2Simpletons Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hey all, This is on the 2005 LGT. We just got the car back from the alinment shop and I didn't have time to look at the specs in the store 'cause I was tryin to get somewhere and they were closing up. Anyway, They didn't even friggin' bother changing the camber on the front wheels at all, just toe (which was the BIG problem.) So here's the before and after specs...what is the difference in camber going to do or not do? Should I take the car back and have them at least match the two? Is .8 difference in - camber pretty far off? Also should I have them dial in about -.1 on the FL and FR? Thanks. BEFORE AFTER FL CAMBER -.8 -.8 FR CAMBER .0 .0 FL TOE -.04 -.02 FR TOE -.20 -.01 RL CAMBER -.3 -.4 RR CAMBER .1 .1 RL TOE -.07 -.08 RR TOE -.01 -.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 about a degree of camber... yeah thats pretty far off but not dangerous nor will you notice a diffrence in tire wear. You cant adjust rear camber. Its not adjustable. They probably wont know how to adjust the front camber. Most shops think a full wheel alignment involves toe only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilh Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 According to the "vacation" materials: the front camber is supposed to be -0º15', with a L/R maximum difference of 45' (0.75º). Your front camber difference is 0.8º, out of spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Is this on stock suspension? The camber is low on the rear, for a lowered car, which is why I ask... Yeah, almost 1 degree spread isn't an alignment you should be paying for. Toe is generally to blame for uneven tire wear. But they should have adjusted to within factory tolerances, which they did not! At least not on the fronts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Looks like they didnt adjust anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 my opinion: BEFORE = SUCK AFTER = STILL SUCK Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Simpletons Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 This was done at a friggin' brake shop - I think that's the issue. There are actually a couple of "real" alignment shops here that I know of, but they're M-F and we were already gettin' brake worked on so I kinda just "threw it on." My mistake. Just fixing the toe made a big difference, but the rest is BS. Thanks for the input. I agree that this shop will probably not go through the effort of adjusting the camber correctly, even when it says it's not in spec. according to there own standard listed specs. Dang I wish there was an easy way to do this on my own. I've heard of some folks actually figuring out how to perform a very good alignment on the concrete of their own garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 yeah just get a baseline and adjust the camber bolt yourself. Its marked with increments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Dang I wish there was an easy way to do this on my own. I've heard of some folks actually figuring out how to perform a very good alignment on the concrete of their own garage. There is I do it all the time for friends/customers/personal race cars, etc. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Simpletons Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 yeah just get a baseline and adjust the camber bolt yourself. Its marked with increments. So what does each tick mark on the bolt represent? 1 degree? 2 degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 According to the vacation pix. It moves it about 15 "minutes" Which is about a 1/4 a degree for each tick mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 looks like all they did was adjust your front toe and send it out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Yeah go back and kick them square in the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebpda9 Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 go and ask them for your money back, then burn the shop down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsleeper Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 If u change camber (ur self or a shop) U HAVE TO REST TOE!!!!!!!!!! camber will change the toe specs u st in this order caster,camber,toe caster/camber on some cars are adjusted together some cars camber & toe are adjusted together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derffred Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 yeah just get a baseline and adjust the camber bolt yourself. Its marked with increments. isn't there only three possible adjustments though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 set camber first, then toe. it aint that hard. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robust Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 how about if someone can help us uneducated get started on doing this ourselves? i just installed coilovers and want to get it aligned but am all for doing it myself if possible, just dont know how. what do you say, xenonk? (hah, rhymes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derffred Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 you need an alignment rack.. so it can show your actual values and be able to adjust accordingly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 you need an alignment rack.. so it can show your actual values and be able to adjust accordingly... no you dont I would post up how to do it, but it would a be a repeat of a lot of old-school ways that you can find on racer and race team techniques website info. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derffred Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i'm sure other ways are possible, but for someone who doesn't know how to do an alignment in the first place, would have an almost impossible time aligning everything without seeing the actual values in front of their face lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 String up a square around the car and take measurements from the wheel to the string. You will need a camber gauge to do camber. This is one way to do it, though I would do this for a race car, I personally prefer more precision for my street car than this setup can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windex Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Having performed a few alignments, I can say that you will never get your toe accurately set in a garage, unless you have a baseline alignment to start from. If, you know the specs from your car to start, a carpenters square can help immensely. take 2simple's spec below: you know that the front camber is is out of spec (cross camber), but the right side is right at 0deg, whereas the left is at .8 get your car on a nice flat concrete surface, and measure the difference in camber in the same way. place the carpenter's square on the floor, and slide it up to the wheel/tire. measure the gap between the square and the tire at the top, and then do the same on the opposite side. Given that the camber is .8 degrees different, you will have a larger gap at the top of the left side. BEFORE AFTER FL CAMBER -.8 -.8 FR CAMBER .0 .0 FL TOE -.04 -.02 FR TOE -.20 -.01 RL CAMBER -.3 -.4 RR CAMBER .1 .1 RL TOE -.07 -.08 RR TOE -.01 -.00 you can then loosen the strut-to-knuckle bolts and adjust until the gap is the same as the right, by turning the top camber bolt until the wheel-to-square gap is the same on both sides of the car. Then, re-tighten both bolts. this step can be tricky, as the settings will want to change when you re-tighten the bolts. the trick is to loosen the bolts only enough to move the strut with force. If they are too loose, it will be difficult to keep your new setting when re-tightening the bolts. HOWEVER... If you do this, you also change you toe settings on the same wheel, which will then also need to be adjusted. Again, going by the 2simple's readings, when the left side campber is adjusted, you will also toe in that wheel slightly. which shoud result in the steerin wheel being off to the left). The best way to get this back is to drive the car down a straight level road, and note where the steering wheel is in relation to before you adjusted the camber. (hopefully the alignment shop at least got that straight!) Here's the tricky part. You then need to adjust only (in this example) left side toe to bring the steering wheel back to center. You will do this by SHORTENING the outer tie rod length, or toeing the wheel out slightly. If you did it right, the steering wheel will be centered again. My rule of thumb is about 1/2 turn on the inner tie rod for every 10 degrees off on the steering wheel. It is important that you only adjust one side at a time. if you adjust both, you will change the total toe (from side to side) and you will lose your baseline. If you only adjust one side, once the steering wheel is back to center (again, assuming it was centered in the first place), your total toe will be restored. If you are in any way uncomfortable with the above, don't do it. go to a decent alignment shop and have them do it (not the shop 2simple went to) ask for before and after specs, and ask beforehand what adjustments are included. Cheers. Oh. BTW - anything's adjustable, you just have to hit it hard enough. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i'm sure other ways are possible, but for someone who doesn't know how to do an alignment in the first place, would have an almost impossible time aligning everything without seeing the actual values in front of their face lol.. the string method is still used today for race cars (which are just as practically accurate as you need to be).. not all race teams can carry a hunter rack with them to the track, so the string method is still used today. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 String up a square around the car and take measurements from the wheel to the string. You will need a camber gauge to do camber. This is one way to do it, though I would do this for a race car, I personally prefer more precision for my street car than this setup can provide. ^ why? if it's good enough for the track, it should be good enough for the street. I am sure you need even more precision on the track doing well over 100 mph to make sure the car is straight than on the highway Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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