Summer/Winter vs. AS Tire Performance

OK - I'm thinking about dumping the RE-92s for Eagle F1 GS-D3s and getting Blizzaks for the winter.

I know Summer Only tires will outperform AS tires so it'll be fun in the summer...but...

How much better will AS tires perform over Blizzaks in the winter when there is NO snow? I know I'll be wondering what performance capabilities I've given up in dry conditions in the winter if I go with dedicated summer/winter tires.

Thanks..

It depends on which Blizzaks you get. Some are designed for maximum snow grip while others give up some snow grip for better clear road handling. On my WRX I ran F1 GS-D3s in the summer and Nokian WRs in the winter. The WRs are what Nokian calls an "all-weather" tire and they fit somewhere between an all-season and a true winter tire. I found the WRs to be better than RE-92s in all regards but there are some all-season tires that will give better grip wet/dry grip than the WRs but at the cost of snow traction.

Your decision should be influenced by what kind of weather you see in the winter, how often you're driving in the snow, and how deep that snow is. I know plenty of people in this area that run Summer tires and then use good all-seasons in the winter and have no problems getting around in the snow, even when they make trips to the mountains and see a good amount of snow.

Thanks, driggity - that's an option I did not consider - Summer only tires in the summer and good AS in the winter (Pirelli or Toyos) - In that case, I'd probably be looking for AS tires that rated highest in snow performance.

We see a good bit of snow up here in NW PA - and being on Lake Erie we get a good bit of lake effect stuff.

emlevins - FWIW if I were you I would get dedicated winter tires (especially in your neck of the woods). If you are going to have two sets anyway, you won't give up *that* much dry weather performance if you get a higher speed rated winter tire. I've had both Blizzak LM22s and Dunlop M2s and both were remarkably good on the highway and noticeably better than allseasons in the snow.

EDIT: the speed rating is likely one difference betw the different types outahere references.

yeah but you don't get to go drifting in the snow either!

Sand/Mud works.

colder air = free hp.

silly texan.

colder air = free hp.

 

silly texan.

No worries, I have dry ice to place on my intercooler..

I've had the opportunity to drive a few winter tires, including the Michelin Pilot Alpin, Arctic Alpin, Nokian WR and RSi, WS and LM Blizzak, as well as RE92s.

Last on that list in the snow would be the RE92. When there isn't snow, snow tires gain an added degree of complexity. The LM Blizzaks are very good when there isn't snow, bettered by the Pilot Alpin and the Nokian WR. Really, it depends upon how much snow you get when you get it. I ran the Nokian RSi last year, and fell in love. Those tires have learned a lot from the WR, so they aren't as squirmy as WS Blizzaks, or the old serious snow Nokian Hakkas. Very nice tire.

A friend ran WRs on his WRX last year and hated them. He found them to be slippy in the snow, and liked his Pilot Alpins better when there wasn't any snow. I'd have to agree with him on that one.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

I've been pretty happy with Michelin X-Ice. Not as grippy on ice as the WS-50s, but far quieter and grippier on dry, not mushy feeling at all, and very good in the rain. They look like they will last longer too.

Keep in mind also that on the WS-50, only the first half of the thread is made of the special "ice" compound. After that, you are back to a regular snow tire thread.

I've been pretty happy with Michelin X-Ice. Not as grippy on ice as the WS-50s, but far quieter and grippier on dry, not mushy feeling at all, and very good in the rain. They look like they will last longer too.

 

Keep in mind also that on the WS-50, only the first half of the thread is made of the special "ice" compound. After that, you are back to a regular snow tire thread.

Actually, it's even worse. It's an all-season tread after the magic multicell stuff wears away.

Kevin

..........How much better will AS tires perform over Blizzaks in the winter when there is NO snow? I know I'll be wondering what performance capabilities I've given up in dry conditions in the winter if I go with dedicated summer/winter tires.

 

Thanks..

