Shopping Spec.b's, questions

Okay, looking at a new car, need 4 door, awd. Want speed. Shopping the usual suspects: 08 Subie spec.b, Audi a42.0t quattro, Infiniti g35x, 08 Merc C300 Sport 4 Matic, volvo s40 t5awd, saab 9-3aero xwd (to be released). Most of them are dogs, so its probably down to the audi and scoobie. Both seem to have good after market support, tuners, and good forums. The audi needs more work to go quick from showroom floor, but might otherwise be a nicer whip, until warranty ruins out, and son on and on.

Anyway, to the scoobie questions, and I've been trying to sit through the forums, but its a bit difficult as an outsider looking for stuff you don't know too much about in the first instance. So, first up, do I read right that I can't chip this thing if I get an 08 spec.b? Looks like the 05-06my lgt was the "golden years"? The spec.b is already increased in hp from the lgt, so no more room to chip?

next, is it also accurate that the stereo cannot be upgraded? Its on the same circuit board as the hvac controls, so short of cutting the circuit board and making jumpers, thats it? Well, maybe could add sub by using the speaker wiring, but not a proper line-out in any event? And, the factory sub is not available for 08?

There is no bluetooth? I keep reading about parrot kits and splicing into lines, lines there, especially if a sub is present, let alone the work that goes into steering wheel controls, but really no bluetooth? in 2008? on a car that has nav and medica control center? huh?

The 6mt is not the sti tranny, but definately better (or stronger) than the 5mt if I do have engine or exhaust mods?

Yes, the 08 spec.b wheels are that ugly, and no I can't get credit for them at the dealer to use towards a different wheel?

thanks,

-777

It all adds up to 21! Nah, just used an old website handle when my first umpteen choices here were preempted. Always noticed it was either 21 or 777, depending how you looked at it.

-21

As for the chip question, I think it just takes time for the manufacturers to get a chip set out. '06 and earlier are out now, '07 is coming out - '08 is going to take awhile. Be patient, or get an older car and Mod it up!

Talking about the Spec B as being "powered up" from a regular LGT will start a firestorm! The power train is identical, as far as power output so far as I know. The Spec B does indeed have some weight saving aluminum components, an upgraded suspension/rims/tires, and yes, the 6MT is taken from the STI. It is heavy duty, close ratio, and very smooth!!!

Alcantara covered power seats with memory, satellite Navigation, dual climate controls are standard, along with the leather MoMo wheel and shifter. I know lots of people who upgrade the stereo with boosters, better speakers, etc. As to replacing the whole unit, that's not my bag, so someone else may help you there. Dunno about bluetooth, either, but you do have an MP3/ipod plugin that can allow you to play it through your stereo, it that helps you out.

As for wheels, your dealer may or may not be cooperative. That's a crapshoot... having said that, you may be able to negotiate that if you shop more than one dealer. As for color choice, Subie isn't big on that. Ya' love it or you don't. I love the '07 Diamond Grey Metallic - so it's in the bag for me. I couldn't stick the brick-red interior of the '06 at any price, though. Personal preference.

I absolutely LOVE mine. It is elegant, powerful, modable, and very stealthy. True 50/50 AWD and the new Vehicle Dynamic Control systems are terrific without be interfering. The car handles like nothing else on corners and twisties, and you will walk away from 95% of the cars out there right out of the box. Not to mention 5* crash rating, a great bargain for what you get, and very easy on the insurance bill - not a cop magnet, either. All good news for your wallet.

Can you get a more buff auto - of course, as long as money isn't an option. But since you are bothering to shop and post here, I assume that (like most of us) your money doesn't grow on trees. The Legacy isn't called "The King of Cars" for nuthin! Pull the trigger on yours and you'll never go back!

Thanks for the repy and info.

Yeah, looking at the Spec.B for obviously the great value and the great name. I always wanted the WRX, but that passed my by due to a job (had to drive american) and now I'm a bit too old for a Rex. I do want to upgrade my image and the scoobie is a bit short there (no flames please), but on the other hand I can't ignore the performance. The other cars are a bit piggy in weight and/or are autos. The closest is the a4, but would require more mods to get right. And now I've got a family, so not too sure about weekends in the driveway!

