s side note one of my friends has an lgt wagon with 195k with stock block and turbo and he drives it hard still no issues so it's a tough call

But on s side note one of my friends has an lgt wagon with 195k with stock block and turbo and he drives it hard still no issues so it's a tough call

 

and this (and other claims of running just find at the mileage I'm looking at and above) is why I take "if it's got 145k it's as good as dead" comments with a grain of salt.

 

Only the people that it happens to complain, jump on forums, or get told as stories. So hearing a lot about it just means you hear a lot about it ... not that it's indicative of the ENTIRE FLEET of 05 LGTs.

 

Now that doesn't mean I'm ignoring what I'm being told. If I buy one of these I'm certainly going to replace the UP, get a proper tune to alleviate rich low end and lean top end, and (as a local LGT owner I just met instructed) do the 'turbo oiling mod'.

 

So as far as inspection. What are some of the easier things on LGTs to get to. Obviously a compression test is harder on a boxer so it seems that wont be happening. I can inspect some things that are harder to reach with my borescope. How hard is the TID to get off so I can check any play in the turbo?

 

I'll have my brother toss it in the air, check the ecu, and if I'm crazy I can even get blackstone to do an oil test.

So, you're gonna do all that yo make a decision, but intentionally pass up the only thing that will give you there most information about the overall condition of the motor because it's too hard to reach?

 

Grab the rock salt, and leave grains behind you along the way to the handbasket. Just don't forget that I tried to steer you in the right direction.

Get the manual. I went eight years with a Cherokee 5spd, then to an Avalon. Better car in all possible ways, made me insane with no stick.

 

Just cause tris says the car will blow doesn't mean it will. Just don't say he didn't warn you. I'm at 192k and I know it's coming. Still a great car.

So, you're gonna do all that yo make a decision, but intentionally pass up the only thing that will give you there most information about the overall condition of the motor because it's too hard to reach?

 

Grab the rock salt, and leave grains behind you along the way to the handbasket. Just don't forget that I tried to steer you in the right direction.

 

I've yet to hear of a dealership or private seller that's willing to let you take a couple hours to rip it apart, perform a comp and leakdown, and trust that you'll put it all back together the right way, at least not without making you actually buy it, first.

Rebuilding the turbo isn't an issue and we have a member here (JmP) who can do magic to the stock VF40 like billet wheel and other things. The issue is clogged banjo bolt filters and how many turbos did they take out.

FCguy the 05 is literally the 1st year production model. As for grains of salt, I was in need for a new short block @ 80k when I didn't take the turbo blowing up @ 60K seriously as I should have.

Listed for 5000. Plan on sticking with 4000. Any methods to checking the health of the motor? I've got a compression tester and borescope. Turbo Shaft play?

 

I can certianly replace an UP and rebuild the turbo if needed.

 

bingo!

 

First mod should be get getting catless uppipe, aftermarket or sti.

 

I have to say, there are few ppl on the forum running on stock engine at 200k!

 

but has replaced about 3 turbos?

 

Hard to believe, but there is hope!