A very good question, and no one has yet given a definitive answer, probably because there is no test data out there. I have never seen any test results from, for instance, a comparison of dry and wet braking distances (no snow, no ice) for an AS tire vs a winter tire. If the winter tire requires an extra 25 ft to stop from 60mph on dry, cold pavement, then that needs to be factored into the purchase decision, especially if you live where there are only a few snowstorms per winter. It's hard to make a risk assessment regarding All-season tires vs Winter tires in the absence of objective data.

Look, you HAVE to state what your preferences are in a winter tire. There are winter tires, and there are snow tires, believe it or not. So, what do you want from the following list:

dry performance

wet performance

snow performance

ice performance

There are really good winter tires that perform VERY well in the cold/ dry (better by far than RE92), but they will be close to suck when in snow and ice. The LM-22 was a good example of this kind of tire. The blizzak WS-50 is the opposite. Loosie-goosie in the cold/dry but the best thing short of studded tires in the snow and particularly the ice. It's all about tread compound for ice, and mostly about tread pattern for snow and water, and dry - because the siping makes your tread blocks squirmy. Squirmy rubber that's compliant in the cold and sticky to ice makes it much worse.

So, what are your criteria. You can't have good treadwear for the summer, so don't ask for that

............There are really good winter tires that perform VERY well in the cold/ dry (better by far than RE92), .............

Do you have a link to test data (where the RE92 has been tested against winter tires) to support this statement, or is this a subjective assessment?

Do you have a link to test data (where the RE92 has been tested against winter tires) to support this statement, or is this a subjective assessment?

Don't have a link, sorry. BUT, check out the tirerack and I bet you will be able to find such a comparison, or somehting close. they run almost all of their testing against the eagle RSA on a 3 series or IS 300, so that tire serves as a baseline or standard. That's an a/s tire, and I'll bet you can find a test comparing the RSA to the RE-92, and from there you can make your comparison with your snow tire - they test those against the rsa, also.

I HAVE run the RE92 in 3 detroit winters, the arctic alpin and MZ-01 in 4 upstate NY winters, the SP4000 in det, and a number of other tires I've had seat time on but didn't own. RE92's are going to be reasonably safe, but will be close to suck under any conditions if you aren't careful with them. Especially during that 3rd winter. They start to get dangerous in winter after say 15k mi at most.

G/L

If you are not going to see a lot of snow (say more than 2" on the ground), then I wouldn't bother getting snow tires like blizzaks unless you dont trust yourself with A/S tires.

I live in MD where we are at the edge of getting at least one to two weeks worth of snow out of the 52 weeks in a year.. I'll take my chances with the A/S since I can do more with them during the year.

Keefe

Thanks, driggity - that's an option I did not consider - Summer only tires in the summer and good AS in the winter (Pirelli or Toyos) - In that case, I'd probably be looking for AS tires that rated highest in snow performance.

 

Yep, that is what I am looking for in a AS ire for my Mom's '03 GT sedan in a 205/55R16. But I don't need teh perfomance astualy isf they rode better and were quieter she would like them better.

If you are not going to see a lot of snow (say more than 2" on the ground), then I wouldn't bother getting snow tires like blizzaks unless you dont trust yourself with A/S tires.

 

I live in MD where we are at the edge of getting at least one to two weeks worth of snow out of the 52 weeks in a year.. I'll take my chances with the A/S since I can do more with them during the year.

 

 

Keefe

Quite right, but the original post is in Erie, PA. He's going to need snows:D

Thanks, driggity - that's an option I did not consider - Summer only tires in the summer and good AS in the winter (Pirelli or Toyos) - In that case, I'd probably be looking for AS tires that rated highest in snow performance.

 

Yep, that is what I am looking for in a AS ire for my Mom's '03 GT sedan in a 205/55R16. But I don't need teh perfomance astualy isf they rode better and were quieter she would like them better.

 

If you're going to run a second set of tires anyway, I wouldn't do this. Why not get a high performance winter (not snow) tire, like the LM-25? These tires are close to all seasons in tread compound, but are designed for winter weather. The LM-25 is designed for good cold but dry weather and is weaker on snow/ice than a snow tire, but it should be better than most if not almost all A/S tires for winter use.

 

Again, the tirerack is a great source of information - look at their tire testing.