Okay, so just about what I expected: good heritage, good bits on the car, little short on creature features, but nothing that's a deal breaker. And best yet, really good support (this forum and general scoobie forums) and lots of aftermarket suppliers. I was looking into the Merc, and she's short on power in the 4matic version, so I posted as to what mods might be available (the engine was a carryover from previous gens, so not new nor different in the drivetrain). Anyway, it was tumbleweed city on that question in the three Merc forums I went to!

Thanks, look to test drive this weekend if I'm lucky.

-777

Absolutely love mine and did shop the same cars as you're considering.

Incredible value for the money and lots of room to mod.

Good luck and happy hunting.

I'm a bit too old for a Rex. I do want to upgrade my image and the scoobie is a bit short there (no flames please), but on the other hand I can't ignore the performance.

-777

Why would we flame you? We don't act like WRX kiddies that thinks the WRX is the only car that Subaru makes.. it kills them to know the outback and the Legacy are Subaru's bread and butter cars.

Sounds like you'll be needing this article:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=3280&page_number=1

Yeah, it's the '07 comparison, but it'll serve you very well.

Good luck with your search.

~B

If you have a family to support it might be better to buy something good right out of the box.

Trust me, family means a lot of expected and unexpected expenses.

Krzys

Why would we flame you? We don't act like WRX kiddies that thinks the WRX is the only car that Subaru makes.. it kills them to know the outback and the Legacy are Subaru's bread and butter cars.

Yeah, SOA seems to think that the WRX is the only car they make or is deserving of attention

^ I believe that minus the STi's Driver Controlled Center Differential (DCCD) the two transmissions are virtually the same. The 5th and 6th gear ratios are a little bit different as can be seen below.

BTW, I got this data off of the www.cars101.com website which is pretty much the ultimate Subie specification source. Besides this site of course .

I used the 07 STI as the comparison since only God (so far) knows what the 08 STI will bring to the table in its US form.

07 STI:

6 speed manual

1st: 3.636

2nd: 2.235

3rd: 1.521

4th:1.137

5th:0.971

6th: 0.756

final 3.9

08 spec.B

6 spd manual

1st 3.636

2nd 2.235

3rd 1.521

4th 1.137

5th 0.891

6th 0.707

final 3.900

Oh yeah, the pattern on the shift knob behind the shift pattern is a little different between the two cars. Hey, I wanted you to have ALL the details!

I absolutely LOVE mine. It is elegant, powerful, modable, and very stealthy. True 50/50 AWD and the new Vehicle Dynamic Control systems are terrific without be interfering.

Fiz, Just curious, did your 07 Spec.B really come with VDC? Cars101 doesn't list it as one of the options for that year. I thought it was only added to the 08 Spec.Bs?

I'm looking at 07s and 08s so I was just wondering about it as an additional point of comparison between the model years.

Thanks!

Yup, VDC was a Spec B special option in '07, and I'm very glad I have it. Let a friend who was interested in a Subaru test drive my car (he wasn't good with MT... or a turbo... or an intercooled turbo!). He would have wiped us both out, or at least totaled the car. VDC kicked in and pulled it back under control. He was "Like wow! Your car drives itself!" Then I let him ride back home in the trunk.

Last time I've ever let anyone drive my car.

narrow it down to SPEC B, G35/37 and 335i/ix. The rest are slow and or too expensive to mod and or questionable reliability.

If u want to absolutely look good, get the G or 335 but if you want to

-go fast,

-be somewhat unique

-dont mind spending the savings (cost difference) in mods (at least $1500 to get to stage 2 which I feel is enough for starters)

-baffle you passengers with stealthy scary speed

...get the Spec B!

I hear you on the spec.b vs. g35 v. 335ix, but here's the kicker: I have a toddler daughter and one on the way, plus own a house built in the 1920's with a one car attached garage, which means it once fit a Model T or Model A great, but not so much anything else!

You wondering WTF. Well, that means the g37 and other 2 doors won't work. The garage reference was to let you know that my 2002 ford focus zx5 (don;t laugh, for my last job I just got rid of I had to drive american, and it was the only decent car that fit the garage, plus, with a chip, intake, street header, hi-flo cat, and full cat back exhaust, it'll clean some clocks - especially with the manual and weighing in at only approx 2650#). Anyway, the focus barely fits the garage. All passengers have to get out before I enter the garage, I slide the car in flush on the right hand side, and can still only open the driver's door 2/3's way. Now, the focus is 67" wide in the body and 78" wide mirror-to-mirror. The mirror measurement is used to get in the threshold of the garage, once in, the body measurement becomes important since that determines how much the door will open. I short, if the bmw 335ix fit, I'd a been done. But the new bimmers are portly, coming in at almost 72" in the body alone (that's small suv, or mid size sedan specs there). The lgt is 68 body/79 mirrors, the audi is 69/76. the new merc is 69/78. the infiniti is 68/79. Hell, what I really want is the a6 or e class or 5 series, just no room. oh well.

And no, I'm not spending 10K to expand the garage nor am I going the white trash route and parking it on the lawn. The wife has the one car wide driveway with her car, no luck there. And I have nazi neighbors who actually petitioned that our neighborhood have no overnight parking. there was once a referendum to remove that restriction, and the neighbors fought it. I asked why during one neighborhood bbq. they said it would promot crime. I asked how. They said it people would case the houses and park stolen cars there. I retorted that thieves rarely case houses in the middle of the night when people are home and lights out, and that car thieves rarely worry about getting parking tickets. They looked at me like I was some sort of communist. :spin:I gave up.

- 777

Ah yes, I forgot the VDC on the sB.. The STi doesn't have it, but I don't think comparing VDC to the DCCD on the STi (I) is really a selling point. On the streets driving like a normal human, perhaps there's no noticeable difference (I'll find out in a few weeks I'm sure, with winter coming) but in a snow covered parking lot DCCD will undoubtedly rule.

That said, only you can make the decision on whether to grow up completely or not. Here's the trick I discovered, pick one of them and find a mate that will drive the other as their main ride. Presto! If you're driving or riding in your family's car, you're smiling!

By the way, it sounds like your draconian neighbors deserve to look at a WRB STI with gold wheels parked on the street in front of your house! That'd learn 'em. Seriously though, if the Legacy fits in your garage, you won't be sorry if you get it. Law of averages and all.

I hear you on the spec.b vs. g35 v. 335ix, but here's the kicker: I have a toddler daughter and one on the way, plus own a house built in the 1920's with a one car attached garage, which means it once fit a Model T or Model A great, but not so much anything else!

 

- 777

In that case, the LGT is the clear winner. Definitely the safest car in the group you are considering, especially for rear passengers. That certainly made it an easier decision for me.

 

Talking about the Spec B as being "powered up" from a regular LGT will start a firestorm! The power train is identical, as far as power output so far as I know. The Spec B does indeed have some weight saving aluminum components, an upgraded suspension/rims/tires, and yes, the 6MT is taken from the STI. It is heavy duty, close ratio, and very smooth!!!

The OEM Spec.B all seem to have Stage 1 power right out of the box according to the dynos on this site. The aluminum suspension compontents coupled with Bilsteins is world class GT. There was that 06MY comparison between the Spec. and 5 other comparable AWD cars. The Spec.B was the fastest and only finished second to the A4 based on some subjective categories. In their conclsuon, the article said that if price was one of the test criteria that the Spec. would be the clear winner.

Love the 06 brick red.

I'm very fimiliar with both the A4 2.0T and the sB so here is my take.

IF you can stand it, the A4 has a nicer interior, more refined ride, and good over all handling from the factory. For $800 (iirc) you can buy the maintanance package which covers all of your basic oil change stuff for 4 years or 50k miles. It's not terribly slow stock, but not a real mover either. The interior is a lot better then the sB or LGT though. MTM, Revo, APR, Stassus, and a few other already have pretty much anything you would want for aftermarket support.

For the money you get more "stuff" on the sB. You get nav, memory seats, 18" wheels, and more hp just to name a few. Interior and exterior fit and finish isn't as nice as the A4 too. Cobb is supposed to have an AccessPort 2 out for the 07/08 LGTs and sB's before xmas (this is only a tenative date), and most other basic mods are the same as the 05-07 LGT's.

I hear you on the spec.b vs. g35 v. 335ix, but here's the kicker: I have a toddler daughter and one on the way, plus own a house built in the 1920's with a one car attached garage, which means it once fit a Model T or Model A great, but not so much anything else!

 

You wondering WTF. Well, that means the g37 and other 2 doors won't work. The garage reference was to let you know that my 2002 ford focus zx5 (don;t laugh, for my last job I just got rid of I had to drive american, and it was the only decent car that fit the garage, plus, with a chip, intake, street header, hi-flo cat, and full cat back exhaust, it'll clean some clocks - especially with the manual and weighing in at only approx 2650#). Anyway, the focus barely fits the garage. All passengers have to get out before I enter the garage, I slide the car in flush on the right hand side, and can still only open the driver's door 2/3's way. Now, the focus is 67" wide in the body and 78" wide mirror-to-mirror. The mirror measurement is used to get in the threshold of the garage, once in, the body measurement becomes important since that determines how much the door will open. I short, if the bmw 335ix fit, I'd a been done. But the new bimmers are portly, coming in at almost 72" in the body alone (that's small suv, or mid size sedan specs there). The lgt is 68 body/79 mirrors, the audi is 69/76. the new merc is 69/78. the infiniti is 68/79. Hell, what I really want is the a6 or e class or 5 series, just no room. oh well.

 

And no, I'm not spending 10K to expand the garage nor am I going the white trash route and parking it on the lawn. The wife has the one car wide driveway with her car, no luck there. And I have nazi neighbors who actually petitioned that our neighborhood have no overnight parking. there was once a referendum to remove that restriction, and the neighbors fought it. I asked why during one neighborhood bbq. they said it would promot crime. I asked how. They said it people would case the houses and park stolen cars there. I retorted that thieves rarely case houses in the middle of the night when people are home and lights out, and that car thieves rarely worry about getting parking tickets. They looked at me like I was some sort of communist. :spin:I gave up.

 

- 777

Mr. Two One,

I guess it really depends on what you want. It looks like you have all the facts, now it comes down to making a decision.

I am in a similar situation as you. I love the looks of the Audi, but when it comes down to it I think you get more for your money with the Spec B. I want a car I can shake down on the back roads and mountain passes that are around my central California town. My J-O-B requires that I have a professional looking (conservative) vehicle that can carry passengers in relative comfort as well. If I could get a 5mt GT w/Navi, I would probably get it. But then I would have to upgarde the suspension to ride to my prefrences and needs. With the Spec B, I get Navi, upgraded street-sport suspension, ugly & heavy 18's (probably not a positive) and all I would really have to do is wisely choose a well matched set of anti-sways to help get rid of the body roll the Leggy's are known for.

My wife recently purchased an '08 tribeca and we absolutely love it. I don't think I could go wrong with a Subi. The choice between a spec B and GT might be hard, but I think the price difference is worth it, especially now with the 6MT's they come with. Thats your call though. One more opinion, I think the Leggy's have better designed pasenger space then the Audi, which again for me, is a major plus.

Have fun maiking your choice!

Laurence

^ Yep. The A4 is significantly slower, less reliable and not as safe. Other than that, it's the King of Cars.

It isn't that much slower. I believe in a Road and Track comparison the A4 beat the sB (they did go on in the article to say if price were a factor the sB would have won). However the A4 does offer some things the sB doesn't such as factory bluetooth, HIDs, your choice of any of the A4 colors with interior color choices just to name a few. As far as reliablity goes.......here comes out the cries about the 00-02 S4 (which is a completely different animal) or ignition coils (circa 02-03). Being an Audi Master Guild tech I can tell you a lot of the Subie boards flame Audi's for past problems that are far behind them. Funny thing is these same boards almost always see past the problems BMW has which actually out number Audi's. Don't even act like subie's don't have their problems too. Audi never had a turbo stutter problem. In 2700 my car needs to have all 4 wheels replaced due to discoloration, a glove box that on one side has about a 3/4-1" gap on one side, and for awhile I had a burning plastic smell coming from my heater, plus I think mine has the stutter that everyone here has been complaining about. So please don't speak about subjects you know little about such as Audi's and reliablity.